[✗] [Hub] Necromancy

[NightcastorKitty 2780]

I don't normally comment on submissions usually because well, I review them.  This one I need to however give a bit of feedback. Namely of it labelling as a 'Hub Page' for the MAs, FAs, CAs, whatever there is on here. Basically, a Hub Page is more for a quick brief summary and then links to go to find the source of information. Not really a uhh, well lore smack which you then need to go to the piece to get even more lore dumped upon. Its basically a guide reference. And I would honestly prefer the current Necromancy Hub over this namely on the fact of how it leads you to where you need to go and gives quick refs. (obviously I'm not going to dive into the nonsense of the lore itself being in 3-4 pieces of reference on a single spell, but you get my point). I would highly.. highly  recommend you look at several more updated current ones to get an idea on what to do with the Hub Page. 
 

 

 

[Werew0lf 24180]

12 minutes ago, Rhettthecoldone said:

I really don’t know how to feel about this new “necromancy”. It no longer feels like the manipulation of corporeal dead, but just Mysticism with a few necromancy abilities slapped onto it. On the other hand, I really enjoy the aesthetics and new abilities, but it doesn’t feel like necromancy anymore. For a long, long time I feel, there has been a clear distinction between Necromancy and Mysticism…

 

Mysticism - the manipulation of Incorporeal Undead through Ectoplasm.

Necromancy - the manipulation of Corporeal Undead through Lifeforce

 

…and this magic just feels like a bloated, mashed together version of the two that heavily neglects the corporeal undead side of the two.

 

As for things affecting my very own character, a lot of changes have been made to the mental effects and urges of these new “necromancers”. It is extremely detrimental to my characters story when all of the sudden, he no longer has an urge of cannibalism and no longer is pained with shame and regret of what he’s become by the urges. I’ve roleplayed my character in such a way that those urges define a lot of his personality. When this magic is accepted (if it does), that will all just disappear? And for that reason specifically I really just don’t love it. It doesn’t incorporate necromancy enough and simply feels like a rewrite of Mysticism.

 

there are definitely quite a bit more things I would like to bitch about but ima just chill :D

 

I'm going to answer for Zarsies and Mordu since I believe this follows the common sense clause.

 

If your character is roleplayed as being a cannibal with shame and regret, I don't think you have to change the way your roleplaying the character... this seems like a very minute nitpick. 

[Turbo_Dog 3567]

10 hours ago, The King Of The Moon said:

Those with Gravesight are able to see clearly through phantom invisibility as well as the Shroud and Deadbreath spells as well as in Entombed land. They cannot see disembodied geists or strays in the Elysian Wastes, nor reavers using the Fade spell. 

Would those with the corpse sight modification get any compensation or ability to change their modification out due to this? While this ability doesn’t completely eliminate its use and uniqueness I feel it infringes on it and the purpose of the modification 

[The King Of The Moon 7016]

On 3/9/2025 at 3:49 PM, Werew0lf said:

We also spoke about this, but it is clear this lore was posted in a rush so that you guys would make the next lore mags. FYI that isn't how lore mags works, you could have taken the time to gather some feedback and actually implement it before posting. I was told that the abilities would be hardboiled and shrunk since the language used was not friendly or accommodating to the general player-base and might even confuse some ST when making lore verdicts , this was not the case.

 

I'm not sure who you spoke to this about but I thought before processing the rest of your feedback I'd be very clear here: I have no idea what you're talking about with this one.

This lore has been a work in progress on and off since August 2024, revising an initial concept from all the way back in June 2018. Work slowed after Pallodium's Abyss Knight submission threatened to take the wind out of reaving's sails and then steam picked up again around early February in light of more and more glaring issues with the current states of necromancy and mysticism. Personal deadlines were repeatedly missed and pushed back; first Wednesday 12th of Feb, then Friday 28th of Feb, and now the final iteration. We still have plans to trim down the overall wordcount and tweak but that requires community feedback and more eyes than the 20 - 30 people in the rewrite discord and direct messages beyond, most if not all of the applicable feedback from which we actioned before posting and are continuing to action.

