Your View: Warzones

[El Ricktador 1394]

58 minutes ago, Arctic_Guard said:

Oh **** no. Why are people trying to make this server a safe space? I enjoy going to warzones on my offtime when there isn't anything else to do due to a lack of events or stagnant and stale rp from cookie cutter personas. Why limit the amount of people even? It's bad enough that you've limited raids down to three people! And god forbid we consider any villainy with two people or more to be a raid these days. Why even consider making people sit around in a warzone for an hour of their time doing absolutely nothing. Why would you even consider making the capture point timed again? That was the most garbage idea I've seen be put into play in the warzone scene. People hopping on at midnight to capture the point and hold it over night. Ninja captures and hiding from all the battles that really should matter. Honestly people have better things to do than sit around at a capture point for an hour or even hop on to recapture or fend off a 3 man party performing ninja captures with absolutely no gear what so ever. Why ban horses either??? Why do we even have them if you can't do anything else with them. Use them for travel? Traveling doesn't even exist anymore with fast travels. The only other thing would be to use it in your 3 verses 50 raiding party which you can't even raid during warzones which limits horse usage even more!

I bet more than half of the votes are from people who never even go to warzones or do any pvp of any kind on this server. "Oh would you look at the obvious pvp hungry lotc player over here!" You can choose to dislike pvp on lotc, but don't outright kill it. Thanks.

 

He's not talking about limiting players in the warzones. He's talking about potentially limiting horses if horses are allowed in the warzone.

[ryno2 1285]

the emerging problem of warzones is that people don't want to go unless they have to for the sake of a warzone bonus, and even then only go for the minimum time required. So when there isn't a bonus, you have people going in with no armor and stone weapons as a meme. When there is, you have one side (see: oren) go from a handful to 40-50 dudes, get the point for the day, then leave, which isn't much fun since the opposition doesn't have much time to whittle them down before it's too late. 

The reluctance of going to the warzone with gear is because of the relative scarcity of gear from nexus professions: gear can only be made by a blacksmith, so people are far less willing to risk losing it because of the inherent difficulty in making it compared to vanilla minecraft. Contrast this with Anthos and the Fringe when crafting was vanilla and all gear was identical, and pvp in the "warzones" of the time was much more frequent and, by many accounts, more enjoyable. 

so some of the problem extends past warzones themselves

[cablam 477]

47 minutes ago, El Ricktador said:

 

He's not talking about limiting players in the warzones. He's talking about potentially limiting horses if horses are allowed in the warzone.

^ This

 

1 hour ago, Arctic_Guard said:

-Snip-

The timer will only be active during a set period of time, for example, 5 pm EST - 6 pm EST, in order to avoid the whole capping at midnight issue.

[Naj 545]

I'm for exploring alternatives to the one time capping issue I'd prefer more prolonged bits of combat. They're a lot more fun and could allow for a more consistent and accurate result from combat than just a wave once a day.

 

As for the whole 8-0 Oren thing. I won't say that the reason for it is the system. Its not. Oren beat our side's forces on multiple occasions fair and square. However, in the midst of PvP having the entirety of the Oregonian force come and go in 20 minutes isn't fun at all its not battle s or war zone its capping a point and leaving.

 

Shortest game of domination 

 

So yea lets try it out if majority believes its a good idea.

[Birdnerdy 1539]

6 hours ago, SquirtGun said:

I despise the current systems 'At this time the point counts'.

 

Everyone has seen it, 15mins before 6PM tons of people log in, status up, are online for 15mins, then peace out. And that's suppose to show their force in maintaining their war front?

 

I'd rather it go to the extreme of it being a constant and continuous thing 24/7 then a single set point. 

 

War is meant to be rply long.

War is meant to spread troops out.

Warfronts are meant to be maintained.

 

Wives and families are meant not to see their husbands and sons for extended periods of time.

Economy is suppose to suffer due to the main working force (men) being out at war.

Food and supplies are meant to become scarce. 

 

 

None of this happens because of the current system. 

 

There's no openings when one sides troops are marching and stationed elsewhere. 

There's no tactical smarts when you can't plan on the enemy moving their troops and attacking an unguarded city.

 

Players simply log in, do their job, log out. There's a minimal RP and OOC backlash for players and their characters to go to war, which could be so much more if it is played out to be so.

