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REFUTING TYRISM

“The weak, and the faithless, find no deliverance”


PREAMBLE

 

It is with a heavy heart I am forced to recognize a break in belief that found in roots in the days of olde. In the Fatherist tradition there have long been two major schools of theology that of the Arthurian tradition and those who adhered to the misguided teachings of Tyr. For centuries there has existed a tension within our faith however, with the publication this Tyrist document no longer can the divisions within our faith be ignored. No longer can the divergence between Arthurian teachings and the misguided fantasies of Tyr be reconciled under the same banner of the Holy Hearth. Herein I shall address each misguided doctrine advocated for by the Tyrites.

 


 

“The Father is, in short, the Guiding Light and Protector of us all. We of Tyrian belief hold Him to be the representative of the necessary duality of the realms of creation; He is the Order of Law, and He is the Chaos of Wrath and Retribution.” - The Tyrian Red Faith Preamble

 

The father is not the ‘duality’ of creation nor is he ‘chaos’ the father is creation, the father is justice, the father is goodness itself. To attribute ‘chaos’ to him is to associate him with the ‘ruinous powers’. The idea of a dual natured father is anathema to the faith, the All-Father possesses a single nature of justice. The evidence of this can be observed both in the explicit scripture Dawning 1:10 or in the works of older scholars of the faith. Aeyn’s Summae Patriae speaks of the conception of the father from conflict with the Olde ones, said conflict explicitly laying out in scripture the conception of the Father as Justice incarnate. 

 

As to the counter argument refuting the scrolls as an Arthurian fabrication, I would note that your own fallacious Tyrian conception of the faith draws on the three pillars of the faith, these three pillars being explicitly drawn from scripture.

 


“Though the Father is represented by the flames of our Hearth, and though the Hearth is of His essence, the importance of the Flame in our faith is that of symbolism; It represents his presence in our world and in our hearts, it represents the burning passions, fury and luminescence of the Father, and it represents the Father’s covenant with His Faithful.” - The Tyrian Red Faith Preamble. A similar principle is repeated in the section titled ‘The Father’s Flame’ and in the subsection titled ‘The Second Tenet: Spread the Flame’

 

This passage borders on Presian heresy, the flame is not ‘symbolic’ nor does it ‘represent’ our covenant with the Father. The Hearthflames wielded by each keeper are an explicit portion of the Father’s very essence,  his very soul. Hearthfire cannot be compared to mundane fire, it is persisting evidence of the Father’s covenant with his children. There is no symbolism in the Hearthflame, there is presence. When Hearthflame is present the literal essence of the Father is present as it is a portion of his very soul. It is only through the presence of a Hearthflame, generally kept in either a hearth or flamebrand that Keepers (thus called because they keep the essence of the Father) derive any spiritual authority. A keeper without their flame is merely a madman deprived of all sacred authority. 

 


“The Unworthy, according to all traditional doctrine, are those who do not adhere to the strictures of honor and morality. They are the greed-plagued, the slothful and the moral degenerates of the world. There is no one face, nation or creed that represents those who are Unworthy. They are everywhere, for where there are men and women to fall prey to the corruption of immorality, there will be those who are consumed by it. The draw towards corruption is an inherent flaw of the mortal mind, and it is up to us to resist its corruption and rise to a greater standing. Those who do not dedicate themselves to this mission of moral betterment are the Unworthy. The Heretic, the Thief and the Murderer are all Unworthy, yes; but so too is the man who allows his honor to be stained and his spirit tainted by inaction, for if we give in to corruption, we harm ourselves and our people.”  - The Tyrian Red Faith section 5 ‘The Father’s Tenets’ Subsection 1 ‘Suffer not the Unworthy’ 

 

This passage is rife with error unexpected from one so educated in the faith as to be capable of quoting the Arthurian decree regarding the Fel Plague. Firstly, it is lain out both in scripture and in Scholastic tradition that mankind is the favoured race, and that all other races while capable of faith and subsequently salvation are the products of soul twisting vice. This is evidenced in The Book of Wick and in the scholastic tradition in the writings of Aeyn, particularly in the Summae Theologica section titled “Race and Fatherism”. Beyond that any creed that is not Fatherism is inherently unworthy as it is bathed in ignorance rather than truth. It is here that we come to perhaps the most egregious offence of the Tyrites, tolerance. 

 

Ours is a holy mission, a duty bestowed by the divine Father himself to defend and purify this world from all that would ail it. Yet so often the Tyrite will advocate for tolerance when confronted with those blind to the light of truth, or even those steeped in sin and decadence themselves. This is unacceptable. Tolerance is cowardice. Tolerance is unworthiness. To know the full truth, to know one’s duty and yet still to shirk it because it would result in discomfort is the height of failure, particularly to those who would call themselves clergy. 