I only returned to the ST about a month ago, and in that time as an LM have only afforded minor attention to mags with my focus being other writing projects; both to the extents that yes, I do know how mags work (which is why I think this is a very strange accusation; my last big submission, Moroi, has been up since October 2024 and I have no reason to think this would be reviewed any faster than that?) though I also have no idea when the current one is due to end or the next one is due to begin. This lore was submitted because the writers genuinely believe this is a long-term cure for what has been a very wonky situation of post-loregames incompatibility between the two overlapping niches, which we believe should synergise in a single umbrella system rather than the current overly siloed state of things. Whilst it's fair to disagree with that philosophy, calling this rushed to meet the loremag deadline is simply untrue.

[Carson 1165]

I love this! I love exorcism, but I think it should either be more spells for 2 slots, or take up one slot as a default. I don't think it's that big of a deal though, just that for a 2 slot magic it doesn't have enough abilities to match other 2 slot magics.

 

bravo. I love that it's a neutral variant and opens the path for shore walkers in more ways than mysticism previously did.

[Phantuhm 193]

I like the idea of merging the magics, read through and looks like some good stuff although seems to lean more toward mysticism then necromancy, overall good idea and seems really cool.

[Sarven 2619]

Thanks for the new song

 

Post is really good too, love to see more spooky necromancer shenanigans going

[Werew0lf 24180]

7 hours ago, The King Of The Moon said:

I'm not sure who you spoke to this about but I thought before processing the rest of your feedback I'd be very clear here: I have no idea what you're talking about with this one.

This lore has been a work in progress on and off since August 2024, revising an initial concept from all the way back in June 2018. Work slowed after Pallodium's Abyss Knight submission threatened to take the wind out of reaving's sails and then steam picked up again around early February in light of more and more glaring issues with the current states of necromancy and mysticism. Personal deadlines were repeatedly missed and pushed back; first Wednesday 12th of Feb, then Friday 28th of Feb, and now the final iteration. We still have plans to trim down the overall wordcount and tweak but that requires community feedback and more eyes than the 20 - 30 people in the rewrite discord and direct messages beyond, most if not all of the applicable feedback from which we actioned before posting and are continuing to action.

I only returned to the ST about a month ago, and in that time as an LM have only afforded minor attention to mags with my focus being other writing projects; both to the extents that yes, I do know how mags work (which is why I think this is a very strange accusation; my last big submission, Moroi, has been up since October 2024 and I have no reason to think this would be reviewed any faster than that?) though I also have no idea when the current one is due to end or the next one is due to begin. This lore was submitted because the writers genuinely believe this is a long-term cure for what has been a very wonky situation of post-loregames incompatibility between the two overlapping niches, which we believe should synergise in a single umbrella system rather than the current overly siloed state of things. Whilst it's fair to disagree with that philosophy, calling this rushed to meet the loremag deadline is simply untrue.

I spoke to Zarsies, and he told me that the lore feedback offered was being hardboiled to make it easily digestible.

 

He was also the person who informed me that the lore was being posted to meet the next mags. 
 

if you aren’t communicating with your fellow lore writer then that’s probably where ur confusion comes from rlly ?

 

 

[PrinceJose270 1211]

You only get a +1 from me if this is called Necromism or Mysticmancy.

Also, in all seriousness, you prob shouldnt off added greater undead UNTIL said lore is accepted. Assuming it doesnt will end up just like how shamanism did from pans lore and end up being inconsistant and this post would be denied due to the greater lore section. (or at least, ask to remove it)

 

[Tabby64 1464]

On 3/9/2025 at 1:43 AM, The King Of The Moon said:

 

• This table is referenced throughout necromancy to detail vulnerabilities and immunities to certain abilities or spell effects. Special effects, vulnerabilities and immunities written in necromancy spells will always supersede this table when specified.