 

Families missing their family members, RP at war fronts, building siege camps, enemies sabotaging siege camps, gathering rations, scheduled resource shipments to the warfront that can be ambushed to give the other side a disadvantage. 

 

Do all the troops go to the warzone and station there to secure the point totally while they leave themselves open for raids on their towns and people?

 

But Squirt, people don't want to have to sit in a warzone for so long?! It gets boring! - Think twice about going to war, war isn't meant to be fun its meant to be a hardship, even for the attacking side.

 

But Squirt, there's no RP at the warzone! - use some of the suggestions I threw up above within a few minutes to create RP there. Don't give pre built warzone stations. Let players build them (within reason) during the warzone. Let enemies attack and try to sabotage. Let them slow down progress. Let them have tactics meetings in the warzone. There's really a lot of potential that warzone could bring other than just Spam Click, and that still can happen outside in the open warzone battle field. This isn't taking away from mindless PvP, its adding RP to it. 

 

But Squirt, I can't stay up til the late hours of the night to defend the point! They'll take it! - Well, thats a weakness on your side. Maintain it while you can, put your effort where you can. Consider the time you can't be on the enemies successful attacks against your side. War isn't won by one person or one small group, it should be a national effort. If you can't facilitate the numbers of your nation to defend a point, should your nation be at war?

 

Like I said, I'm the extreme but I think there's changes that can be made to add RP to the OOCness of War that are being overlooked.

I think you have too much faith in the energy and time commitment of most LOTC players. In my experience, roleplay activity hits rock bottom during serious wartime, not because our systems don't allow it, but rather because war is draining on an ooc level. 

 

When I'm at war, and I think I speak for a lot of players here, my main focus is on keeping constant pressure on the faction I'm fighting through pvp, grinding out nexus items to equip my soldiers and making sure none of them get killed and lose our hard earned pixel goods. With our shitty war rules and the lowbrow tactics that people sink to to win, wars are also accompanied by far too many ban reports and drama. 

 

As they are, pitched wars are time consuming enough. If the war team implements what you're suggesting here, it could add potential hours of obligatory attention to the war. You're right, the cost of war isn't rped very heavily, but that's because 90% of all conflict in war is settled through pvp, which very few people use as a vessel for potential rp except to brag about the kills they got.

 

A 24/7 war zone would encourage people to spend far too much time every day camping the same stretch of land. It benefits those who are willing to spend the vast majority of their waking hours on a minecraft server, or "no lifers," as we casuals call them. 

 

Until we change the way we settle conflicts on lotc, every warzone will be solely focused on pvp, not roleplay, so unless we fundamentally change LOTC's combat rules (wish we would), I don't see any of your ideas working in practice.

 

 

[colovian fur 8360]

7 hours ago, SquirtGun said:

I despise the current systems 'At this time the point counts'.

 

Everyone has seen it, 15mins before 6PM tons of people log in, status up, are online for 15mins, then peace out. And that's suppose to show their force in maintaining their war front?

 

I'd rather it go to the extreme of it being a constant and continuous thing 24/7 then a single set point. 

 

War is meant to be rply long.

War is meant to spread troops out.

Warfronts are meant to be maintained.

 

Wives and families are meant not to see their husbands and sons for extended periods of time.

Economy is suppose to suffer due to the main working force (men) being out at war.

Food and supplies are meant to become scarce. 

 

 

None of this happens because of the current system. 

 

There's no openings when one sides troops are marching and stationed elsewhere. 

There's no tactical smarts when you can't plan on the enemy moving their troops and attacking an unguarded city.

 

Players simply log in, do their job, log out. There's a minimal RP and OOC backlash for players and their characters to go to war, which could be so much more if it is played out to be so.

 

Families missing their family members, RP at war fronts, building siege camps, enemies sabotaging siege camps, gathering rations, scheduled resource shipments to the warfront that can be ambushed to give the other side a disadvantage. 

 

Do all the troops go to the warzone and station there to secure the point totally while they leave themselves open for raids on their towns and people?

 

But Squirt, people don't want to have to sit in a warzone for so long?! It gets boring! - Think twice about going to war, war isn't meant to be fun its meant to be a hardship, even for the attacking side.

