[Lore] Era of the Seeds

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Hi. I'm resubmitting a piece of lore I wrote awhile ago. https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/136951-%E2%9C%97-lore-era-of-the-seeds/?page=4

It was conditionally denied on the basis that LT members were going to sit down and work with me to help make it fit into lore. But, they never approached me. So, with changes in the LT lead I'm giving it another shot.

 

Before you judge, I want the LT to know my intention isn't to canonize every minute detail, historical figure and legend. Only to establish the most basic fact: Seeds existed at some point. This will give us groundwork to possibly go out and discover archeological evidence of them ICly and help enrich our RP. The era in which they existed and in what capacity they operated I am completely willing to tweak and adapt to fit into current canon elf lore.

 

With that said I'll simply re-post what was written on my last attempt:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Essentially, I would like This Following Piece of Lore to be adapted into the canonical history of the elves.

If you didn't read the whole thing, I'll sum it up for you.

• From the time of Malin's disappearance and when the mali'ker and mali'aheral split off the main body of elves, to the founding of Laurelin in Aegis, the mali'ame lived in many tribal bands called 'Seeds' which roamed about the forests of ancient Malinor.

 

• These seeds RARELY skirmished with one another and were very un-united, conflicts, when they happened, were rarely bloody

 

• These seeds worshipped the Aspects as their chief dieties, and revered Malin- seeing themselves as the last true followers of his teachings

 

• The ones who held the most influence over the ancient Wood elf seeds were druids, purely wood elven at the time.

 

• Wood elves were capable of great feats of tree farming, growing groves called "ame'llie" where they harvested specially grown trees with special properties (much like one would selectively breed corn, or bananas over thousands of years to make them edible, wood elves would do the same with trees to make their bark/wood softer or harder and etc)

 

• The Era of the Seeds would have been LARGELY PEACEFUL. I put emphasis on Watylls writing, which was during an era of great turbulance, but most of this millenia long era was peaceful, with very little fighting.

 

Please do not refuse to confirm or deny this as canon. I implore the LT to sit down with me and help me implement this into server lore. I have poured many hours into making the wood elves interesting and distinct, culturally, and it means a lot to me. I would appreciate the time, recognition and trust to be let in on at least some that hidden elf lore and have a hand in shaping the playerbase I've worked so hard in building.

 

We're the only major race that lacks a solid "origin story". In fact, we know little to nothing about actual ancient wood elf history, since the lore team keeps it largely secret from us.

 

This is a big deal.

 

It may seem trivial to you, but when a playerbase puts a lot of effort into the history/culture and origins of a place and gets told none of it is canon, it can be seriously demoralizing and can anger them. Look at what happened when Oren was told Aeldin wasn't real, and to RP it as simply a made up story IC. It ruins the point, it takes the fun out of it.

 

Think what a big and important role other race's origin stories and ancient history play into their cultures and day-to-day RP. The Kha and Metzli's creation of them is absolutely integral to their RP. The high elves, with their golden pools which also form a super important part of what gives them personality and differentiates them. The Dwarves, who historically have Khorvad's empire and a ton of rich ancient history lore to base their RP off of.

 

While I don't know how much of ancient orc history is known, they have so much lore behind them in Shamanism (an exclusive racial magic, mostly) and so many spirits and such which gives orc culture builders like ilikefooddude a huge pool of knowledge to enrich his playerbase with, something wood elves simply don't have right now.

 

Knowing your race's ancient origins and history can help immeasurably in enrichening even the most mundane of RP.

 

Now, I know that even if it what we poured our efforts into isn't canon, we could RP the history we've spent so much time fleshing out as "IC belief" (which sucks. see: aeldin), however- it generally means more when we know something actually happened canonically, that we didnt just OOCly invent a bunch of stories so we could have a clumsily thrown together culture, but instead contributed to actually writing a part of server lore, something we can work off of to make our daily RP all the more meaningful.

 

Please don't just instantly shut me down and dismiss this. This means a lot to me and a lot of other wood elf RPers that we be given the means to flesh out our culture more.

 

 

[Nolan_ 4221]

Most properly played Wood Elves use this background anyhow. It's also a good piece of work that I'd like to see officially implemented.

[Your Favorite Impure 734]

Please, if there's any lore that should be accepted, it should be this. Leo and Co. have been working on this for awhile and there has been a great effort put into it over many, many months. It can have all my +1s

[justDEWit 133]

Please add this to our lore, it is well made and you can tell it has been worked upon for a long time. It'd be wrong to NOT accept this lore, considering as the 'Ame race already uses this as a part of life today.

+1, also considering that I'm in a Seed myself.

[Adasinio 120]

I am Adasinio.

 

And I support this message.

[Space 2333]

Is that 'Druids were only Wood Elves at one point' canon? I thought it was just propaganda or whatever.