 


 What, then, must the Faithful man do to follow this first tenet? Simply put, he must dedicate himself to his own betterment, for the good of himself and his kinsmen. Further, he should help guide back to the path those who have wandered astray. Those who refuse to be helped, or who are beyond redemption, however, are to be left to the consequences of their sins, as they are Unworthy of the Faithful’s mercy.” - The Tyrian Red Faith section 5 ‘The Father’s Tenets’ Subsection 1 ‘Suffer not the Unworthy’ 

 

Here the Tyrites demonstrate their own error and the eternal flaw of tolerance that stains their entire paradigm. Those who refused to be helped or who are beyond redemption are not to be ‘left to the consequences of their sins’ this is merely licence for them to spread their corrupt filth to the pious and those still open to salvation. Rather, those beyond saving must be given the peace of fire. The peace of fire must be administered not only to free their soul from its corrupted flesh and give them the smallest chance of salvation but also to protect the greater body of the flame from further harm by their presence. 

 


“In many ways, the subject of the Ruinous Powers is where the Tyrian and Arthurian doctrines deviate most strongly from one another. We Tyrians hold a much narrower view of what is and what is not a step on the path to ruin than the Arthurians. We have come to acknowledge those practices with goals similar to our own as benign, even benevolent in some cases. It was the Tyrians who took up the sword against the demonic horde in the Inferi War of Arcas, and it was we who found ourselves on good terms with the Paladins of Xan, some of our most honorable allies in that conflict. Further, it was we who were granted the blessings of the Aegnul Aeriel in the Final Battle of Korvassa. As such, we have come to tolerate the presence of those who, in their own way, bring benefit to our cause in the fight against the Long Dark and its agents.” - The Tyrian Red Faith section 6 ‘The Ruinous Powers 

 

TOLERANCE! WHEREVER I LOOK THE TYRITE SHRINKS FROM DUTY. The Tyrite speaks of demon kissed magic users and of foul alien beings. In fact they admit that they themselves have been demon kissed by these terrible creatures beyond our knowing. The only truth is the Father’s light, the father’s truth. There can be no discussion, no dialogue on this point. To consort with the demon, the mutant is to forsake the third pillar of the faith. They are not certainly not benevolent, as all benevolence is derived from the Father, whom they deny. 

 


SUMMARY OF DIFFERENCES

 

I.THE FATHER IS OF A SINGULAR NOT A DUAL ESSENCE, NOR CAN HE BE CALLED IN ANY WAY ‘CHAOTIC’

 

II.THE FATHER’S FLAME IS HIS LITERAL ESSENCE AND DEMONSTRATES HIS PRESENCE IN ALL HOLY AFFAIRS. IT IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN METAPHORICAL.

 

III. MANKIND IS THE FIRST RACE, TAINTED BY SIN BUT TO A LESSER DEGREE THAN THE TWISTED RACES. THE OTHER RACES ARE TWISTED SOULS CAPABLE OF SALVATION BUT TAINTED BY THE SINS OF THEIR FOREBEARS.

 

IV. THOSE BEYOND SALVATION MUST BE GIVEN THE PEACE OF FIRE

 

V.THERE CAN BE NO TOLERANCE OF WYTCHERY OR CONSORTING WITH THE DEMONKISSED.

 


Writ SA 21

Theoderic




 

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Cant wait til you're a paladin so you stfu about witchcraft !!!!

 

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Seeing actual debate and activity in the Red Faith subforum is weeeeeeird... I like it. 

 

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Lord Purifier Kursin would pause as he finished reading over the Tyrite missive and was about to get back to planning the Purifier's next assignment when he noticed an entirely separate treatise underneath, quickly finding it to be the entirely unexpected Arthasian point of view. Long had it been since he had spoken to someone from that sect of the faith and found himself engrossed in the paper, finding both points he agreed on and those he disagreed on. He would find himself thinking on if he should throw out a Purifier's perspective, though would decide against it for the time being. There was much work to do in organizing the cleanse of Norland's own soil from the fetid taint of the anathema, he would leave the debating up to those scholars and clergymen who had the time to do so.

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Vykk looks over the multiple treaties "It really be that time again I suppose..." he says picking them up one by one and reading them through "It seems this ones done his homework, alas he seems to have made some mistakes."

