Ladders and Raids.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

So are raiders just gonna be allowed to carry around ladders RPly tall enough to scale high city walls w/o any drawback?

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Just now, DPM said:

Wdym? It's easy to make a ladder and carry one lol.

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if they're gonna assemble a ladder right at the city walls they should at least have to emote doing so (same standard we enforce with breaking doors and ****) and be vulnerable to attack in the process imo

 

 

[drfate786 1690]

4 minutes ago, DPM said:

Or they can assemble their ladder far from the city walls in a nearby woods or forest and then carry it to the wall?

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Or they could already have the ladders when they arrive?

[Noer 577]

Problem now is that lips on walls prevent ladders from being useful in any way. 

[Freischarler 421]

if you are going to enforce sensible ladder placement, which i voted no on you have to regulate sensible defenses too.

besides i would argue that that ladder placement is not sensible anyways.

https://gyazo.com/f9fea611035175d032e9f4809668afc6

normal ladders would not be placed entirely parallel to the wall, but that is the only way to place them in minecraft, they already dont make sense this rule makes them even worse.

[CaptainHaense 1154]

5 hours ago, Hero_Prodigy said:

There is absolutely no point of ladders if only ‘sensible’ placement is allowed. All manners of ladder placements should be allowed. Without them, raids become boring and attackers just sit outside and shoot at the walls of wherever defenders are hiding. It’s simply unfair and provides no enjoyment to be able to place no ladders, or be blocked from placing them in an accessible place due to ‘sensible placement’. 

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Unfair? Don't forget its the attackers decision to raid. If you think you can't win, then don't raid... Seems simple enough :I

[Freischarler 421]

33 minutes ago, Bubby said:

Unfair? Don't forget its the attackers decision to raid. If you think you can't win, then don't raid... Seems simple enough :I

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what about rescue and counter raids?

[shortchangehero 4217]

Why not just make it so a GM can be called over and the raiding party rolls out of 20 or something, 15+ allowing them to place a temporary ladder to scale the walls that a GM builds (No matter how the wall is built, whether it be spammed with buttons or curved at the top).

[Freischarler 421]

1 minute ago, The Combatant said:

Why not just make it so a GM can be called over and the raiding party rolls out of 20 or something, 15+ allowing them to place a temporary ladder to scale the walls that a GM builds (No matter how the wall is built, whether it be spammed with buttons or curved at the top).

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why would something as basic as placing a ladder be up to an rng roll, and a high one at that

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

so what happens when I build a band of stairs into my wall

[shortchangehero 4217]

19 minutes ago, Freischarler said:

why would something as basic as placing a ladder be up to an rng roll, and a high one at that

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Because it seems like a good middle-ground for everyone debating their sides on this thread.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

Bans for placing diagonal ladders, jesus christ. Is the comic sans supposed to mean this is a joke post?

 

Rather than legislating what blocks you can place in freebuild and what pattern you have to place them in, why not just ban placing all blocks and remove freebuild? Freebuild settlements were never supposed to be protected. The compromise was supposed to be that if you wanted your **** safe, you'd build in a nation tile. 

 

The way the raid rules work currently satisfies nobody. People who like dynamic roleplay and raiding aren't allowed to do anything. People who enjoy pvp aren't given a consistent pvp experience, and people who don't/can't/won't pvp are constantly harassed. Instead of trying to make it harder for people to raid by adding byzantine ******* block restrictions, increase the cooldown times and give people some peace.

 

1 hour ago, Bubby said:

Unfair? Don't forget its the attackers decision to raid. If you think you can't win, then don't raid... Seems simple enough :I

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when it's a "raid" to chase people banditing your roads back to their castle, no it really isn't

[ChonGojDragonski 317]

Yes to the first, no to the second, only reasonable solution.

 

12 hours ago, Temp said:

I don't see the point. If folks shift the rules to allow ladder placements, there will just be buttons every which way making the change pointless. Unless folks are rolling some awful looking ladder carts in and out of a region. That's a whole discussion within itself though.

That is not a reason to not allow ladder placement. If the change is made pointless then there was literally no harm to implementing it, and on the off chance it does allow for better raiding we've made an improvement to the server.

11 hours ago, oblivionsbane said:

Nations shouldn't have to make their builds look stupid with buttons so that the raiders can't get in.

They literally do that rn, and you'd have to be incompetent to allow raiders into your city to be honest.

11 hours ago, oblivionsbane said:

I mean, sure, I can go put blocks in certain places to make lips so that people can /never/ get into some place, but it's going to look dumb, take a lot of work, and in the end it's going to have the same effect as what we have now.

People do that ****, try getting into Dominion, Krugmar, or some of the Dwarven cities, literally impossible.

11 hours ago, oblivionsbane said:

If you really, really want to make it so raiders don't have to worry so much about city defenses, then you'd give them a SINGLE ladder supported by barrier blocks that they can use to get up a wall, and it would require a certain amount of people to carry it. The people within the city would be able to push the ladder over, and if they did, that's it, no more ladders. The change proposed, on the other hand, is just going to support uglier builds and lower in usefulness as time goes on and settlements adapt.

Alright suggestion but terrible implementation.

10 hours ago, SeventhCircle said:

Remove buttons and they'll just be replaced by something else, and they'll certainly be an even more ugly alternative. People strive for impenetrable cities.

Sure, doesn't change the fact that changing the ladder rules is silly and makes the system worse then it already is. Claiming that the server will adapt and the rules won't change anything isn't an argument because you literally have no factual evidence to support this claim.

9 hours ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

So are raiders just gonna be allowed to carry around ladders RPly tall enough to scale high city walls w/o any drawback?

Stop trying to bring RP into something that is limited by MC mechanics. There is so much ******* **** that could be done IRP to stop a siege, the mechanics of Minecraft don't support any of them.

9 hours ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

if they're gonna assemble a ladder right at the city walls they should at least have to emote doing so (same standard we enforce with breaking doors and ****) and be vulnerable to attack in the process imo

Literally are vulnerable to attack while placing them, that's what bowing people is called.

7 hours ago, Bubby said:

Unfair? Don't forget its the attackers decision to raid. If you think you can't win, then don't raid... Seems simple enough :I

That's a silly argument. It already is almost impossible to raid a city, and this idea of 'don't do it if you don't think you'll win' is ****. The system is not working and we're trying to fix it, posts like this contribute nothing.

6 hours ago, Destroyer_Bravo said:

so what happens when I build a band of stairs into my wall

This can already be done, allowing people to place ladders wherever they want will not effect it at all.

 

[argonian 14254]

23 hours ago, The Combatant said:

Why not just make it so a GM can be called over and the raiding party rolls out of 20 or something, 15+ allowing them to place a temporary ladder to scale the walls that a GM builds (No matter how the wall is built, whether it be spammed with buttons or curved at the top).

 

tbh you should also have to roll to climb the ladder. if you get a low roll you should fall off and have to /d40 tbh 

 

also characters over the age of 50 should have to roll for heart attacks when they enter combat 

[Chryasor 269]

I mean there's an easy counter to ladders. Make a proper historical wall that has a slight outwards curviture on the top, the you cant climb up because theres wall in the way, and you cant place ladders on the bottom of blocks. So sure, allow ladders on nations, allow insneisble ladder placement, because its easily countered by having a outwards curve on you wall.