 

But Squirt, there's no RP at the warzone! - use some of the suggestions I threw up above within a few minutes to create RP there. Don't give pre built warzone stations. Let players build them (within reason) during the warzone. Let enemies attack and try to sabotage. Let them slow down progress. Let them have tactics meetings in the warzone. There's really a lot of potential that warzone could bring other than just Spam Click, and that still can happen outside in the open warzone battle field. This isn't taking away from mindless PvP, its adding RP to it. 

 

But Squirt, I can't stay up til the late hours of the night to defend the point! They'll take it! - Well, thats a weakness on your side. Maintain it while you can, put your effort where you can. Consider the time you can't be on the enemies successful attacks against your side. War isn't won by one person or one small group, it should be a national effort. If you can't facilitate the numbers of your nation to defend a point, should your nation be at war?

 

Like I said, I'm the extreme but I think there's changes that can be made to add RP to the OOCness of War that are being overlooked.

>When Sutica tries to comment on war

[seannie 7443]

this could all be fixed

 

 

 

 

by the removal of nexus

[Bvie 1754]

7 minutes ago, joey calabreeni said:

>When Sutica tries to comment on war

^

It's my view, not 'Suticas' as many Suticans are constant partakers on their alts for both sides.

 

As for the basis of my view:

 

I experienced the OOC aspect of war starting back in Vanderguan and the Axis wars of Vailor. I disliked it.

 

Being spammed on Skype while taking a midterm with OOC threats wasn't fun.

And trying to encourage a single RP meeting to make any of it non-meta wasn't fun either.

 

I still experience the OOC aspect of war and have been involved as 'Sutica' in the recent Axios wars.

 

Still being spammed on Skype a year later and getting OOC threats still isn't fun.

And trying to encourage s ingle RP meeting to make any of it non-meta still isn't fun.

 

Which is why I'd, personally, like to see the RP potential of a war actually utilized, to off-set some of the OOC drama with interesting and meaningful/impactful RP events.

 

I see no harm in trying to encourage more RP and more PvP events that can impact the war than simply the war zone such as defending a resource shipment, protecting a courier with tactical  information, allowing warzone progress to affect the state of their warzone base, hostage exchanges, and the such. All which could be supported by a War Event Team, creating RP in citys and on the battle field, while orienting them to be PvP 

 

I may not be a big war person and I did give extreme examples (I myself said they were extreme, twice, within the post at the beginning and at the end). But I feel there is some RP potential for all (even those that don't fight and stay in cities to impact the war) in War and it might be something that could benefit the server, both RPers and PvPers alike.

[lawnmowerman 3040]

I like the current system because more people usually show up if there is a specific time and rally, rather then having troops camp it 24/7.

[Chef891 232]

What would be cool in my eyes would be doing your capture timer but doing it more than once a day. some people cant get on at certain times due to school or work and it would be cool if, for example you would have a capture point timer in the morning around like 11 am est, one in the afternoon or early evening at like 5pm est and on late at night like at 11 pm est. And to sucure the point for the day you would have to win 2 of the 3 battles times to secure the point for the day. that way everyone would be able to get a chance to participate in the warzone. and people wouldnt have to be there at a specific time and only that time. like for example again, Europeans and americans not having to stretch their sleep schedules just to be at the warzone for 15-20 mins each day. i get it that not alot of people are on early in the morning or late at night but this gives the people who are on a chance to enjoy the warzone when they generally cant. I for one can say that i dont get to enjoy warzones or war claims for that matter because i have to juggle working fulltime. i do enjoy the server and would love to partake in the warzone/warclaims but never am available to do such since i work from early afternoon to close to late at night. i can only get on at a certain time of the day, which makes it hard for me to actually participate in the fun times of a warzone/warclaim.

[cablam 477]

3 hours ago, Gucko said:

I like the current system because more people usually show up if there is a specific time and rally, rather then having troops camp it 24/7.

The proposal isn't to make it 24/7. It will be so the timer will only run throughout a short period of time starting at a predetermined time that is best for both sides.

 

3 hours ago, Aeldrin said:

-Snip-

So what would you suggest to fix the current system? Its not always super easy to fix as people will Min-Max, or get the most for the least effort, case in point the most recent warzone. If we implement it and make it an all day thing people will complain about having to be in the warzone 24/7, not being able to RP and losing sleep, not doing homework, etc. in order to show up to the warzone. I am curious as to any ways you think this dilemma can be solved. 

