The New World and You: A Teaser

[Moglets 4]

Hi MrZombez,

Well my thoughts in response to the points you raised are:

1) Just because some people who are wealthy have an opinion that differs from mine in no way diminishes my argument. This is a logical fallacy. I making a point that this is about a change of map, not about any other agenda (like creating an even playing field, for example). I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy with some changes going into the new world, but they may not be necessary, just desirable in some people's view. The change of map is necessary in the opinion of the vast majority of the players and the staff. Rebalancing wealth is far more devisive, and will upset a lot of people. The onus is on those wanting to rebalance wealth to prove to the majority that their argument is compelling, not the other way around.

2) I never stated that my opinion is more valuable than anyone else's but merely that some opinions on this thread are more valuable to the debate than others. This debate is about changing map and how we will do it. I feel the suggestion that people with a similar view to myself 'sound lazy' is a judgement based on a complete lack of facts. You don't know enough about my free time to play LoTC, how I played more and have been very active when the time allows. Now I'm back in college, I will have less time and don't want to lose all I have worked for. I 'made hay when the sun shines' as it were. It's nothing to so with laziness.

Reminding me and other readers of the value of server donations is somewhat besides the point since we are both arguing its importance, and merely disagree on how that is best achieved.

Once again, when people bring new proposals to the table, the onus is on them to prove their argument compelling to the majority or at the very least, the decision makers, in order for a change to be adopted. I feel that I have not heard a compelling argument for wealth redistribution at this time. That's all. My previous post explains why in reasonable detail, but it mainly involves the fact that I don't think taking away the things I have worked for is fair. Now demonstrate to me why it is and I might be convinced. But for now, I'm not.

When I started LoTC in the summer, I had nothing but I walked the land passing rich merchants and kings....and worked my way up to where I am now. By your logic what I underwent was unfair - I started way behind some others. Did it bother me that I had nothing at the start? No, of course not. If anything it gave me something to strive for. Why should it bother anyone going into the new world?

Why would it bother anyone that someone is richer than them? It makes for a far more realistic world in my view, especially as I know that they had to work hard to get it. I'm happy for them.

Once again I have taken far too many word to express myself, but this is a life long struggle!

Thanks for reading,

Mog

[Petyr 485]

Hi MrZombez,

Well my thoughts in response to the points you raised are:

1) Just because some people who are wealthy have an opinion that differs from mine in no way diminishes my argument. This is a logical fallacy. I making a point that this is about a change of map, not about any other agenda (like creating an even playing field, for example). I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy with some changes going into the new world, but they may not be necessary, just desirable in some people's view. The change of map is necessary in the opinion of the vast majority of the players and the staff. Rebalancing wealth is far more devisive, and will upset a lot of people. The onus is on those wanting to rebalance wealth to prove to the majority that their argument is compelling, not the other way around.

But it is, lad. It is.

[MrZombez 35]

@Moglets

Your first point seems weighted on your idea that this is simply about map change, which it isn't. As you said about free time, you don't understand what this is about. This is not about simply changing things visually, that would be shallow and in vain. People would get bored knowing that the only change is a visual one. We want to improve things that are great, and remove things that are sub-par. I know that sounds vague, but for the sake of discretion, it is meant to be.

I doubt this will change your opinion, but regardless know that this change is more than just tidying up the place. We want to use our knowledge that we have learned running this server and use it to create a RP experience that people will truly appreciate. While the world itself plays a HUGE role in this, it is all in the details

Also, I want to know whose opinions you deem 'more valuable' in this thread. Please, indulge me.

I am off to bed, I will read the responses in the morning.

[Moglets 4]

Well Petyr, your response make me chuckle. "The New World And You" is a pretty open topic for sure depending on how you interpret it. I took the "New World" to mean the actual physical place, not necessarily wealth redistribution and other such changes.

But sure, no problem talking about that. And I think that if you're looking to bring those kinds of changes the onus is on you to demonstrate why they are necessary or risk upsetting a lot of people.

I am interested in hearing some actual answers to the questions I've raised, as I feel I have been diligent in attempting to respond to others' questions of my opinion.

Cheers,

Mog

[Moglets 4]

Lastly MrZombez, I just read you post there and well if you look through my first post on this thread (page 16), you will see I have quoted three previous posts with opinions I don't find very vaulable to the debate, so by impication, those opinions that opposed these views are. But I feel what I believe to be a more or less valuable view is unimportant to this discussion and it probably pretty boring for others reading this!

