Your View: Coups and Regions

[Glasiconas 111]

49 minutes ago, Supremacy said:

I feel like if the MAJORITY of the players from a region support you— that's sufficient. If you're not the majority-leader, then you're raiding.

There's considerable grey-area there, unless someone goes around polling all the members of a region. Especially given the side-switching likely to occur in such events.

[Kaelan 1918]

I feel like for everyone's sake, there should be an OOC chat made between rebels and region owners that are being couped to discuss how things will work and if it's possible. With GMs in the chat as well. It'll be case by case.

 

It'll prevent late night coups when no one is on as times can be agreed upon. There's nothing worse than to log on and find you've been removed from your region because someone else took control over it in the middle of the night. You basically just lost your home without you being able to defend yourself.

 

It'll also allow for an agreement on raid rules which can be troublesome. You have twenty players supporting you, but you can only send four to coup an entire city... A chat would allow for an agreement to be made so we don't end up with what happened to aerial.

 

And finally, it would allow both sides to present Rp and show evidence of rp planning and such before it takes place. So we can ensure that this is actual dynamic RP and not just OOC driven.

[Whiplash 466]

My opinion on the matter, like it or not, is so:

 

You shouldn't be able to get on in the dead hours of the night (At least on the Eastern Seaboard of the United States,) and immediately pull a region under someone's feet. The whole @Babadooks fiasco was one thing, he should've logged off, but it's obvious that what happened was a region snipe. You can't just get a region in minutes after PMing a GM "oh hey we took the region can you remove the other guy from perms". It's a blantant breaking of the rules. That's all I'm going to say on the matter.

[Jistuma 1996]

Here's my opinion on how the actual rules should be:

 

Coups

A coup is an unexpected forceful change of leadership of a settlement.

 

- Only residents or people in power in a settlement may try to coordenate and lead a coup.

- Outside help in the coup is limited to 5 players. Outside help means any members that aren't residents of that settlement.

- A coup has to be done at peek times, and a post must be done if the first take over is successful.

- No region members or owners or locks (besides those to enter the town or open/close the gates) may be removed from the settlement until the coup is finalized.

- For a coup to be finalized, those that did the coup must defend for three days on peek times. To defend, any resident and 5 players from an outside source may help.

- To regain the settlement from a coup before it's finalized, any resident and 5 players from an outside source have to clear the forces in that settlement at peek times.

- If the coup is finalized, it can only be recovered by another coup or by a warclaim.

- There can only be one coup per month per settlement.

- Abuse of region permissions, or owner permission during the coup is not allowed. This includes adding or removing more players to the perms, using the perms to bypass defences, create un-entrable builds, or creating new entrances.

 

 

What do you guys think?

I don't think I would need to write that things should be done in roleplay (with pvp at the correct times).

 

Edit:

Other things I remembered but that I don't know if they should be added.

- Minimum amount of players for a coup to happen is 5, of which at least 3 have to be residents.

- A take over is successful when the gates are controlled and the current leader is captured or pushed out of town. In case of innactivity of the current leader, he must be offline for at least 3 days. If the leader doesn't log in at peek times, a talk about the coup must had with a GM about the problem before the coup happens.

[Mj. 697]

14 minutes ago, Jistuma said:

Here's my opinion on how the actual rules should be:

 

Coups

A coup is an unexpected forceful change of leadership of a settlement.

 

- Only residents or people in power in a settlement may try to coordenate and lead a coup.

- Outside help in the coup is limited to 5 players. Outside help means any members that aren't residents of that settlement.

- A coup has to be done at peek times, and a post must be done if the first take over is successful.

- No region members or owners or locks (besides those to enter the town or open/close the gates) may be removed from the settlement until the coup is finalized.

- For a coup to be finalized, those that did the coup must defend for three days on peek times. To defend, any resident and 5 players from an outside source may help.

- To regain the settlement from a coup before it's finalized, any resident and 5 players from an outside source have to clear the forces in that settlement at peek times.

- If the coup is finalized, it can only be recovered by another coup or by a warclaim.

- There can only be one coup per month per settlement.

- Abuse of region permissions, or owner permission during the coup is not allowed. This includes adding or removing more players to the perms, using the perms to bypass defences, create un-entrable builds, or creating new entrances.

 

 

What do you guys think?

I don't think I would need to write that things should be done in roleplay (with pvp at the correct times).

 

Edit:

Other things I remembered but that I don't know if they should be added.

- Minimum amount of players for a coup to happen is 5, of which at least 3 have to be residents.