	Lifeforce	Anima	Ectoplasm
Mortals	⛤	⛤
Dragonkin	⛤	⛤
Inferi	⛤	⛤
Corporeal Undead	⛤	⛤
Phantom Undead	⛤	⛤	⛤
Alchemic Aberrations	⛤
Fae	⛤	⛤
Constructs
Transcendent Constructs		⛤
Voidal Aberrations
Deific Aberrations		⛤
Disembodied Souls		⛤

(This table is a breakdown of the text below for quick reference)

 

• • Constructs include but are not limited to living dolls, thanhic golems, atronachs, or automatons.
  • Transcendent Constructs include but are not limited to sorvians, soul-bound golems, dreadknights or machine spirits.

 

 

Kind of confused what's going on here with golems. You put them under the construct section which says no soul anima but they do have it. While soul-bound golems may have a full soul inside; regular ones still have anima powering them along with mana. 

[Zarsies 6795]

Howdy folks! Glad to have eyes on the posts, I am hopeful we collectively can forge a lasting, whole, satisfying necromancy (with obv assimilation of the ghost-necromancy) that caters to everyone. Indeed as mentioned, this is an ongoing, WIP project meant to adopt community feedback on the broader forums after it's Discord group gestation period. This coincides with hardboiling the language, plain and valid critique which is core to our approach. The necromancer fantasy is such a peak trope! It's endlessly rich as a device and has genuinely countless stories. I hope this time we can iron out all the related subjects and lay the foundations for fair and fun roleplay.

 

I'll make some choice replies:

 

@lemonke You're taking it a bit far! Do not worry. In short, implementation is still up in the air and it's totally possible wight CAs are given to reinforce existing lich-less necromancer groups. That said, acquiring wight in this rewrite is viable for any fully slotted necro and your own group in question would have pale lords who could lead the ritual. And if short, maybe pale lord is given out to some of the grandfathered pale knights? Who knows, it can all be talked about. Aside, to characterize this as 'Mordring magic' is reductive in that you're implying an anti-Mordring or a-Mordring (one completely oblivious) coven couldn't exist or is threatened beyond being able to exist. That's out of bounds of my own logic. As for calling this a 'siliti situation' I'm also at a loss, this feels more like conjecture. Lots of characters have PK clauses yet aren't PKed en masse, it's not like this lore forms some Mordring hegemony. The same fallacy existed in that people misconstrued Mthyul Tlan as 'god of mysticism'.

 

@Werew0lf Woops! I've been away since Friday and notifications have been piling (40 by Saturday night 💀) so I never got around to talking with the gang. That said you and @The King Of The Moonare both correct, this has been a long time coming but we're posting it in it's current state with the expectation that we have at LEAST months (plural, so at least 2) before this gets reviewed. And in that time we plan to make major edits between community and staff feedback. So thank you for contributing! ^_^ 

 

Once replies stack up and there's more feedback I'll circle back. Case in point once the origin lore segment is finished.

[Turbo_Dog 3567]

I personally dislike/disagree with how the phylactery mechanics work. They can be broken and while it’s nice to not die where you stand I feel it would be nice to be able to call the soul back in order to create another or just remove the mechanic all together in favor if it being like how mystical gunk rocks work where they need to upkeep their current undead status such as greater, etc. by feeding or refueling by the rock where ectoplasm or other such things are kept in. But this is my general opinion on the matter.

[lemonke 6014]

9 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Lots of characters have PK clauses yet aren't PKed en masse, it's not like this lore forms some Mordring hegemony. The same fallacy existed in that people misconstrued Mthyul Tlan as 'god of mysticism'.

A lot of CAs don't have this kind of PK for "lesser CAs" where you can break their shit and they're unable to revive, or rather, unable to build their stuff back. Heck, I'm pretty sure even Azdrazi can rebuild their shit or can be brought back by other Azdrazi.