In any case, I just wanted to make my points and explain why. I do trust LoTC staff and hold the server in the greatest regard. But there is a strong body of opinion similar to mine and there's no harm in anyone reading our views. If it will influence the decisions then well and good. We're all in this together.

goodnight then :)

Mog

[Gordok (Gropier) 58]

Since many people here are students, this argument might be a bit more understandable if it were put this way...

The school administrators make the following announcement:

Many of the facilities at our school are a bit out of date and we will be making some changes to the school and the campus to take advantage of new technology, to spread things out a bit, and general efficiency & beautification. I am sure that everyone can agree that these changes are for the betterment of the campus, faculty and students alike. It has also come to our attention that there are a disproportionate number of students who have low GPAs compared to the number of students that have high GPAs. Therefore in order to level the playing field, we would like to take some points away from those with high GPAs and give them to those with lower GPAs. We understand that many of you have worked hard for your grades, but you shouldn't have a problem starting over because it all about your experiences here, not what you accomplish. If you do have a problem with it, then you must be lazy.

I don't see any differences with this above analogy to what we have been debating here. Both are completely unfair and ridiculous suggestions.

[sandonthefloor 2]

Since many people here are students, this argument might be a bit more understandable if it were put this way...

The school administrators make the following announcement:

I don't see any differences with this above analogy to what we have been debating here. Both are completely unfair and ridiculous suggestions.

Love this analogy.

Just because a small sum of people who may have a lot of minas want to give all of it away just some completely ridiculous notion of caring for new players. Here's a brilliant concept, the new players can get a job in the new world, and guess what, they will MAKE their money like everyone else, and having rich people should give them the drive to get wealth themselves. You are going to kill a large sum of the player base by taking away their minas.

[Petyr 485]

Actually, every school year, your grades are reset...

[V0idsoldier 1139]

I like the kit idea, but at the same time dislike it. Here is why.

I have been saving money for a long time, and plan to become diamond on the map change, this will hinder me from getting a good kit, because I wont buy it till everything is settled down so I get the most benefit. Basically, i plan to donate soon after the map change, but will miss out on the goody bags XD.

[Gordok (Gropier) 58]

Actually, every school year, your grades are reset...

Not sure where you got to school but in High School and College, your GPA is cumulative.

[Petyr 485]

Not sure where you got to school but in High School and College, your GPA is cumulative.

Yes, but let's say you make an A in math in freshmen year. In your sophomore math class, you don't automatically get a grade, you have to work just as hard to earn and maintain the grade.

I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

[Gordok (Gropier) 58]

Yes, but let's say you make an A in math in freshmen year. In your sophomore math class, you don't automatically get a grade, you have to work just as hard to earn and maintain the grade.

I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

But what we are talking about here is not getting an A in Math, or earning that first suit of diamond armor. We are talking about the cumulative accomplishments of a character's entire time on the server to date.

[Petyr 485]

You guys don't even know how/if/why/when the map will change. There will be lore and events and exciting things, and everything will be explained... we don't do things to purposely turn off players, you know.

[ayresalex 517]

Kits, tighter control on guilds, no building near main roads, no random ugly keeps, and mushroom people. Let's roll.

[Gordok (Gropier) 58]

You guys don't even know how/if/why/when the map will change. There will be lore and events and exciting things, and everything will be explained... we don't do things to purposely turn off players, you know.

I have no doubt that there will be plenty of lore, events and exciting things. But for some, who have personal goals for their character and are RPing the process of attaining those personal goals, the overall world lore and events don't mean as much. I happen to be one of those players. I am sorry, but I just don't have time to follow the world lore and I don't enjoy that as much. BWT, my character goals are not the accumulation of wealth, wealth is the vehicle to achieve those goals. To be honest, I believe that there are many players who feel the same way. I know it sucks to hear that, but I believe it to be more true than people are willing to admit. I ran an RP Game server (Neverwinter Nights) for seven years and I tried my best to get the player base involved in the world lore, but it ended up only being important to only about 20% of the player base.

I firmly believe that in this case, if you take the character's hard earned accomplishments, it will turn many players off. Partly because they lost the items and minas, but mostly because they will feel betrayed and will always wonder if and when it will happen again. I know that is how I will feel. I won't leave the server, but its only because I have donated and i am invested. But I will not enjoy having to start my character's personal goals from the start again. If I had not donated, or my money were refunded, I would leave the server and I would hate leaving, because I have very much enjoyed my time here.