[Community Review] Server Rules Rewrite

[winterblessing 1800]

     Hello LOTC! This is a follow up to this post, regarding the poorly written server rules we currently have in place. This is the first draft of an abundant amount of internal discussion. Some of the goals for this project are to make the rules clear and concise. We are hoping to remove the idea of different interpretations of the rules. By extension of doing this, we hope that all players, including both staff and community members, will be on the same page for what is and isn’t allowed on the server.

 

     Please keep in mind that this is in no way the final draft of the rules; unless for some reason it gains an immense amount of support. We’d like to ask you some things in hope that you, the community, can help us improve the rules. It’s one thing to look at these rules with the eye of a moderator, but it’s another to look at it through the eye of a player.

 

     Is there any way we could format it better? Is it too long, or too short? Did we miss anything? Furthermore, we have a few questions regarding the specific rules. These will all be listed below, and are generally things that we either couldn’t come to a conclusion about, or figured it would be better if the community responded.

 

As such, here are those;

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1. Should using chests be allowed during PvP? Enderchests are strictly not allowed, but should normal chests be allowed? (rule 5.13)

 

2. If someone runs during a countdown should they be allowed to fight back? (Rule 6.3)

 

3. How many days to reverse a decision to PK? (Rule 3.12)

 

4. Should roleplay be allowed in the hunting grounds areas?

 

5. How would you like Primary region ownership transfer to happen? Example being someone who is a leader and PRO PKs but doesn’t want to give up PRO to the new rp leader.

 

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All of the rules, and questions, can be found on this google doc.

 

Please keep in mind that this is not the current ruleset that is in effect. We are still operating under the original ruleset written by the Admins; which can be found here. After we receive feedback from the community we will go back and add, tweak, or remove the things that you all comment on.

You can either leave a comment below with your feedback and ideas or you can head over to the LOTC Discord and leave your feedback in the #community-review-server-rules-update text channel. Hopefully this ruleset can be the best one we’ve had yet!

 

 

 

Thank you to Youngie, for writing the original draft of this ruleset.

Thank you to TarreBear, for helping me edit the original draft and providing abundant feedback.

Thank you to Fireheart, for assisting this project and looking over the rules, as well as providing feedback.

Thank you to Knox and Flamboyant, for looking over this ruleset with the eyes of administration.

Thank you to Cosmetology/Britt for looking over the rules and providing feedback regarding new player understanding.

Thank you to the community for providing feedback on the original post and pushing us in the right direction.

 

 

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

is suicide to avoid rp still a mandatory pk because ive had prisoners neck themselves before they check themselves and get restored to good health by admins.

[The Templar 195]

A week is fine for PKs, but unless it's bound by an enforced PK clause (suicide, CA clause), what does it matter? They're going to find a way to bring their character back if they're truly wanting to. See: Recent plugin abuse to go from undead to living. 

[Unwillingly 18096]

??? why would we allow RP in a hunting ground area? it seems mostly like a spot for grinding minas. That's what it was added for, right? Minas?

[Zacho 2177]

If you vote yes for rp in hunting areas i have to disagree.

[LoTC's Next Top Model 1626]

if you're allowed to fight back after running during a countdown what's the point of the countdown?

[Jentos 9422]

1 hour ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

if you're allowed to fight back after running during a countdown what's the point of the countdown?

Its just another way of enforcing pvp, say during an rp fight, someone decides to run, and ask for it to be by mechanical means, how is it fair that they'd be allowed to simply change it to fight back, as if it were pvp?

[Its_Just_Leap 399]

4 minutes ago, Harold said:

good luck, enjoy the eventual hate

pessimist much? 

[Lsuvsfar 255]

"Information on your persona must match your character. This includes race, age, gender, biography, etc."

 

This isn't so much of a problem since nexus is gone, but please, whatever rules you make, enforce them. There were players abusing these rules that went unpunished, staff running around with multiple personas of the same character, and even an Admin running around on the abusing racial PVP buffs. 

 

So, pretty much here's how I see it with the rules you provided.

 

1. Typically I'd say no to using chests in combat, but I'd also argue it can be sort of situational. For example, let's say one player has managed to escape another player and completely lost them. I think they should be able to use a chest because they've made it away from their pursuer. Or let's say there's a raid going on, and someone is behind a wall, and goes to grab arrows or something like that. Again, why not? There's nothing really unrealistic about it.