- A take over is successful when the gates are controlled and the current leader is captured or pushed out of town. In case of innactivity of the current leader, he must be offline for at least 3 days. If the leader doesn't log in at peek times, a talk about the coup must had with a GM about the problem before the coup happens.

Quite honestly your post is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. You're saying 5 guys, three of which have to be residents, have to defend the city for three days straight at peak times? You're literally asking for 5 guys to hold off an entire army three days in a row, for hours on end. Realistically, the couping force could bring as many outside allies as it wanted to secure the city.

 

Edit: Also, what if the leader logs on for 10 or 20 minutes then disappears, but he does that everyday therefor you can't catch him nor is he active.

[Jistuma 1996]

37 minutes ago, Mj. said:

Quite honestly your post is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. You're saying 5 guys, three of which have to be residents, have to defend the city for three days straight at peak times? You're literally asking for 5 guys to hold off an entire army three days in a row, for hours on end. Realistically, the couping force could bring as many outside allies as it wanted to secure the city.

No, I said Minimum... That means at least 5 people have to do the coup, or you could have coups of 3 or 4 people. If you read it I said:

 

52 minutes ago, Jistuma said:

- Minimum amount of players for a coup to happen is 5, of which at least 3 have to be residents.

 

52 minutes ago, Jistuma said:

 

- For a coup to be finalized, those that did the coup must defend for three days on peek times. To defend, any resident and 5 players from an outside source may help.

- To regain the settlement from a coup before it's finalized, any resident and 5 players from an outside source have to clear the forces in that settlement at peek times.

 

This means, the ones doing the coup have to be residents (which have to go from 3 to can be like 50) + 5 outsiders, and the ones trying to fight back the coup have to be residents (which can go from 0 to like 50) + 5 outsiders.

 

I do say in the rules that outsiders have to be max 5, because if more it's like you said, an entire army. If an army is coming, it needs a warclaim in my opinion. If the people of the town don't want to help out with overthrowing the coup, then they want the coup. It would make coups actual towns rebelling against the leadership, instead of letting an outside army inside a town. That would happen after the coup.

 

Edit:

37 minutes ago, Mj. said:

Edit: Also, what if the leader logs on for 10 or 20 minutes then disappears, but he does that everyday therefor you can't catch him nor is he active.

 

Well, you can see how much time a player played last week. So... I assume it could be seen as innactive if he hadn't played even 1 hour or something like that.

[Mj. 697]

@Jistuma so ur saying both sides can only bring 5 outsiders

[Jistuma 1996]

2 minutes ago, Mj. said:

@Jistuma so ur saying both sides can only bring 5 outsiders

Ye, considering both sides are part of the same settlement (those overthrowing the leader, and the leader that is being overthrown).

 

Edit: I just remembered that this might be used as a way to bring more people to a raid, since unlawful raid is 3 (as said in the rules). Though 3 people from outside to help keep or to help destroy a coup seem very small amount.

[Mj. 697]

5 minutes ago, Jistuma said:

Ye, considering both sides are part of the same settlement (those overthrowing the leader, and the leader that is being overthrown).

 

Edit: I just remembered that this might be used as a way to bring more people to a raid, since unlawful raid is 3 (as said in the rules). Though 3 people from outside to help keep or to help destroy a coup seem very small amount.

Agreed, limit outside help equally 

[Wendigo 786]

1 hour ago, Jistuma said:

Here's my opinion on how the actual rules should be:

 

Coups

A coup is an unexpected forceful change of leadership of a settlement.

 

- Only residents or people in power in a settlement may try to coordenate and lead a coup.

- Outside help in the coup is limited to 5 players. Outside help means any members that aren't residents of that settlement.

- A coup has to be done at peek times, and a post must be done if the first take over is successful.

- No region members or owners or locks (besides those to enter the town or open/close the gates) may be removed from the settlement until the coup is finalized.

- For a coup to be finalized, those that did the coup must defend for three days on peek times. To defend, any resident and 5 players from an outside source may help.

- To regain the settlement from a coup before it's finalized, any resident and 5 players from an outside source have to clear the forces in that settlement at peek times.

- If the coup is finalized, it can only be recovered by another coup or by a warclaim.

- There can only be one coup per month per settlement.

- Abuse of region permissions, or owner permission during the coup is not allowed. This includes adding or removing more players to the perms, using the perms to bypass defences, create un-entrable builds, or creating new entrances.

- Minimum amount of players for a coup to happen is 5, of which at least 3 have to be residents.