 

53 minutes ago, Narthok said:

The father is not the ‘duality’ of creation nor is he ‘chaos’ the father is creation

 

"Ahh, a mistake it seems." Vykk says tiredly, having digested more words than Ashwood spirits "It was in Arthas' own words that the Father was in fact an agent of chaos, actively asking of his followers to do something and fail rather than do nothing at all, for slothfullness is one of the greatest sins. The writer here seems to have mistaken chaos for evilness."

 

56 minutes ago, Narthok said:

the flame is not ‘symbolic’ nor does it ‘represent’ our covenant with the Father.

 

"Hmm, another mistake it seems, perhaps just a grammatical misunderstanding of High Keeper Alisas treatise, indeed, regular flame is in fact a symbol, and nothing more, you seem to agree with the High Keeper, yet have mistakenly believed they were speaking of the Hearth flames instead of regular flames."

 

1 hour ago, Narthok said:

This passage is rife with error

 

"Here we go, a true difference of theology within the faith, indeed I have no qualms with what Theodoric says, beyond the fact that it is nay error, just disagreement, a simple disagreement that I too have with his words, as an elf, a follower of the faith from the begginning, and a Paragon."

 

 

1 hour ago, Narthok said:

‘left to the consequences of their sins’

those beyond saving must be given the peace of fire.

 

"Again, another assumption of disagreement..." Vykk says slowly wiping at his face "is not being given the peace of fire a consquence of sin?" Vykk looks through the paper again, making sure he was correct that it was just an error of assumption, "Aye, I guess he was just so intent on Tyrians being incorrect he failed to recognize that he agreed with them on this point."

 

1 hour ago, Narthok said:

To consort with the demon, the mutant is to forsake the third pillar of the faith.

 

"Hmm" Vykk says finding himself uncomfortable in having to awkwardly inform the man "Is this man nay aware that Arthasians, including Arthas himself did nay consider non-voidal magic to nay be of the Fel, it is discouraged and illegal within Norland, however, even Arthas himself allowed the Ascended to live next to the Ashwood tree in the krag that the hearth temple itself resided below."

 

Vykk returns to the tavern, he needed a drink "I need a drink." he said.

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59 minutes ago, _pr0fit said:

Vykk looks over the multiple treaties "It really be that time again I suppose..." he says picking them up one by one and reading them through "It seems this ones done his homework, alas he seems to have made some mistakes."

 

 

"Ahh, a mistake it seems." Vykk says tiredly, having digested more words than Ashwood spirits "It was in Arthas' own words that the Father was in fact an agent of chaos, actively asking of his followers to do something and fail rather than do nothing at all, for slothfullness is one of the greatest sins. The writer here seems to have mistaken chaos for evilness."

 

 

"Hmm, another mistake it seems, perhaps just a grammatical misunderstanding of High Keeper Alisas treatise, indeed, regular flame is in fact a symbol, and nothing more, you seem to agree with the High Keeper, yet have mistakenly believed they were speaking of the Hearth flames instead of regular flames."

 

 

"Here we go, a true difference of theology within the faith, indeed I have no qualms with what Theodoric says, beyond the fact that it is nay error, just disagreement, a simple disagreement that I too have with his words, as an elf, a follower of the faith from the begginning, and a Paragon."

 

 

 

"Again, another assumption of disagreement..." Vykk says slowly wiping at his face "is not being given the peace of fire a consquence of sin?" Vykk looks through the paper again, making sure he was correct that it was just an error of assumption, "Aye, I guess he was just so intent on Tyrians being incorrect he failed to recognize that he agreed with them on this point."

 

 

"Hmm" Vykk says finding himself uncomfortable in having to awkwardly inform the man "Is this man nay aware that Arthasians, including Arthas himself did nay consider non-voidal magic to nay be of the Fel, it is discouraged and illegal within Norland, however, even Arthas himself allowed the Ascended to live next to the Ashwood tree in the krag that the hearth temple itself resided below."

 

Vykk returns to the tavern, he needed a drink "I need a drink." he said.

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 1

Where exactly do you get the claim that Arthurians have ever advocated for Chaos,

 

I reviewed the general summaries published by Arthas, Aeyn, Thoromir II and Godric respectively and all of them either did not mention chaos or clearly affiliated it with evil. As for your comment regard chaos not being affiliated with evil Aeyn's treatise on the faith titled "Fatherism an Introduction" was very clear on the importance of virtue and discipline.

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 2

You are mistaken. There is no symbolic fire in the faith unless it is depicted in heraldry. All fire wielded by the faith is Hearthfire. To that end in implying it is symbolic one denies the explicit presence of the All Father.

