[✗] [Magic Lore] Hydromancy

[DISCOLIQUID 1963]

Tier Five Conjurationists, by means of evoking life itself, are able to heal. You could create a spell that made "purifying waters". It certainly couldn't regrow fingers, but maybe solve burns or remove corruption. A suggestion made lightly, as yes, voidal healing is tip toe'd around. 

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

10 hours ago, ClassyBells said:

Also remember that most one to two slot magics that don't have a lot of combative spells lack them because they also have no negative consequences for obtaining that magic. Voidal magic makes you a frail, exhausted noodle.

Out of all voidal magic users, I'd give a solid 5% of them actually RP being a frail, exhausted noodle. The other 95% act as if they're the strongest descendant while wielding their magic, which is equally as big of an issue as 1 slot combat magics stacking onto 1 character are. I'd rather see characters master 2-3 magics at a max rather than them stacking 5 one slot magics that are all tier 5. 

As for my previous comment, those were just examples I was tossing out into the air. I am saying just be more open and creative with your ideas. If you're able to manipulate weather and climate, this means you can also manipulate the moisture in the air, quite literally. Allowing you to control evaporation and create bodies of water. It doesnt make sense why you wouldnt be able to do those things if you are putting in an ability that already controls climate.

 

6 hours ago, Samler said:

'from conjuring small bodies of water from seemingly nothing' That is the basis of the entire magic already.
So the ability to create fog, would be dubious as Fire Evocation can create smoke and Air Evocation can create fog. Don't want to step on their toes.

There are many magics that share similar abilities. Many magics allow users to float above the ground, many magics allow themselves to be disguised. Stepping on toes is irrelevant. You can have the same ability just performed in a different fashion with its own unique flare.

By conjuring small bodies of water, I mean you can create a small pool of water to be used to gather drinking water or for something else. Theres isnt really any specific ability in the magic that does this. You need to specify abilities like this, regardless if its the "basis" or not. If there is no specific guideline or redline for an ability like that, then you realistically cant cast something like that as it'd be going against the lore and abilities of the magic.

1 hour ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

Tier Five Conjurationists, by means of evoking life itself, are able to heal. You could create a spell that made "purifying waters". It certainly couldn't regrow fingers, but maybe solve burns or remove corruption. A suggestion made lightly, as yes, voidal healing is tip toe'd around. 

Double posting but I agree with this. Purifying waters is an excellent non-combative addition.

[Mr. Etan 2847]

1 hour ago, Luxury said:

This is unironically my favorite line in this lore. Don’t get me wrong Tox, I love seeing fresh writing. It’s like bread right out of the oven.

 

Listen I don't need the d*uids over here saying my void water is causing AGONY. ;)

1 hour ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

Tier Five Conjurationists, by means of evoking life itself, are able to heal. You could create a spell that made "purifying waters". It certainly couldn't regrow fingers, but maybe solve burns or remove corruption. A suggestion made lightly, as yes, voidal healing is tip toe'd around. 

 

Hm hm hm.. How would the rejuvenating waters heal you think? It needs to make *alittle* sense even if its maygick. Toss me a suggestion.

[Mr. Etan 2847]

@TeawithFrisket @DISCOLIQUID and anyone else interested in possible healing waters..

 

 

Should the branch of healing water evocation spells require a 2nd slot dedicated to Water Evo? Just a thought. 

[Samler 1047]

6 hours ago, Mr. Etan said:

ad to see you Samler! Glad you like the write thus far.

 

I understand the want to make whatever surface made wet becomes dry, but I also want magic to have odd and whymsical properties that can't be very easily explained.. Like why is that towel still wet after the evocations gone? And when I wring out out.. wheres the water? Etc. Let me know what you think.

 

As for liquid mixing - I think water evocation shouldn't mix with liquids, thus it can be used as a cup of sort for perhaps moving liquids? Useful utility there for sure.

 

Thanks for the feedback on Stormcall I'm in love with the idea of making storms with magic. I was actually thinking of making it so if one summons rains the pressure from the artificial water causes real rain to mix in - so perhaps it can be used to help aid drying fields and water large farms?

 

As always, Thanks for the feedback!