 

58 minutes ago, Masterchef89 said:

-Snip-

I quite like this idea, I'll keep it in mind. 

 

 

[KeatonUnbeaten 1103]

14 hours ago, SquirtGun said:

^

It's my view, not 'Suticas' as many Suticans are constant partakers on their alts for both sides.

 

As for the basis of my view:

 

I experienced the OOC aspect of war starting back in Vanderguan and the Axis wars of Vailor. I disliked it.

 

Being spammed on Skype while taking a midterm with OOC threats wasn't fun.

And trying to encourage a single RP meeting to make any of it non-meta wasn't fun either.

 

I still experience the OOC aspect of war and have been involved as 'Sutica' in the recent Axios wars.

 

Still being spammed on Skype a year later and getting OOC threats still isn't fun.

And trying to encourage s ingle RP meeting to make any of it non-meta still isn't fun.

 

Which is why I'd, personally, like to see the RP potential of a war actually utilized, to off-set some of the OOC drama with interesting and meaningful/impactful RP events.

 

I see no harm in trying to encourage more RP and more PvP events that can impact the war than simply the war zone such as defending a resource shipment, protecting a courier with tactical  information, allowing warzone progress to affect the state of their warzone base, hostage exchanges, and the such. All which could be supported by a War Event Team, creating RP in citys and on the battle field, while orienting them to be PvP 

 

I may not be a big war person and I did give extreme examples (I myself said they were extreme, twice, within the post at the beginning and at the end). But I feel there is some RP potential for all (even those that don't fight and stay in cities to impact the war) in War and it might be something that could benefit the server, both RPers and PvPers alike.

I see ElvenMage PVPing all the time (and I used to see Dewlox PVPing) and both of them were Sutican. Don't know what Kincaid is on about when he says:

 

15 hours ago, joey calabreeni said:

>When Sutica tries to comment on war

 

[Murdervish 308]

The current system makes the warzone into a mini-warclaim system with some minor pvp throughout the day. Having it timed out just sounds like making them into actual minor warclaims, and since the points purpose add to a benefit into the warclaims themselves, it makes the whole process rather redundant. Further, it's sometimes already an issue getting GMs on top of monitoring warclaims. Now, there'd need to basically be one monitoring the same thing an hour every day.

 

Honestly, if you feel that the points system is too hard to make fair or useful, then forego it entirely and just have a warzone for people to run and get their pvp rocks off and steal gear from each other without having to worry about raid cooldowns (since that's it's current usage, anyway, 23 hours out of the day).

[OpaqueGlass 17]

22 hours ago, ryno2 said:

the emerging problem of warzones is that people don't want to go unless they have to for the sake of a warzone bonus, and even then only go for the minimum time required. So when there isn't a bonus, you have people going in with no armor and stone weapons as a meme. When there is, you have one side (see: oren) go from a handful to 40-50 dudes, get the point for the day, then leave, which isn't much fun since the opposition doesn't have much time to whittle them down before it's too late. 

The reluctance of going to the warzone with gear is because of the relative scarcity of gear from nexus professions: gear can only be made by a blacksmith, so people are far less willing to risk losing it because of the inherent difficulty in making it compared to vanilla minecraft. Contrast this with Anthos and the Fringe when crafting was vanilla and all gear was identical, and pvp in the "warzones" of the time was much more frequent and, by many accounts, more enjoyable. 

so some of the problem extends past warzones themselves

I don't post much on the forum, and I may be completely wrong, so please don't rip me to shreds if I am. But isn't lord of the craft supposed to be realistic? And in real life, not any old fightin' foo can make there armor, shouldn't nations have a few blacksmiths to do this for them? And create a lot of armor?

[ryno2 1285]

1 minute ago, OpaqueGlass said:

I don't post much on the forum, and I may be completely wrong, so please don't rip me to shreds if I am. But isn't lord of the craft supposed to be realistic? And in real life, not any old fightin' foo can make there armor, shouldn't nations have a few blacksmiths to do this for them? And create a lot of armor?

it depends on what you think the realism : mechanical convenience ratio on the server should be; when players can make their own gear quickly, losing it in a fight isn't so big a deal, but when only certain players can make it and it takes time, it's more precious, so people are less willing to get in a fight because they don't want to waste that time investment. I'm not advocating for this, just pointing out the reality