 

If that hasn't been accepted as canon lore, I think that's better left as something that the lore doesn't deal with so it's ambiguous and can just be dealt with or not dealt with in RP.

 

And as for seeds-- My problem with stuff like this is it's sorta... Historical revisionism. I think it's a lot better to say nothing about this ancient time, so that no player made culture is supported, leave it ambiguous as well. There's no real reason for us to have this lore-- It doesn't clarify anything, it doesn't  give people roleplay, it only legitimizes a player made culture which I think is something that should (and, in the case of the Wood Elves, has been done) in roleplay.

 

Or something.

 

edit- and what i mean by historical revisionism cause i kinda went on a tangent there is 'time of uncertain aspects' to 'this defined time with lore around it.'

[TeaLulu 1783]

Again, my opinion is thus;

 

If you want to have this as accepted lore that occurred for some of the wood elves, then okee dokee. But do not attempt to appropriate, claim, and thusly wholly limit the possibilities of lore for all wood elves. By claiming that "All Mali'ame from ____ onwards did _________," you are limiting the possibilities of creativity in lore for future individuals to create something unique. You can certainly claim, "Some small number of wood elves splintered off into ____ and did ______", but I do not think it is appropriate to ever claim that the entirety of a race did something. That is severely limiting for future lore, eventlines, and storylines.

 

In addition, Druids were never solely wood elves. (I bring this up because Space brought it up). To try and claim that that magic originated and began with wood elves is false and an attempt to appropriate the history of that magic to prove yourself and your IC beliefs right.

 

The attempt to declare and claim the religion of all ancient wood elves is another reason I say this lore is absolutely unacceptable if you want to claim that all wood elves in ancient times followed it.

 

In addition, I would like to know how you plan to have all this information, if accepted, "revealed" to the populace...considering the fact you already preach all of the above IC. How would it be revealed that, oh, look! Somehow, without any RP proof at all, Artimec was right all along!!!! That's just stupid. You can't start roleplaying a belief and then attempt to get it accepted as lore; That's doing it backwards.

 

tl;dr:as long as you keep trying to put all of ancient wood elf lore in your personally controlled little basket of lore that fits what you want people to believe IC, I do not think it should be accepted. Ever.

[Nummy 413]

As a wood elf, no please. 

Its perfectly alright if you want to continue preaching your druid values to the wood elves icly and creating that kind of belief system, which you have. Yet to write it into the history that says "we always did this" is completely wrong. You're effectively trying to change the history of an entire race to suit your characters agenda. If you want the wood elves to have this culture, you've already have it, you've created this icly, there is no practical reason to put this into the history of the entire race. 

This is the equivalent of me playing a High elf paladin, believing that all Mali'aheral should be paladins and should worship xan, and then trying to write lore that said they always did and they never had any other belief system. 

The wood elf race has practically 5 or so years of rp history, most of it not doing with this belief system, to force this upon their history now is wrong. Lulu is right in saying that you can claim that a small section of the woodies went off and did this, which is a possibility, yet to say that all of them is wrong. If it WAS all of them, then all of them would still be under this belief system up to the point where you started preaching and shoving druidism down every woodie's throat. 

brb gonna go write lore that makes all Mali'aheral worship pugs. 

[Dragonslayerelf 653]

TORENA TORENA! +111

[MetaSolaray 242]

Seeing the above arguments I'm going to have to say a middle ground could easily be found. A large portion of the wood elven players who join and go to the main city eventually end up joining the seed system since it's so rich, detailed, and provides a way to be part of a family without having someone being your actual mom and dad. Honestly during when I first joined dark elves and high elves had culture, wood elves had 'we exist'. It was literally a joke and being one of those elves who has odd origins I'd still be willing to adapt, perhaps instead of saying a small portion can it not be an unknown portion it can be believed to be so large that a vast majority of Mali'ame did it (Which the playerbase supports now, as I rarely see wood elves not part of the seed belief system) 

HOWEVER, this does not limit your characters as long as the quantity is never fully stated as factual. 

[Space 2333]

13 minutes ago, MetaSolaray said:

Seeing the above arguments I'm going to have to say a middle ground could easily be found. A large portion of the wood elven players who join and go to the main city eventually end up joining the seed system since it's so rich, detailed, and provides a way to be part of a family without having someone being your actual mom and dad. Honestly during when I first joined dark elves and high elves had culture, wood elves had 'we exist'. It was literally a joke and being one of those elves who has odd origins I'd still be willing to adapt, perhaps instead of saying a small portion can it not be an unknown portion it can be believed to be so large that a vast majority of Mali'ame did it (Which the playerbase supports now, as I rarely see wood elves not part of the seed belief system) 

HOWEVER, this does not limit your characters as long as the quantity is never fully stated as factual. 

 

The happy medium is exactly what is happening right now-- The Laurehlin Elves claim this as history, other Elves can believe it or not, whatever. This lore being accepted doesn't change the current roleplay for the seed system, or anything, in any way, other than putting lore where there doesn't have to be lore.