Agree with Quarts on the surface one, but I suppose nothing stops you from making a minor enchanted item which is wet untill someone tries to remove that. :)

So far I have used water to 'incapsulate' and with movement, keep it in the center-ish of the water while moving it through currents. 

I wouldn't mind the idea of Stormcall able to press the real water out from the sky, but fear the Green Tags would hate it. :(

[sam33497 2793]

I'd say keep the niche of healing within things like alchemy and paladinism, healing waters seems a bit too thematically 'nice' for magic which comes from the evil dimension (and theme does matter with these types of things)

  

52 minutes ago, Mr. Etan said:

@TeawithFrisket @DISCOLIQUID and anyone else interested in possible healing waters..

 

 

Should the branch of healing water evocation spells require a 2nd slot dedicated to Water Evo? Just a thought. 

 

[Mr. Etan 2847]

3 minutes ago, sam33497 said:

I'd say keep the niche of healing within things like alchemy and paladinism, healing waters seems a bit too thematically 'nice' for magic which comes from the evil dimension (and theme does matter with these types of things)

  

 

 

This was my thought too really. Thats why I was thinking it could be more 'indirect' healing like using water with pressure to stop active bleeding or to cast broken bones until they get proper healing - sort of like how fire evo can cauterize wounds but you'll still want a medic after. What do you think about that?

[sam33497 2793]

36 minutes ago, Mr. Etan said:

 

This was my thought too really. Thats why I was thinking it could be more 'indirect' healing like using water with pressure to stop active bleeding or to cast broken bones until they get proper healing - sort of like how fire evo can cauterize wounds but you'll still want a medic after. What do you think about that?

IMO an ice spell which freezes a wound in order to stop it bleeding alike cauterize sounds like a neat addition, though i could see complaints about niches overlapping between the magics

[Songwitch 1440]

i don't like it simply because there is nothing in this rewrite that actually changes anything from current lore in terms of either theme, mechanics, or overall conceptualization. it just seems like a new format was slapped on it with a few re-named abilities and reworded paragraphs (no offense). my suggestion to you when you write lore is that you actually write it with other people; i have worked solo on my own projects before and they have not gone according to what i had envisioned, not by a long shot. what you need is somebody reviewing what you write before you go ahead and post it, and you should probably give your lore submissions a bit of time to either let other insightful readers provide you with their opinions or so that you can ensure that the piece will actually be any distinguishable from current lore (because being brutally honest, expanding on the only tier five ability and dividing it in three types does not really achieve the purpose of a rewrite). format is pretty but other than that, what has actually changed in the magic? 

overall i personally don't like reinforcing the (very true) stereotype that voidal evocations are solely and purely intended for combat. i'd rather see rewrites that actually aim towards detracting from this stigma and not pieces that have been rushily written for no particular reason (because this could have come way sooner and in a much more drastic bundle of changes). 

[Mr. Etan 2847]

4 hours ago, VictoriaMinaj said:

i don't like it simply because there is nothing in this rewrite that actually changes anything from current lore in terms of either theme, mechanics, or overall conceptualization. it just seems like a new format was slapped on it with a few re-named abilities and reworded paragraphs (no offense). my suggestion to you when you write lore is that you actually write it with other people; i have worked solo on my own projects before and they have not gone according to what i had envisioned, not by a long shot. what you need is somebody reviewing what you write before you go ahead and post it, and you should probably give your lore submissions a bit of time to either let other insightful readers provide you with their opinions or so that you can ensure that the piece will actually be any distinguishable from current lore (because being brutally honest, expanding on the only tier five ability and dividing it in three types does not really achieve the purpose of a rewrite). format is pretty but other than that, what has actually changed in the magic? 

overall i personally don't like reinforcing the (very true) stereotype that voidal evocations are solely and purely intended for combat. i'd rather see rewrites that actually aim towards detracting from this stigma and not pieces that have been rushily written for no particular reason (because this could have come way sooner and in a much more drastic bundle of changes). 

 

Hi Songwitch I appreciate yout feedback! I feel that you may have accidentally missed the changes and clarifications I have added to the lore that greatly improve overall on the lore quality it certainly is a rewrite. Understandably as sometimes the small details can be missed. Heres a breakdown!

