Your View: Coups and Regions

[argonian 14254]

12 minutes ago, Jistuma said:

I'll just try to answer all as best I can. Unless the sleeper cells are big enough to think they can keep back a full guard force going at them for three days, then I would believe they would have enough members that joined the town to actually make a coup. What could happen, is players abusing this to get power in smaller towns and the like. Also, as far as I know, that way of screwing coupers over would actually need the people to know about the coup. Part of it being a coup is that it's unexpected.

All you'd need is to infiltrate the local guard force. Guard forces are usually small enough and full of noobs that all infiltrators would have to do is appear half-competent to become really high ranks. Then they can recruit more infiltrators and pretty soon you control the guardforce.

[Jistuma 1996]

10 minutes ago, James2k said:

All you'd need is to infiltrate the local guard force. Guard forces are usually small enough and full of noobs that all infiltrators would have to do is appear half-competent to become really high ranks. Then they can recruit more infiltrators and pretty soon you control the guardforce.

That actually sounds like pretty good roleplay. Would also take a few months to happen.

[zaezae 1098]

Just convert region owners into region trusts with the only responsibility of being a proper steward of the minecraft build. Anything that does not fit that description is grounds for removal. Region trust does not have to be a IRP leader of whoever lives there. 

 

Separate IRP leadership with OOC stewardship.

[VonEbs 1224]

Wouldn't a simple way to avoid an rp coup succeeding if supported by a majority of region owners be to kick people off the region if you suspected them of being involved? Seems like a gigantic headache to me.

[EmbryoGod 823]

Well Israel funded a **** ton of settlements in Palestine that eventually became Israeli land. I don't think Isreal and Palestine had to go to a GM to get the locks removed/build rights.

[Tirenas 677]

I believe that, provided there is consistency, coups are a basis of dynamic RP and important to be held as an available option. To suggest that the only forceful method of acquiring a region from a primary region-owner is through a war-claim is odd. Coups are meant to be a test of the primary region owner's available national manpower and of his/her right to rule, though I do recognize that this isn't always clear cut.

[Radu 58]

put a warzone on the area being coup'd

 

winner of the warzone wins .

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

mean I'm an advocate of eve online tier coup systems where ur city is theoretically open during a certain window of time but

 

carebears cant stomach that so

[Heff 2460]

coups to gain region control with proper rp. if a region owner can just say "ok, you killed me now leave, raiders." it absolutely murders RP

[Fimlin 1997]

Coups are obviously harder to determine however it could be done like this, 

-Must occupy the region for a set amount of hours (EXCLUDING LOW POP. TIMES OBVIOUSLY)

-Must have a larger force occupying than the force rallied against it at the time of the last hour (if theres none then duh)

     -This still allows a smaller force to occupy and coup a place but it means they have to defeat the enemy force (a balance between popular support and military might)

-Get one less hour if a region owner is part of the coup (stacks)

 

As for Region owners, Region owner has never meant that everyone is necessarily an actual owner, and instead is often used to help when the main ruler is offline so I believe this:

-RP Ruler must be stated for every region during creation (or in this case basically a information-obtaining spree for the current regions) 

    -Nation leaders are always the RP ruler of the nation capital

    -Works like the feudal system, a nation leader is not main owner in a vassal's region

    -Documenting the rp region owner could be done in the form of a google doc (which wouldn't be horrible to maintain considering the amount of people in the staff who can make regions) or a sign locked by a staff member at say the northwest corner at bedrock level (or a glass block at the top of the sky)

   -ET/Staff regions do not have a region owner and are 'ruled' by the staff (can't rebel from an ET/Staff area)

 

Obviously I left some loopholes because there is no plugin to monitor this yet but I tried to give ideas

[Suika 111]

8 hours ago, Whiplash said:

My opinion on the matter, like it or not, is so:

 

You shouldn't be able to get on in the dead hours of the night (At least on the Eastern Seaboard of the United States,) and immediately pull a region under someone's feet. The whole @Babadooks fiasco was one thing, he should've logged off, but it's obvious that what happened was a region snipe. You can't just get a region in minutes after PMing a GM "oh hey we took the region can you remove the other guy from perms". It's a blantant breaking of the rules. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

