Damnit_Delmar 1068 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Simple change, and suggestion, all I would like to recommend is the changing of Seer Compatibility Current Compatibility Spoiler Seer is compatible with: Feats: all Void magics: all Deity magics: paladinism, druidism, shamanism, templars, heraldry Dark magics: necromancy, blood magic, mysticism, naztherak Misc: kani, housemagery And Ologs, kharajyr, hou-zi, azdrazi, epiphytes (inaccessible while underage after rebirth, upon coming of age they lose their sight and therein can use seer again), frost witches, siliti (so long as they are turned after being a seer), and klones (so long as the inhabited body is blind, a non-blind body makes the feat/magic inaccessible). Seer is incompatible with sorvians, vargs, ghosts/gravens, paleknights, wights, liches, darkstalkers, sprites, atronachs, animii, golems, anthroparions, zevn and zar’ei, musin, wonks, demi-djinn, homunculi, zar’akal, and treelords. New Compatibility Spoiler Seer is compatible with: Feats: all Void magics: all Deity magics: paladinism, druidism, shamanism, templars, heraldry Dark magics: necromancy, blood magic, mysticism, naztherak Misc: kani, housemagery And Ologs, kharajyr, hou-zi, azdrazi, epiphytes, frost witches, siliti, liches (so long as they are turned after being a seer), and klones (so long as the inhabited body is blind, a non-blind body makes the feat/magic inaccessible). Seer is incompatible with sorvians, vargs, ghosts/gravens, paleknights, wights, darkstalkers, sprites, atronachs, animii, golems, anthroparions, zevn and zar’ei, musin, wonks, demi-djinn, homunculi, zar’akal, and treelords. Reason The simple reason, is because over all the concept is very interesting and unique. Imagine the aesthetic of an old, all knowing lich, one who masterminds behind the scenes and uses his influence with both his living students and fellow undead brethren, to mastermind large decade old schemes. Another concept might be a cult leader of a group of humans, one who is under the guise of this 'Old Patron' who in actuality is just some undead necromancer, creating random cults to go against one another. Mechanically speaking however, Necromancers already hold the capability to slot into it, un-impeded and un-hindered. Likewise once you become a lich, you gain an additional slot free, leaving not only viability to progress fully as one. But also, offering no real issues or complications, not only due to the ability to place in eye modifictions.(Such as Corpse Sight), but also just being able to corpse-craft eyes upon the body of the lich. Lastly, due to the nature of Vaseek and his nonchalance with all forms of entities gaining his 'blessing', it still would comply thematically with lore to allow such. Big thanks to Zarsies for giving me greenlight to post this 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassyDryad 1733 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Would you mind removing the thing about epiphytes being unable to use it during rebirth for me as well? The new epiphyte lore does not make them children after rebirth so they would be able to use it as normal. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphvius 428 Share Posted April 11, 2023 +1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnit_Delmar 1068 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 1 hour ago, ClassyBells said: Would you mind removing the thing about epiphytes being unable to use it during rebirth for me as well? The new epiphyte lore does not make them children after rebirth so they would be able to use it as normal. I would not! Edits shall be added to help the epiphytes! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloakedsphere 1462 Share Posted April 11, 2023 What it seems/sounds like is that the reasoning is mainly because you think it'd be neat to incorporate it into liches. But wouldn't that apply to a majority of the other non-compatibles as well? I think there needs to be some more reasoning as to why seers couldnt become a lich and retain seer. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valannor 6345 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Concur with Cloakedsphere entirely. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnit_Delmar 1068 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 58 minutes ago, Cloakedsphere said: But wouldn't that apply to a majority of the other non-compatibles as well To my knowledge, and I could be wrong, many of the others that are incompatible. Stem from either the inability for slot count, Zarakal for example, take 5 slots to ascend. Likewise with Frost Mothers, Tree Lords(I could be wrong with this). Vargs and Wights. As for the others, I do believe those stem from them no longer holding any slots or holding a greater soul capable of magic. Big difference however is that where most CAs bump up the slot count,Lich reduces it, thereby theoretically allowing for them to take on more magic. However in the current write, that magic is sadly limited to voidal and misc magic only. Hence why with something like this, it not only would allow for greater themes(since I know some necro players, like to go with 'void is heresy' theme). But genuinely doesn't do anything too crazy. Though I do thank you for the feedback, good critiques Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonke 1873 Share Posted April 11, 2023 Make them compatible with machine spirits, do it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassyDryad 1733 Share Posted April 11, 2023 3 hours ago, SilvertheGM said: I would not! Edits shall be added to help the epiphytes! Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnit_Delmar 1068 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 7 hours ago, lemonke said: compatible with machine spirits I would, however I do believe somewhere in Automata lore it states Machine Spirit incompatibility, due to Gaurmiders(However spell his name) influence. Though I'll be honest, I do think they should be compatible, perhaps it's something to bring up and talk to more experienced Automata Crafters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonke 1873 Share Posted April 11, 2023 13 minutes ago, SilvertheGM said: I would, however I do believe somewhere in Automata lore it states Machine Spirit incompatibility, due to Gaurmiders(However spell his name) influence. Though I'll be honest, I do think they should be compatible, perhaps it's something to bring up and talk to more experienced Automata Crafters. Even other lore such as templarism says divine magics aren't compatible and so on. Vaseek's influence is hidden to all, so it would make sense for a machine spirit. I was told to make a MART for it; since they can't become Seers for the same reasons of the lich peeps. The no-real eyes thing 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnit_Delmar 1068 Author Share Posted April 11, 2023 6 hours ago, lemonke said: 6 hours ago, SilvertheGM said: Expand Even other lore such as templarism says divine magics aren't compatible and so on. Vaseek's influence is hidden to all, so it would make sense for a machine spirit. I was told to make a MART for it; since they can't become Seers for the same reasons of the lich peeps. The no-real eyes thing Honestly agreed, tho in regards to lich, it's funny because nothing stops you from having eyes. There is even modification, like corpse eye, that give you eyes that make you part blind. I agree tho that machine spirits should be able to. Since I know of some folk who are Automata, where a machine priest aesthetic would be dope 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonke 1873 Share Posted April 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, SilvertheGM said: Honestly agreed, tho in regards to lich, it's funny because nothing stops you from having eyes. There is even modification, like corpse eye, that give you eyes that make you part blind. I agree tho that machine spirits should be able to. Since I know of some folk who are Automata, where a machine priest aesthetic would be dope THE FLESH IS WEAK AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. but yuh yuh, happy to see more people wanting to expand the seer archetype to other funky creatures! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloakedsphere 1462 Share Posted April 12, 2023 22 hours ago, SilvertheGM said: To my knowledge, and I could be wrong, many of the others that are incompatible. Stem from either the inability for slot count, Zarakal for example, take 5 slots to ascend. Likewise with Frost Mothers, Tree Lords(I could be wrong with this). Vargs and Wights. As for the others, I do believe those stem from them no longer holding any slots or holding a greater soul capable of magic. Big difference however is that where most CAs bump up the slot count,Lich reduces it, thereby theoretically allowing for them to take on more magic. However in the current write, that magic is sadly limited to voidal and misc magic only. Hence why with something like this, it not only would allow for greater themes(since I know some necro players, like to go with 'void is heresy' theme). But genuinely doesn't do anything too crazy. Though I do thank you for the feedback, good critiques I honestly dont see how your amendment would really hurt anything in the short or long term. But allowing Liches just means that many other non-compatibles would also have to be added (as valannor said when I discussed this with them, darkstalkers, wights, etc.). But what does changing this compatibility do overall for Liches that they couldnt already do without seer? Cant liches already hide themselves, receive visions, and also create cults? Im just wondering what do Liches gain from being a seer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damnit_Delmar 1068 Author Share Posted April 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Cloakedsphere said: But what does changing this compatibility do overall for Liches that they couldnt already do without seer? Cant liches already hide themselves, receive visions, and also create cults? Im just wondering what do Liches gain from being a seer. Ah good question, in the short term, not really no. While they can kind of flesh-smith a fake body and use draught of incite, from what I have gathered, it is not entirely effective. Cults are a given, yes, same with all forms of dark magics. However as far as seeing visions, that is a big no, unless they are somehow a barrowborn or some other vision seeing FA/Magic. In terms of what they gain? Well for starters, if they where a seer prior to being a lich, becoming a lich doesn't change much in terms of abilities. As with the current write, the only 'abilities' really are the immortality of becoming an undead, gaining another necro mod slot, as well as necromancy turning from a four slot to a three slot magic. Additionally as of current, only voidal magic and misc magic is compatible with Arch-Lich. So what do liches gain from becoming a seer? The just general ability to see visions is a first. Additionally they gain access to things such as sow fallacy as well as the ability for charade(Being able to theme their magic, most certainly the healing portion, as some 'holy' cure. Allows you to trick and deceive better). Appraising items is also a wonderful thing, searching for magical artifacts to perhaps conduct schemes. Then you've got Reading, the general ability to view and gain inferences on an individual's motives/emotions. Then with the potential addition and ability to use second slot seer, such as being able to 'manipulate fate' with large eldritch prophecies. Scrying for more information within the world, and Heith-Hedran, there is a whole lot that a lich would gain the ability and access to do. 16 minutes ago, Cloakedsphere said: But allowing Liches just means that many other non-compatibles would also have to be added (as valannor said when I discussed this with them, darkstalkers, wights, etc.). Wanted to just briefly comment on this, truthfully with things like the Wights and Machine Spirits for example, makes total sense imo. Would be really cool, only reason I would not think something should be capable is due to 'full' slot system. Aka things like Darkstalker and Automata Crafter made Automata, not holding either a soul, or their being entirely focused upon one thing/soul being lessened to a tremendous degree. Either way, thanks again for the good questions, they are very fair points that I'm glad I can talk/explain out on here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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