 

Properties of Water changes:

 

-Clarification that it cannot mix with liquids

-Clarification on how it interacts with nature

-Clarification on how long it takes to freeze or evaporate evoked water when interacted with intense elements

-Clarification on the different non combat aesthetics that one can evoke their water as. 

 

Spell Changes:

 

Evoke Water / Ice was left alone as its honestly extremely freeform. This can be shaped into ANY non combat spell or use that one can come up with so long it doesnt break red lines. We shouldn't need to list out a million spells as non combat use when we can be open and free form about it.

 

Water Projectile had some changes.

-Clarifaction on the force it has, how it hits as a semi solid

-added scaling power so progression from novice to master is reflected

 

Water barrier

-Made it so it can be placed within range of the mage not just infront of them.

-Clarified that the water is rushing and moving, so blades can't just slash through them anymore that didn't make sense, can still be peirced

-*ADDED* A partial barrier called 'Redirective Water' which allows one to use flowing water to redirect projectiles aimed at them. 

 

Water Whip

-Clarified the type of damage it does

-Clarified the whip needs to be HELD.

-Clarified the whip is effective against skin only.

-*ADDED* a single lash ability to it, allowing for quick strikes or quick blocks

 

Ice Projectile

-Added clarification of the impact damage of ice which was missing on current lore.

-Add the ability to change the projectiles sizes, which effect impact.

-Added better clarification on multiple charged projectiles.

 

Summon Wave

-Added a tell for the creation of the wave

-Added a much needed speed for the wave, which was missing in current lore.

-Clarified what happens to the wave is the mage is interrupted mid cast.

-Clarified the force behind it

 

Ice Spike

-Changed it from being useless to an actual trap with a telegraphed area of effect

-*ADDED* a single spike version of the spell that is more powerful, but only one single area.

-Clarified on the impact damage of ice spikes, which is missing in current lore.

 

Ice Barrier

-Merged the Ice Barrier and Dome together for easier understanding.

-Better clarified the amount of emotes to break the ice from impacts, which was missing in current lore.

-Made it so the walls could be placed in range rather than in front

-Clarified the ice to be transparent, which previous ice was only semi for some reason.

-Better clarification on what you can or cant do while holding the barrier

 

Storm Call

**BRAND NEW SPELL**

Complete got rid of the old useless ice storm and replaced it with a storm call spell that has 3 variations, all of them have UTILITY use instead of pure combat use.

 

The rainstorm is harmless, and simply reduces visibility and can also be used in roleplay to help bring actual rain to dry areas.

 

The slush storm is a field effect to hinder movement.

 

The ice storm is an annoyance hinderence.

 

 

I added to enchanting a new DEEP ICED, Which is super strong ice that is bound to Arcanium frames for use of Art, Gates, or weapons which is a nice, useful enhancement to enchantment.

 

 

 

I would argue, with my changes above, that there is Significant change done to the lore that warranted a rewrite. It was not hastily written I did spend the time purely focusing on the writing. I posted the lore hoping to get feedback and opinions from *everyone* interested. This is why I did not work with anyone else because often when this is done, it can become a feedback loop of people who want the same things, and it doesn't allow diverse opinions such as yours and others that were already posted. 

 

I truly appreciate you taking the time to express your feedback, and I hope this feedback will help sway your opinion that there were no significant changes, and then, perhaps provide feedback on these changes so we can better improve this lore together.

[IsaaKc 1225]

On 4/6/2023 at 11:45 PM, Cloakedsphere said:

I disagree heavily with a purely combative magic (aside from your 1 non-combative spell) being a 1 slot magic all the way to tier 5. Thats my biggest gripe. Quite the powerful magic for 1 slot all the way up to tier 5.

 

This is literally the current accepted lore with a few tweaks. I don't want to be accusatory but it seems like you literally saw the "combat" and "non-combat" marks and wrote a comment based off of that.

14 hours ago, VictoriaMinaj said:

overall i personally don't like reinforcing the (very true) stereotype that voidal evocations are solely and purely intended for combat. i'd rather see rewrites that actually aim towards detracting from this stigma and not pieces that have been rushily written for no particular reason (because this could have come way sooner and in a much more drastic bundle of changes). 