[Cave_Creature 466]

I fail to see how this would limit roleplay since it is about ancient times, and in reality could be roleplayed as a part of your character or just as easily ignored. By legitimizing it I can only see how it would allow more events (of discovery, ancient magic spirits or old seed artifacts or whatever im not an ET). If it would actually tie anybody's hands in a practical way, let me know how.

Anyway, if the only lore that is accepted is Seeds existed at some point, then there is no drawback for that.

It doesn't have to specify that every wood elf did this (although it would lend some credence to wood elves being a subculture despite having no backstory). Just an opportunity for people to invent more creative backstories for their characters and participate in more roleplay with their fellow woodsies. Yes the culture itself is practiced, but having it be based, in some small way, in truth (as many are) would open up possibilities to make the culture more intriguing.

[Zarsies 6073]

Under review.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

5 hours ago, TeaLulu said:

Again, my opinion is thus;

 

If you want to have this as accepted lore that occurred for some of the wood elves, then okee dokee. But do not attempt to appropriate, claim, and thusly wholly limit the possibilities of lore for all wood elves. By claiming that "All Mali'ame from ____ onwards did _________," you are limiting the possibilities of creativity in lore for future individuals to create something unique. You can certainly claim, "Some small number of wood elves splintered off into ____ and did ______", but I do not think it is appropriate to ever claim that the entirety of a race did something. That is severely limiting for future lore, eventlines, and storylines.

 

In addition, Druids were never solely wood elves. (I bring this up because Space brought it up). To try and claim that that magic originated and began with wood elves is false and an attempt to appropriate the history of that magic to prove yourself and your IC beliefs right.

 

The attempt to declare and claim the religion of all ancient wood elves is another reason I say this lore is absolutely unacceptable if you want to claim that all wood elves in ancient times followed it.

 

In addition, I would like to know how you plan to have all this information, if accepted, "revealed" to the populace...considering the fact you already preach all of the above IC. How would it be revealed that, oh, look! Somehow, without any RP proof at all, Artimec was right all along!!!! That's just stupid. You can't start roleplaying a belief and then attempt to get it accepted as lore; That's doing it backwards.

 

tl;dr:as long as you keep trying to put all of ancient wood elf lore in your personally controlled little basket of lore that fits what you want people to believe IC, I do not think it should be accepted. Ever.

 

If I might just refer you to;

10 hours ago, 吳憾戰士14 said:

Before you judge, I want the LT to know my intention isn't to canonize every minute detail, historical figure and legend. Only to establish the most basic fact: Seeds existed at some point.

 

Not all wood elves need to have been descended from the ancient seeds. You'll note all I want is for them to have existed at some point (not even representing all wood elves at the time, possibly) so we (the group who RPs being descended from them) can canonically go out and find archeological evidence of them. If you want to ignore them, that's perfectly fine. Don't stifle our RP opportunities because of it, either way it won't affect you. You're being a tad self-absorbed, frankly.

 

4 hours ago, Nummy said:

As a wood elf, no please. 

Its perfectly alright if you want to continue preaching your druid values to the wood elves icly and creating that kind of belief system, which you have. Yet to write it into the history that says "we always did this" is completely wrong. You're effectively trying to change the history of an entire race to suit your characters agenda. If you want the wood elves to have this culture, you've already have it, you've created this icly, there is no practical reason to put this into the history of the entire race. 

This is the equivalent of me playing a High elf paladin, believing that all Mali'aheral should be paladins and should worship xan, and then trying to write lore that said they always did and they never had any other belief system. 

The wood elf race has practically 5 or so years of rp history, most of it not doing with this belief system, to force this upon their history now is wrong. Lulu is right in saying that you can claim that a small section of the woodies went off and did this, which is a possibility, yet to say that all of them is wrong. If it WAS all of them, then all of them would still be under this belief system up to the point where you started preaching and shoving druidism down every woodie's throat.

I sense a bit of OOC hostility here given events that transpired in RP. Especially since you've completely missed the point.

 

Making the ancient Seeds canon doesn't in any way force all wood elves to follow the culture I've built? I fail to see how that correlates? Ultimately it's an IC choice, whatever is canon.

 

"This is the equivalent of me playing a High elf paladin, believing that all Mali'aheral should be paladins and should worship xan, and then trying to write lore that said they always did and they never had any other belief system. "

 

I mean...seriously? Have you read my post? I have stated that all I want is for the Ancient Seeds to at one point have existed, All other facts/details remaining purposefully vague and undiscovered. At no point did I say I was forcing it on everyone who RP'd a wood elf, and there are plenty of options for you to go down still for your wood elf characters history if you don't want to go down that route.

[Zarsies 6073]

This lore has been denied. Should you have any questions as to why, please refer to private messages.