- A take over is successful when the gates are controlled and the current leader is captured or pushed out of town. In case of innactivity of the current leader, he must be offline for at least 3 days. If the leader doesn't log in at peek times, a talk about the coup must had with a GM about the problem before the coup happens.

It's a good start. Coups for the most part are internal affairs with small to minimal outside assistance(IE Internal strife or conflict...DUH). Your rules seem just and fair at a glance/read but I'm sure there will be something, or a loophole, etc for people to abuse/complain about. The only thing is it would still be a case by case basis on the definition of 'peak times'.

[Flapman 625]

1 hour ago, Jistuma said:

Here's my opinion on how the actual rules should be:

 

Coups

A coup is an unexpected forceful change of leadership of a settlement.

 

- Only residents or people in power in a settlement may try to coordenate and lead a coup.

- Outside help in the coup is limited to 5 players. Outside help means any members that aren't residents of that settlement.

- A coup has to be done at peek times, and a post must be done if the first take over is successful.

- No region members or owners or locks (besides those to enter the town or open/close the gates) may be removed from the settlement until the coup is finalized.

- For a coup to be finalized, those that did the coup must defend for three days on peek times. To defend, any resident and 5 players from an outside source may help.

- To regain the settlement from a coup before it's finalized, any resident and 5 players from an outside source have to clear the forces in that settlement at peek times.

- If the coup is finalized, it can only be recovered by another coup or by a warclaim.

- There can only be one coup per month per settlement.

- Abuse of region permissions, or owner permission during the coup is not allowed. This includes adding or removing more players to the perms, using the perms to bypass defences, create un-entrable builds, or creating new entrances.

 

 

What do you guys think?

I don't think I would need to write that things should be done in roleplay (with pvp at the correct times).

 

Edit:

Other things I remembered but that I don't know if they should be added.

- Minimum amount of players for a coup to happen is 5, of which at least 3 have to be residents.

- A take over is successful when the gates are controlled and the current leader is captured or pushed out of town. In case of innactivity of the current leader, he must be offline for at least 3 days. If the leader doesn't log in at peek times, a talk about the coup must had with a GM about the problem before the coup happens.

 

This will just encourage more ooc paranoia and people trying to infiltrate regions through alts. Also it would not make sense that close allies wouldn't be able to help in stopping the coup. I think it's a nice and detailed idea, but I think it will be awful when implemented.

[argonian 14254]

30 minutes ago, Flapman said:

 

This will just encourage more ooc paranoia and people trying to infiltrate regions through alts. Also it would not make sense that close allies wouldn't be able to help in stopping the coup. I think it's a nice and detailed idea, but I think it will be awful when implemented.

Yeah, we've enough sleeper cells as it is. And there'd be a lot of controversy about who counts as a resident. Do you have to own a home? What if you live in a family home or a barracks? Or if you're renting a room in a tavern? Are you no longer a resident the second you get evicted(this'd allow those defenders against the coup a nice way of screwing the coupers over)?

[Zebanamana 410]

Simplify the rules. All of the rules. You should not need a LotC Law degree to understand the rules. As it stands there are so many precedents and previous cases with conflicting results that pretty much anything you do could be breaking a rule and be ban worthy.

 

 

Simplify and clarify.

[Jistuma 1996]

20 minutes ago, James2k said:

Yeah, we've enough sleeper cells as it is. And there'd be a lot of controversy about who counts as a resident. Do you have to own a home? What if you live in a family home or a barracks? Or if you're renting a room in a tavern? Are you no longer a resident the second you get evicted(this'd allow those defenders against the coup a nice way of screwing the coupers over)?

I'll just try to answer all as best I can. Unless the sleeper cells are big enough to think they can keep back a full guard force going at them for three days, then I would believe they would have enough members that joined the town to actually make a coup. What could happen, is players abusing this to get power in smaller towns and the like. Also, as far as I know, that way of screwing coupers over would actually need the people to know about the coup. Part of it being a coup is that it's unexpected.

[Cat Evocation 3728]

Some things to concider in a coup is the amount of internal power overthrowing the government or group as well.  If its 2 men with an entire foreign military backing them thats a warclaim not a coup.  If its an entire interior military guarsforce wishing to kill off the leaders and replace them thats a coup. And a coup evsnt ahould always happen at a planned peak time ao the loyalist side could actually have some sort of reaction to it and defence.. no 3am coup that overthrows the leader before he goes to bed in a surprise ambush 

 

Also there shouldent be any kind of gm intervention or admin intervention unless theres obvious rulebreaking or region transferring. 

 

Just my not so worthwhile 2 cents 

 

I wrote this on my phone apologies for spelling mistakes