Everyone always talks about steering evocation "away from combat" but no one gives suggestions. Do you have any specific ideas?

To me, it's less about making it """more""" combative as you have insinuated this rewrite has done, and more about trying to actually conjure up interesting ideas of how you could further expand on evocation without bloating it/going beyond the one slot boundaries.

Edited April 9, 2023 by IsaaKc

[Cloakedsphere 1462]

1 hour ago, IsaaKc said:

This is literally the current accepted lore with a few tweaks. I don't want to be accusatory but it seems like you literally saw the "combat" and "non-combat" marks and wrote a combat based off of that.

Nope. I actually read through the entirety of this submission. Refer to my other comments for further explanations. 
When every spell is a combat spell aside from 1, it is a combat magic. When the spells allow you to ultimately control things such as weather and climate (quite literally area altering abilities) with no real downside to the caster and it being 1 slot all the way up to tier 5, is where I have an issue. My issue doesnt only stand with just water evocation, but, all heavily combative magics that grant extremely strong abilities at little to no cost to the user both IC and OOC while allowing you to min-max multiple (3+) tier 5 magics onto a singular character. Regardless of what is accepted now or whether this gets accepted or not, I think the slotting should change and I am voicing my opinion on that.

[IsaaKc 1225]

3 hours ago, Cloakedsphere said:

My issue doesnt only stand with just water evocation, but, all heavily combative magics that grant extremely strong abilities at little to no cost to the user both IC and OOC while allowing you to min-max multiple (3+) tier 5 magics onto a singular character. Regardless of what is accepted now or whether this gets accepted or not, I think the slotting should change and I am voicing my opinion on that.

Well then your issue seems to be more related to the current criteria set by the Story Team. You're entitled to thinking that way of course, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. The author here is merely following current standards. If you feel strongly about how slotting works, I would suggest voicing that to the ST.

[Morigung-oog 2351]

On 4/7/2023 at 5:31 PM, Cloakedsphere said:

Out of all voidal magic users, I'd give a solid 5% of them actually RP being a frail, exhausted noodle. The other 95% act as if they're the strongest descendant while wielding their magic, which is equally as big of an issue as 1 slot combat magics stacking onto 1 character are. I'd rather see characters master 2-3 magics at a max rather than them stacking 5 one slot magics that are all tier 5. 

As for my previous comment, those were just examples I was tossing out into the air. I am saying just be more open and creative with your ideas. If you're able to manipulate weather and climate, this means you can also manipulate the moisture in the air, quite literally. Allowing you to control evaporation and create bodies of water. It doesnt make sense why you wouldnt be able to do those things if you are putting in an ability that already controls climate.

 

There are many magics that share similar abilities. Many magics allow users to float above the ground, many magics allow themselves to be disguised. Stepping on toes is irrelevant. You can have the same ability just performed in a different fashion with its own unique flare.

By conjuring small bodies of water, I mean you can create a small pool of water to be used to gather drinking water or for something else. Theres isnt really any specific ability in the magic that does this. You need to specify abilities like this, regardless if its the "basis" or not. If there is no specific guideline or redline for an ability like that, then you realistically cant cast something like that as it'd be going against the lore and abilities of the magic.

Double posting but I agree with this. Purifying waters is an excellent non-combative addition.

 

I went in the opposite direction. A Scion. Helps me justify irp strength in a balanced way that's fun to roleplay out.

[Songwitch 1440]

20 hours ago, Mr. Etan said:

 

Hi Songwitch I appreciate yout feedback! I feel that you may have accidentally missed the changes and clarifications I have added to the lore that greatly improve overall on the lore quality it certainly is a rewrite. Understandably as sometimes the small details can be missed. Heres a breakdown!

 

Properties of Water changes:

 

-Clarification that it cannot mix with liquids

-Clarification on how it interacts with nature

-Clarification on how long it takes to freeze or evaporate evoked water when interacted with intense elements

-Clarification on the different non combat aesthetics that one can evoke their water as. 

