Recovering The Ancient Tongue Of The Elves.

[Sagwort 832]

Is there a dictionary being written? If not I would love to write one

[Yuln 206]

While correct there.. its a tad convoluted, and thats assuming we have a word for arrow which we do not. Or at least as far as I can see.

Like for example, the words for Dark Elf, Wood Elf, and High Elf should be in the list, rather then having the would be users try to figure it out. For example I didn't know High Elf meant Blessed Elf, instead I thought it was Noble Elf.

Unless we want to spend time correcting people, the information should be out there.

Yes it should indeed.

[Sporadic 2801]

OOC:

I think it would be easier if the table in the thread and the wiki had a section for the Common to Elvish listings in alphabetical order.

Right now its Elvish to Common with the elvish in alphabetical order and that makes it hard to find things.

The dictionary is aligned Elvish to Common, as are most dictionaries that describe an 'ancient' languages. It's a status quo. If you want common words you're gonna have to get good with CTRL+F.

Besides, I don't want people quickly referencing to this thread in IG chat as it is major metagaming. It's annoying, I agree fully, but fair.

Also, nothing's stopping you from realigning the dictionary to Common->Elvish for personal use. It's a lot of work (one of the reasons I won't), but then you'll have your field guide AND you probably know most words by heart already, so great!

If you take the word arrow, bow should be "arrow-shooter" and quiver "arrow-carrier", so ranger should be "arrow-user".

Yes, the 'tool' words (Fer' prefix) are coming up next, a long with the 'to fare' word to make the 'how do you fare?' and 'farewell' group of common phrases. I'm currently going over the way nanatsuno's friend used the word: I'm not a great fan of their way, so I'm looking for a way to simplify it to our needs.

So you'll be able to use the arrow words soon enough!

While correct there.. its a tad convoluted, and thats assuming we have a word for arrow which we do not. Or at least as far as I can see.

Like for example, the words for Dark Elf, Wood Elf, and High Elf should be in the list, rather then having the would be users try to figure it out. For example I didn't know High Elf meant Blessed Elf, instead I thought it was Noble Elf.

Unless we want to spend time correcting people, the information should be out there.

The wiki has a lot of OOC information on common combinations. If you're more serious in getting to combine your own words, the wiki page is going to help you out a LOT. Mali'Ker and friends are in there, as are a dozen of other words that you'll probably find useful.

The reason they're not in the 'tome' (IC post, the thread) is because a: it would become cluttered and b: i want to challenge readers in creating their own combinations. Some will be wrong, but some might be truly interesting. Nobody can ICly attest to their language being correct Elven or not.

((Who did -1 my post? I don't really get why you would.))

I don't know either. I also peeve myself on people who don't seem to draw a line between IC and OOC. Hence my support in making this forum RP-only.

EDIT: You can use the word Tal'Aengul, but remember that the elven language died out BEFORE the coming of the ascended. You won't find any ancient elves referencing to them in their tongue.

[Aerinyes 402]

Just a FYI, elves can live up to 4000 years, if one elf who lived that long spoke to an ancestor in his youth that was about that old, said elf has almost 8000 years of knowledge or at least knowledge that could possibly be 8000 years old

It would be akin to me speaking to a great aunt about the 1920's. I wasn't there, but I'm getting a first hand recollection. So even if documents are lost, elves would have word of mouth to fall back on.

Thats something to consider when determining how 'lost' this language is. How far back does Aegis truely go?

Also it was said that we are trying to proliferate the language as much as possible, yet you're trying to make it harder on others to figure out. Not everyone is as clever as you are when it comes to linguistics, but they shouldn't be penalized for it by having their characters not know.

Think of it as unmeta-gaming. Where the characters know something the player doesn't. Which quite frankly, our characters do know alot more then we do. For example, I doubt most of us can swing a sword. But our character might. Just like some of us aren't good at learning langauges, but our characters might.