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 3

The faith's position on race has been clear for centuries, that is not to say that the lesser races cannot find salvation and subsequently become paragons, but their burden is significantly higher having originated in sin. Furthermore, to be a paragon one must be dead, if you are not dead how are you therefore a paragon?

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 4
The document was clearly advocating for those beyond salvation to be left unto their own devices, your pedantic reading of the text is not an argument.

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 5
Arthas makes no distinction regarding magic in his summary of the Red Faith or in his treatise regarding the Fel Plague. All magic is unaccptable.

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Renault takes time to read over the papers remarking "Well written and I can't help but agree with the wise Theodric, but still a bunch of pagan gobbledygook."

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Keeper Dramyr examines a pristine red apple for a little while and sets it down only after abolishing any impurities of the surface. Scuffs and the like, a fleck of dirt, and he bent the stem of the apple till it was held in unremarkable position. A pure apple. Only once this was done did he cast his eyes down to the several scriptures that had made their way into his ashen quarters. "I must be dreaming again. Too many dreams have I had where it turned out to be false or half-truth. Mm mm, but this seems too real - Perhaps my penance nearly finished. My five year sleep repaid." a radiant smile crept beneath his porcelain mask at the return of the Essay wars, a rare sight, the more he read the more he enjoyed himself. Yet his fun for the night was not meant to last and had been cut too short to form a response - Distant screeches and skitterings from the depths of the temple's caves had caught his attention. Something was coming. He had to fight. "******* spiders." 

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Olivier Renault would examine both the Tyrism and Arthurian refutes. The Savoyard would mention, "There is a lot more to know about that of the Red Faith, perhaps they are more then just burning bush worshipers." He'd state, turning towards his cousin Antonius. @Milenkhov

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Just now, Lionbileti said:

Olivier Renault would examine both the Tyrism and Arthurian refutes. The Savoyard would mention, "There is a lot more to know about that of the Red Faith, perhaps they are more then just burning bush worshipers." He'd state, turning towards his cousin Antonius. @Milenkhov

Octavius Ragsonsson, a proud fire bush worshipper, wields his ooga booga spear. As Olivier turns to his cousin the man would stab the spear forward at him. "Mi worshup bush! It shineh!" He'd grumble in an angry way. "Praiz flahm!" 

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1 hour ago, Narthok said:

  

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 1

Where exactly do you get the claim that Arthurians have ever advocated for Chaos,

 

I reviewed the general summaries published by Arthas, Aeyn, Thoromir II and Godric respectively and all of them either did not mention chaos or clearly affiliated it with evil. As for your comment regard chaos not being affiliated with evil Aeyn's treatise on the faith titled "Fatherism an Introduction" was very clear on the importance of virtue and discipline.

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 2

You are mistaken. There is no symbolic fire in the faith unless it is depicted in heraldry. All fire wielded by the faith is Hearthfire. To that end in implying it is symbolic one denies the explicit presence of the All Father.

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 3

The faith's position on race has been clear for centuries, that is not to say that the lesser races cannot find salvation and subsequently become paragons, but their burden is significantly higher having originated in sin. Furthermore, to be a paragon one must be dead, if you are not dead how are you therefore a paragon?

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 4
The document was clearly advocating for those beyond salvation to be left unto their own devices, your pedantic reading of the text is not an argument.

 

RESPONSE TO COMMENT 5
Arthas makes no distinction regarding magic in his summary of the Red Faith or in his treatise regarding the Fel Plague. All magic is unaccptable.

 

 

"I take it back" Vykk says, "I guess this man was not as smart as I thought he was... Nevermind I suppose."

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Lukas Jokic gives an affirming nod. "Ne'er agreed wit' te 'eathens. Though mus' admit. Four 'ole languages in Almaris and 'tis man chose to speak facts. Dobry, very dobry." He muttered with a heavy Raevir accent.

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A letter would be delivered to Theoderic by an old Keeper, it would be made public shortly after as copies would surely be leaked.

 

"While the impure must be cleansed by fire, those touched by the mark of true corruption cannot be cleansed. The deathless, the daemon and the wytch-kin will always be born anew, their flesh remade.. The Ash Burial must be performed to keep such servants of the dark contained for all time. Please renew this practice at some point. The highkeeper in particular may show her true colors soon enough and may require such a practice, Tyr and his followers had always given way to madness."

 

"I would also inquire that you explain to these Tyrists what the practice is and why it was done, with referral to the betrayer Beo whom inspired the practice and had escaped the extinct ash sect for countless millennia after."

 

 

Edited by drfate786
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