 

Spell Changes:

 

Evoke Water / Ice was left alone as its honestly extremely freeform. This can be shaped into ANY non combat spell or use that one can come up with so long it doesnt break red lines. We shouldn't need to list out a million spells as non combat use when we can be open and free form about it.

 

Water Projectile had some changes.

-Clarifaction on the force it has, how it hits as a semi solid

-added scaling power so progression from novice to master is reflected

 

Water barrier

-Made it so it can be placed within range of the mage not just infront of them.

-Clarified that the water is rushing and moving, so blades can't just slash through them anymore that didn't make sense, can still be peirced

-*ADDED* A partial barrier called 'Redirective Water' which allows one to use flowing water to redirect projectiles aimed at them. 

 

Water Whip

-Clarified the type of damage it does

-Clarified the whip needs to be HELD.

-Clarified the whip is effective against skin only.

-*ADDED* a single lash ability to it, allowing for quick strikes or quick blocks

 

Ice Projectile

-Added clarification of the impact damage of ice which was missing on current lore.

-Add the ability to change the projectiles sizes, which effect impact.

-Added better clarification on multiple charged projectiles.

 

Summon Wave

-Added a tell for the creation of the wave

-Added a much needed speed for the wave, which was missing in current lore.

-Clarified what happens to the wave is the mage is interrupted mid cast.

-Clarified the force behind it

 

Ice Spike

-Changed it from being useless to an actual trap with a telegraphed area of effect

-*ADDED* a single spike version of the spell that is more powerful, but only one single area.

-Clarified on the impact damage of ice spikes, which is missing in current lore.

 

Ice Barrier

-Merged the Ice Barrier and Dome together for easier understanding.

-Better clarified the amount of emotes to break the ice from impacts, which was missing in current lore.

-Made it so the walls could be placed in range rather than in front

-Clarified the ice to be transparent, which previous ice was only semi for some reason.

-Better clarification on what you can or cant do while holding the barrier

 

Storm Call

**BRAND NEW SPELL**

Complete got rid of the old useless ice storm and replaced it with a storm call spell that has 3 variations, all of them have UTILITY use instead of pure combat use.

 

The rainstorm is harmless, and simply reduces visibility and can also be used in roleplay to help bring actual rain to dry areas.

 

The slush storm is a field effect to hinder movement.

 

The ice storm is an annoyance hinderence.

 

 

I added to enchanting a new DEEP ICED, Which is super strong ice that is bound to Arcanium frames for use of Art, Gates, or weapons which is a nice, useful enhancement to enchantment.

 

 

 

I would argue, with my changes above, that there is Significant change done to the lore that warranted a rewrite. It was not hastily written I did spend the time purely focusing on the writing. I posted the lore hoping to get feedback and opinions from *everyone* interested. This is why I did not work with anyone else because often when this is done, it can become a feedback loop of people who want the same things, and it doesn't allow diverse opinions such as yours and others that were already posted. 

 

I truly appreciate you taking the time to express your feedback, and I hope this feedback will help sway your opinion that there were no significant changes, and then, perhaps provide feedback on these changes so we can better improve this lore together.

 

I really don't want to discredit your work, but this does not execute the purpose or the effects of an actual rewrite and while, sure, semantics and interchangeable words do not matter much, all I can see here is that existing spells from the current lore page have simply been expanded upon with further detail (that it had been lacking up until now) that had been missing from the submission as a whole. Clearly, I appreciate that some spells were given the same love that other evocations have, but I'd like to go in-depth about these changes that you have kindly highlighted for me. 

 

Half of the water's properties redlines are already within current lore. The nature-druid interaction is rather interesting and I am glad that people are taking it into consideration whenever they write anything that may otherwise potentially harm nature, and while I will delve not much in this aspect because I personally think that evoked water (as being from the Void) shoud provoke a twisted song, I'd like to say that I cannot really see any of these new changes other than a few reworded paragraphs AND in actuality, I have just noticed that there are some crucial redlines missing from this rewrite such as the following: 

 

(Water Properties)

"Water cannot be consumed nor provide any nutrients, due to the fact that it requires line of sight and maintenance from the caster. Should one attempt to ingest it, they will receive no benefit as the water would simply vanish the second it leaves the mage’s sight."