 

You don't see a mass of PK because right now, there are not many PK systems like what you are trying to achieve, but also when you were absent, a lot of Mehir shit got broken when no one was around. I'm just saying that it's something to consider when you are making 3-4 different CAs into one with this huge PK CLAUSE that cannot be repaired in any shape or form, unlike the MANY other CAs on this server. It's just too harsh. AND REMEMBER, You are going to get a lot of these PALEKNIGHTS. So, a mass of PK will eventually happen.

 

9 hours ago, Zarsies said:

u're taking it a bit far! Do not worry. In short, implementation is still up in the air and it's totally possible wight CAs are given to reinforce existing lich-less necromancer groups. That said, acquiring wight in this rewrite is viable for any fully slotted necro and your own group in question would have pale lords who could lead the ritual. And if short, maybe pale lord is given out to some of the grandfathered pale knights? Who knows, it can all be talked about.

For your other stuff, while it's more personal. Let's say I BECOME a lich now, and then I become a wight. I'll still have to deal with 5+ people who can teach, whilst only I'd be able to teach for 3 months and it will hinder my progress as a whole on an OOC level. Also, if allegedly I may never get  Lichdom, in that case, I too would not be able to expand my group in any way even if I become a wight afterward. There is going just to be a huge power imbalance that is not being considered as you may think regardless of grandfathering or other factors. It's not to point fingers at anybody, of course. But I think I'd have preferred other people to have been contacted and asked their opinion of this beforehand, as I found out about the rewrite more so by myself and by a peep of mine. I don't think it was made out of malice but yeah, it's something not to ignore. There are more issues to observe on the lore piece, like how it will force necromancers to play more like mystics (like many others said) as it doesn't feel like a necromancy with their corpsecrafting but more like Mysticism deluxe. Nevertheless, I'm always up to talk about it with you.

 

You have my Discord. So, I may explain more things in detail.

 

Also, do remember that ST will have to do a lot of paperwork to handle the CAs and MAs! I'd check again for a better way to implement the CAs!!

 

9 hours ago, Zarsies said:

That's out of bounds of my own logic. As for calling this a 'siliti situation' I'm also at a loss, this feels more like conjecture.

 

I don't know if you remember, but through the Siliti cannibalizing PK (which was added through an amendment from what I remember), other than the other numerous issues, there was a precise group that went around MASS PKing others. They had literally ganked a Siliti who was made after a week or two and PKed them just because. It's going to happen the same here. Mystical said it better than me in the other post, by the way.

 

You are giving CAs that previously didn't have a huge pk clause –such a harsh mechanic, which can be easily abused when you are offline. Furthermore, the mechanic is not user-friendly because it requires you to be constantly active, and if you take a little vacation. Someone might go out and break your shit and forever ruin your character's group/take your character away from you. This is not just for my group but for everybody, because no one should go through this.

 

At least, please. Make a ritual or something  to bring back your minions who died or be able to rebuild their phsycaltery!!

 

I got another idea for the Wight's one but I don't know if you want to hear it in detail. I did mention it in another comment tho.

 

Generally, I prefer interactive Pk clauses that are also user friendly and don't force you to play.

9 hours ago, Zarsies said:

Once replies stack up and there's more feedback I'll circle back. Case in point once the origin lore segment is finished.

That's good. Of course, I always want to say my mind and be straightforward with it. While I respect your work, I don't want to "glaze you." I'd rather say what I think, even if it's wrong, and hopefully help you out with it.

[Benleft 2579]

9 minutes ago, lemonke said:

A lot of CAs don't have this kind of PK for "lesser CAs" where you can break their shit and they're unable to revive. Heck, I'm pretty sure even Azdrazi can rebuild their shit or can be brought back by other Azdrazi.

 

yeah you're not allowed to kill azdrazi -tythus ltd. 

[lemonke 6014]

4 minutes ago, Benleft said:

yeah you're not allowed to kill azdrazi -tythus ltd. 

truth nuke?