 

However, let's say 1 player gets challenged to pvp, and the person trying to kill them is right on their heels. If they deposit a bunch of items in a chest and then go down like 2-3 second afterwards, then I'd say no.

 

2. Let those that run fight. Honestly, the countdown system is basically based completely on honor. Based on prior experience, as I understand it there's pretty much 0 way to tell if someone gets hit 1-2 times before the countdown actually says go, unless you're recording. If you allow people to run before the countdown, then I think it pretty much fixes the issue because then you don't have to wait and hope that your enemy doesn't decide to attack early.

 

3. Yeah, just as long as the players aren't reversing suicide, let them have their week. It's their choice, in the end. Only thing I'd say is in conjunction with point 5. If PRO PKs, transfers the region, and then un-PKs, don't let them reverse their decision or use it as CB against the people the region was given to.

 

4. Yes. If someone wants to go rp the hunting areas, let them. This is an RP server, if someone wants to go fight another person, rp, etc. in the hunting areas, let them.

 

5. ((Get ready for a rant)) To my understanding, that example effectively defeats the entire point of the PRO system. As I understand it, it was created so that the RP leader was the actual leader of the region, and couldn't be sniped because their lord or some random owner decided to take that land from them. If you allow non-leaders to be PROs, then you are opening up the door to region sniping again, which was still not very well handled after the introduction of the PRO system. IMO, the heir of the region should be a region owner to it.

 

If a PRO PKs the character which owns the region, then they should be forced to hand PRO over to one of the region owners and removed from region ownership (unless they are playing their own heir). If a PRO dies without and heir, then in my opinion, the surviving region leaders should be allowed to decide the next PRO, whether that be through unanimous decision or through an internal fight, sort of like a coup(though I'd recommend not allowing outsiders, since it's essentially a sudden scramble for power rather than a coup, though I suppose the results of the fight could potentially be followed up by a coup).

 

Last map, PRO was handled poorly, so there were regions that people had PRO from characters which had been dead for IRL months, and thus just sat there collecting dust. There was also little enforcement of the actual region owner being the PRO, so on a lot of regions, the nation/duchy/whatever owner would be the PRO, thus allowing them to evict their vassals and not have to deal with rebellions since they stripped them of their region.

 

TL; DR

Let the leader of the region be the PRO, rather than the leader of the nation/shadow government.

[Ankalagon_ 258]

Lol what the hell is the point of a countdown if players can run and then pvp even if countdown wasn't finished? That's the same as just rushing the enemy side halfway through countdown.

[KeiaTypeBeat 3277]

9 hours ago, Destroyer_Bravo said:

is suicide to avoid rp still a mandatory pk because ive had prisoners neck themselves before they check themselves and get restored to good health by admins.

Uhhh from what I know, unless your persona can’t die because CA, suicide is always Pk no matter the circumstances 

[Jondead 260]

12 hours ago, Destroyer_Bravo said:

is suicide to avoid rp still a mandatory pk because ive had prisoners neck themselves before they check themselves and get restored to good health by admins.

PK'ing with surcide is always valid yes. Surcide no matter what is a PK.

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??? why would we allow RP in a hunting ground area? it seems mostly like a spot for grinding minas. That's what it was added for, right? Minas?

Whilst this is half true it is still a RP situation, passive RP is a must seeing as Roleplay always happens, you are always in Roleplay even in PvP, which means that Roleplay in thse places just make sense. @Unwillingly

Quote

Uhhh from what I know, unless your persona can’t die because CA, suicide is always Pk no matter the circumstances 

This is correct unless your Lore states other wise you have to PK duing Surcide, like fxs. The Monks cnt bring back people that willed their own death in Lore. @KiausT (The Alpha ****)

[Trenchist 864]

nice photo L0L

[winterblessing 1800]

On 8/19/2018 at 4:23 PM, Destroyer_Bravo said:

is suicide to avoid rp still a mandatory pk because ive had prisoners neck themselves before they check themselves and get restored to good health by admins.

 

It should be, yes. Suicide is a mandatory PK. If it wasn't you could use it to get out of situations you didn't want to be in. 
 