As for the difficulty of reverse sorting the words, its as simple as clicking a button in Word 2010. Maybe even Open Office. I'll see what I can come up with.

[Yuln 206]

Aegis is quite a young continent this world it much older and dangerous, the Verge is an good example of a more ancient place then ours, so there have been other races that walked the world before, like the Aenguls or the Deamons.

[Elindor 654]

The reason an Enlgish-Elven dictionary won't work is because of the possibilities through using combinations. A source word could form a dozen other words, therefore it is simpler to organise them in order of elven root words. You may think its easy to change, but it will take you a very long time, and our constant updates will continually throw it out of line. It would make it easy for people, but ease of use is not the intention.

Also, the oldest elf to have lived was just over 1000 years old. My estimation is that the language dissappeared between the year 500 and 800. There may be elves alive who were around then, but it was so long ago and they would have been too young to recall anything useful. The language was suddenly outlawed, so anyone who spoke it would have been encouraged to forget it by a sharp sword. Please keep in mind the technology and non-existence of the undead at this time when suggesting words. There are many things that simply would not have existed, therefore you could form a word with affixes and connective words to make a modern version.

The language is actually very advanced at this stage, and if you submerse yourself in it enough you will realise just how many words are possible. Also, if you can't figure out languages OOC, I don't have the patience to work around your shortcomings.

Is there a dictionary being written? If not I would love to write one

I'll probably have a crack at writing it in-game. Hopefully I can get Spout to work before then. ((I am a bit worried about writing it before the world change, in case books are left behind.))

[Aerinyes 402]

I've actually come up with an idea that would make sense. With the uncovering of the ancient tongue, it would make sense for a simpler form of elvish would be derived. This would be what the modern elves would use in everyday speech when not speaking in common.

The formal and complex language would be Ancient Elvish, and the everyday usable language would be Modern Elvish. The difference would be like comparing Middle English to Modern English.

It would have a set of simplified root nouns and verbs that could easily be memorized and used by elves that wish to. Or at the very least, use it to reference people, places, and things.

We're still going to mostly speak common just to be able to converse with non-elves, but there's no reason not to call subraces by their elven derivations. Its much better to call a dark elf a Mali'Ker then just Dark Elf. Or a Wood Elf, Mali'Ame instead.

Besides I see a simpler form of elvish being used anyway by the people that use it. Kind of like slang, acronyms, references, and even net/textspeak are IRL.

-Edit:

Actually been going over this with a friend of mine and an even simpler way then I suggested in the above paragraphs would be to work something out sort of like Spanglish.

It was a thing I used to do whenever I used the drow language in other RP games. Use the words you know, replace the ones you don't with common (english).

Trying to make two languages off the bat would be a horrendous undertaking. Just need some reference material ingame (books and libraries) to aid in it.

Already ICly over the last few days my character and another have been building small libraries. Though the two haven't gotten together to combine their knowledge yet lol. So its being documented in two different ways. Which could be interesting in itself.

[Sporadic 2801]

If a common to elven dictionary is made, that's fine by me. I do not want to monopolize this language to my personal wishes, as it ultimately belongs to the community. So, if you make one, I'll put a link to it in this thread even.

I just feel like it'll have people miss out on the wealth of the language. Few english words have a direct Elven equivalent, so you'll never use the word exactly as you intend to. If you learn the elvish word first, you realize it's roots and why it means what it means.

The ominous nature of acal would never become clear to you, for example. In language there is culture, and I wish to deliver both to whoever reads this topic.

Speaking semi-elvish is a good idea. I can recommend it. Though I personally like sentences either in pure english or pure elvish. As I said before, common phrases and outcries are easily integrated in everyday conversation, and it's easy to go a bit further than that by adopting your own elvish stock phrases and apply them where possible.

Also, I only believe in playing a character smarter than you to an extent. If someone plays a renowned linguist but rites liek dis and doesn't know the meaning of 'voluptuous', then they can't 'unmeta' that away. The same goes for playing a master smith but having no idea how a metal sword is usually forged ((you right click da iron blocks rite?)).