 

I'm unsure whether you had intended this for whatever reason, or if it was simply missed, but overall the point that I am trying to get across is that this submission only seems like an amendment post made and based in on the rest of evocations, taking after their "unique" spells (this is not an attempt at making a 'dig' or anything, i'm putting it in quotes because literally every spell across the evocations is one way or the other the same in terms of capacity). I understand that this magic is underwhelming and rather underpowered in comparison with any other voidal evocation, but why should that matter? Why do the four evocations need to be on par with one another in terms of combat practicality and utility? The answer is they do not. I don't think each one of them should be arguably as "strong" as one another.. There is so much more that could be achieved through voidal magic if we simply shifted from the way we do and have been doing things. Again, I just don't like this submission simply because despite the amount of detail that has been further implemented into the abilities, in its most devolved and natural form, the lore has not changed. It is the same stuff--the same abilities with slightly more detailed interactions and further defined ways of casting each spell (such as for water whip and storm calling, which by the way i do not consider to be a completely new ability because that is literally and without any offense hailstorm divided in three different types; water, ice, snow). When I hear the word rewrite, I expect drastic change. Something (actually) completely new and different to current, old lore. I have always thought that every evocation should have different ability arsenals and/or mechanics that solely vary on the fact that each element is different; studying earth is not like studying air, or water, or even fire, and this should be reflected somehow. Water does an exceptional job at fulfilling the "defensive" archetype (even if it has not been executed well with the currently accepted submission) and its abilities absolutely could resemble this conceptualization. These could be replaced by non-conventional and non-generic abilities that could distinguish water evocation from the rest instead of slightly thematically different variances of the other evocations' abilities (like the ones i have mentioned and now for example this write's water barrier being able to mimick the deflect ability from air evocation). Overall I just would like to see spells that are somewhat unique to each evocation rather than have all of them do the same thing to some degree (as all of them share the same combat capacity due to their abilities being what some would assume to be copy and pasted mechanics). My headcanon for water was versatility and/or protection/utility, like keeping water shield, water whip and water wave/summon wave (this ability is actually in current lore, you may have missed it), but getting rid of the rest and replace them with other new abilities that better suit the whole concept of letting water distinguish itself from the other elements. Some abilities I had in mind were: (1) water geyser (replacement of water projectile/blast), allowing water mages to have access to a somewhat combative ability that is arguably unique to its theme and elemental perception; or (2) water shield/tidemaking (replacement for water shield with an extended mechanic that unlocks based on tier progression), allowing water mages to summon their own variation of a shield spell while also being able to, at later tiers, cast the same spell but on a larger scale, allowing them to summon a tide and encase their enemy in what would be a cage/trap (this is bit anime lol but i thought that water evocation could potentially do very cool stuff if and when properly put into words). I have more ideas that I have been noting down over the last few months as I admittedly have been working on a large project to completely overhaul voidal magic as a whole (a project that i have shamelessly neglected), and I will be more than glad to share them with you in private. 

 

"I added to enchanting a new DEEP ICED, Which is super strong ice that is bound to Arcanium frames for use of Art, Gates, or weapons which is a nice, useful enhancement to enchantment." I'm particularly not too fond of this either because I personally think it may infringe on the overall niche that Frost Witches have regarding ice manipulation and cursed ice (which is basicaly deep iced but non-void sourced). This is just a personal nitpick and irrelevant to the point that I am trying to make above. 

 

Nevertheless I am glad to see that efforts are still being made to water evocation, and while I do not really support the idea that this suffices the purpose behind a rewrite, few of these changes do highlight some details that have been missing from the lore page for a while (such as for water whip, particularly enjoyed the clarification on that one). 

 

16 hours ago, IsaaKc said:

Everyone always talks about steering evocation "away from combat" but no one gives suggestions. Do you have any specific ideas?

To me, it's less about making it """more""" combative as you have insinuated this rewrite has done, and more about trying to actually conjure up interesting ideas of how you could further expand on evocation without bloating it/going beyond the one slot boundaries.

 

Please refer to the message above.