Oren's gaining of control of over Haelun'or was also a coup. The Silver Council (Heial'thilln) lost region ownership to Oren over night as well, what Parion did by giving region ownership to Oren was also a coup because he caused the Silver Council (the ruling entity) to lose the region to Oren:

 

 

Spoiler

 

According to Haelun’or law, before it was overwritten by the Orenians, the Silver Council (Heial'thilln) was the primary ruling entity. The Sohaer had but one vote in any Class 1 motion. Quoting the previous laws of Haelun’or:

 

The Heial'thilln [ruling entity] shall consist of:

 

- The Sohaer, whose single vote serves as a tiebreaker.

- The Maheral, who is consulted for matters of tradition.

- Four Okariran, allowed to cast or withhold a single vote.

- Sulii'ceru, who is granted no votes, but special privileges.”

“It shall be within the duties of the council to… vote upon and pass any tir’niut"

“To discuss any tir'oem and release these to the public for referendum upon previously mentioned and defined request.”

 

“Class one laws (tir’oem) include:

 

The creating or breaking of treaties, trade agreements or embargos, The declaration of war. Any major reformations of the city encompassing at least thirty ..percent of available space or twenty of occupied space….

Any laws that account for a policy or disposition change of the entire subrace towards any affair, be it internal or external”

“It shall be within the duties of the council to… vote upon and pass any tir’niut"

 

 

It is apparent in these laws that the Sohaer has but one vote in any Class 1 law motion, furthermore it is within the council’s jurisdiction to vote on the removal or change of any of the tir’oem laws; the new laws that are currently posted in the High Elf subforum are not laws, they are mere musings as they were never voted on by the council.

 

Evidently the Sohaer did not have any more authority to hand over primary region ownership than a random citizen in your city claiming that your nation suddenly belongs to Oren. Primary region ownership belongs to the Council.

 

The invasion of Orenians into our streets, and the land that they have been given by Parion, which accounts for over 30% of the land is hereby deemed illegally aquired according to the law: “...major reformations of the city encompassing at least thirty ..percent of available space or twenty of occupied space….”

 

It is acknowledged that Oren has illegally acquired these lands that belong to the city of Haelun’or and belong to Council.

 

 

 

[Glasiconas 111]

While I get that it's more recent, and therefore being discussed more, the Felsen coup holds much more relevance to the discussion of power grabs than the Haelun'or one. To me, the build up and slow seizure of offices leading to the coup make it the prototype which others should follow from here on out.

[Reno 239]

18 hours ago, Shroud said:

I think that for coups, everyone should get slaughtered at a wedding while a catchy song is played and the Stauntons send their regards.
 

 

 

+ ******* 1 

[Guest ANONFLASH THE GOD CHILD]

I concur with Charoodler on this matter. Regions are mere OOC constructs designed to stop unwanted building or griefing and should not be used to influence roleplay. If someone wants to start a coup, it should be completely handles through roleplay.

 

 

 

We just need to stop overcomplicating regions and everything else on LoTC with useless bureaucracy and start thinking about what the majority of the server actually wants. We can't keep catering to every minority on the server because that's not an efficient way to operate. There shouldn't be dumb votes like "Should we add guns", everyone votes no, and then all of a sudden there's a magical itemat's basically a gun and the explanation is "Well most people didn't want it so why can't we have it???" Another prime example of staff trying to "fix lotc" is readding magic applications and villain applications, something that pretty much nobody was asking for. To be quite honest, the most effective way to manage LoTC is probably to just handle important decisions via player voting akin to Old School Runescape since that's the easiest way I can think of to prevent staff corruption and give the players the power they deserve.

 

[Cloakedsphere 1471]

10 hours ago, Heff said:

coups to gain region control with proper rp. if a region owner can just say "ok, you killed me now leave, raiders." it absolutely murders RP

What do you say to the guy who just bought his first settlement for what ever amount and the next day someone comes by and performs a coup? You just tell him tough ****? Y'all act before you think. Which is honestly a huge problem for this server. If everyone took a few extra minutes to think about results for their actions, we wouldnt have a lot of problems.