Maybe you can get away with it with swordsmanship, since in Minecraft combat, there is no RP.

I believe in RP with research. Meaning, if you're going to be a proper major general, you should learn to tell a mausser rifle from a javeln. And if you're going to be a proper Elven language speaker, you should learn Elvish.

Also, added two words:

van: to fare

ern: to can, to be able to.

[Elindor 654]

ern: to can, to be able to.

So eurn would be toucan?

Interesting thing with the spanglish elven is that I was RPing with Axl who is somehow a direct descendant of Horen's first son Haren (I think) and from a group of men who lived with the elves, some cross-racial breeding went on here. The point of the story, is he was getting me to try and translate an old book which was written half in elvish and half in human with a very fluid crossover. ((all of this was in character as the book was blank, but he said it was partly in elven so I helped out)). I explained it to him saying that what orcs do to our common language while mixing in Blah is what humans to do Ancient Elven. If you wanted to pursue this as a spinoff then perhaps you could ask him a little about the name of the people and their language, just for the sake of remaining in RP.

((I personally would disagree with dumbing down the language. I hope elven never turns into blah and we never end up with pretentious elves waltzing around King's Road speaking elven because noone understands them. Its like players who try using (google translate) latin for special occassions. Latin is not an in-game language, you're just a noob!))

[Glurg_Howdan 7]

Ja shud all just speak urksie blah!

tupid twiggys wut da skah du ja knuw abuut anyding?

[Sporadic 2801]

So eurn would be toucan?

Interesting thing with the spanglish elven is that I was RPing with Axl who is somehow a direct descendant of Horen's first son Haren (I think) and from a group of men who lived with the elves, some cross-racial breeding went on here. The point of the story, is he was getting me to try and translate an old book which was written half in elvish and half in human with a very fluid crossover. ((all of this was in character as the book was blank, but he said it was partly in elven so I helped out)). I explained it to him saying that what orcs do to our common language while mixing in Blah is what humans to do Ancient Elven. If you wanted to pursue this as a spinoff then perhaps you could ask him a little about the name of the people and their language, just for the sake of remaining in RP.

((I personally would disagree with dumbing down the language. I hope elven never turns into blah and we never end up with pretentious elves waltzing around King's Road speaking elven because noone understands them. Its like players who try using (google translate) latin for special occassions. Latin is not an in-game language, you're just a noob!))

eurn for toucan... hell yeah.

There's probably no toucans in the elven world, though. Maybe I can make it 'bird'. Though I'll want a word for 'Hawk' to make the elvish name thread happy :P.

Anyway, dangerously prone to elitism as I am, of course I don't want to see the language dumbed down. And Google translate Elvish would be my nightmare come true. But there's a lot in between pure English and pure Elvish.

Proverbs, phrases, greetings, common sayings, are sentences on themselves. They work even if the rest of sentences is English. It adds depth and culture to every character for minimal effort.

[Elindor 654]

el- (ele-) Changes a noun into a pronoun, thus making it a title of someone, or possibly something.

i.e. bilok means to create, thus elebilokir means The Creator

eleker oem means The Dark One

[[word to come]] means to redeem. Thus [[something]] is redemption and [[something else]] becomes to save

((Sorry about the nothingness, I'm just waiting on a second party to confirm the word))

[Sporadic 2801]

Updated. I'll make a changelog later. Also put yours in, Elin :)

[Elindor 654]

I just realised that my noun is 'indor' because my name is Elindor. Perhaps the word 'book' should be indor to make me special. Translates to 'The Book' which is a little weird, but kindof fun.

[Sporadic 2801]

I just realised that my noun is 'indor' because my name is Elindor. Perhaps the word 'book' should be indor to make me special. Translates to 'The Book' which is a little weird, but kindof fun.