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On 8/19/2018 at 4:34 PM, The Templar said:

A week is fine for PKs, but unless it's bound by an enforced PK clause (suicide, CA clause), what does it matter? They're going to find a way to bring their character back if they're truly wanting to. See: Recent plugin abuse to go from undead to living. 

 

As far as I'm aware, we're going to try to do better with enforcing PK's on our end. If a player signs a PK clause with another player, we won't go out of our way to enforce that, but if it is from an event, lore, or otherwise, it will be enforced.

 

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On 8/19/2018 at 5:53 PM, Unwillingly said:

??? why would we allow RP in a hunting ground area? it seems mostly like a spot for grinding minas. That's what it was added for, right? Minas?

 

On 8/19/2018 at 5:56 PM, ZachoSnacko said:

If you vote yes for rp in hunting areas i have to disagree.

 

We had a lot of discussion internally about this rule and couldn't exactly come to a conclusion on this rule, so that's why we opened it up to the community for feedback. 

Personally, I've dealt with lots of situations in the past where there was valid roleplay taking place at the hunting grounds; and others where the other side was doing rather poor emotes and would attempt to down & kill the other side when they were fending off mobs. It's a rather hard issue to tackle. On one hand, it could be considered a resource farming area (like the mines, or resource island where roleplay usually doesn't take place), but on the other hand it's a potential breeding ground for some very good bandit roleplay to take place. We're still going to gather feedback on this rule, though, and try to come to a conclusion that makes everyone happy.

 

 

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On 8/19/2018 at 6:20 PM, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

if you're allowed to fight back after running during a countdown what's the point of the countdown?

 

On 8/20/2018 at 12:28 AM, L0rdT0mas said:

Lol what the hell is the point of a countdown if players can run and then pvp even if countdown wasn't finished? That's the same as just rushing the enemy side halfway through countdown.

 

Those who charge the opposing side before the countdown has concluded will still be breaking the rules. There is no excuse to be blatantly rushing the other side.

The problem, though, as outlined in the other replies here is that the current countdown system is almost entirely based on honour. Issues with lag and misunderstandings have caused several PvP fights to go downhill. On one players screen the countdown may have concluded, while on the others it could be stuck at three seconds left.

If we allow players to change their positions and run before the countdown begins we won't run into this issue. In my experience with moderating raids and other small-scale fights, this already happens. One side will run in the opposite direction before the countdown is over and the other side will not complain. That being said, though, we have seen some players express their discontent with rulings like this and that is why we opened it up to the community.

Perhaps if the rule was worded differently, with something along the lines of;

If a player runs during a countdown, they shall not be able to fight back until the countdown has concluded. Movement during, and before the countdown is allowed, although no hits may take place until the countdown is over; unless an opposing side seems to be fleeing 

 

That being said, thank you for the feedback! It's rules like these that we needed to get another outlook on, and I really appreciate the time you guys took to reply, rather than just voting on the polls. ? 

On 8/19/2018 at 10:22 PM, Harold said:

good luck, enjoy the eventual hate

 

thank you harold o7

 

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On 8/20/2018 at 2:03 AM, KiausT (The Alpha ****) said:

Uhhh from what I know, unless your persona can’t die because CA, suicide is always Pk no matter the circumstances 

 

Yup! This is how it should be enforced, at least. Suicide is a mandatory PK as far as I am aware.

 

 

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On 8/20/2018 at 4:49 AM, Jondead said:

PK'ing with surcide is always valid yes. Surcide no matter what is a PK.

Whilst this is half true it is still a RP situation, passive RP is a must seeing as Roleplay always happens, you are always in Roleplay even in PvP, which means that Roleplay in thse places just make sense. @Unwillingly

This is correct unless your Lore states other wise you have to PK duing Surcide, like fxs. The Monks cnt bring back people that willed their own death in Lore. @KiausT (The Alpha ****)

 

Yeah; some very good points here. Although, there is a bit of a grey area with the hunting grounds. Should they be classified as a resource farming area (like the mines and resource island) where roleplay doesnt usually take place, or not? 

 

 

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On 8/20/2018 at 9:32 AM, Trenchist said:

nice photo L0L

 

Thanks!

[Ricky 321]

I vote PK anyone who picks a fight with smaller groups, but then denies a skirm where they have the numerical advantage. Bunch of soft bastards.