10.0 Food Core 1.0.0

[indiana105 5126]

holy shit just buy a stack of bread for 5 mina

 

cool plugin, add back auction house and there will be peace and prosperity for the humble farmer

[LoTC's Next Top Model 1626]

1 hour ago, Cheezboi9 said:

The thing is that there's a lot of people who don't like it who are verbal about it, and people who really look forward to it who aren't as verbal about it.

"literally everyone who hasn't said they're against it are actually super stoked and would die for it"

lmao. millions must farm.

[Rig 17580]

Not my first choice for adding it to the server, but the ship has sailed because the interests that be (Admins?) have proclaimed it with a heavenly choir.

 

Is it the end of the world? No. Do you have to like it? No.

And before some foo asks me why I have an opinion if I wander around in godmode all day, I honestly don't. However, even if somebody did, who cares? What's going to happen is one or two people are gonna farm a ton of food, it's gonna be eaten, and the world keeps on turning. 

 

The argument I heard for it was people were not pleased about food stockpiles last map because having tons of steak in storage might have somehow been the issue with PvP. I disagree with that and personally didn't want this change made either. I will say that Cheeseboy basically did what he was asked to do as a new member on his team. If you're upset with the decision, you're better off writing a post addressed to Administration. 

 

The most Cheeseboy is guilty of is giving back to the server in the way he knows and prefers to do through programming. Like he said, if he refused map would have been delayed until somebody else did it.

 

P.S.

 

This debate on food expiration and how many people like/dislike it is also easily rectified with a server wide poll for satisfaction/dissatisfaction. Ideally, a major low stakes decision like this should have passed the vibe check with the community anyways since its harmless and really should fall down to the players' preference. It's not a sensitive issue (like moderation or security ones) which requires more nuance than a popularity poll. Letting players choose is harmless.

[JustMeMorgan 2065]

4 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

I think this is a really neat system and I for one am for any system that means I need less inventory space to store Mechanical/PvP slop, HOWEVER;

 

This feels like the itdontmatta war rules lore in that a non-st team is attempting to invent lore/story to justify something that will not be acknowledge or ever used in actual lore or RP. This totally removes player agency in the process of making flavortext before the mechanics.

 

Why would any of the magical or alchemical communities, whom have a plethora of ways as a whole of preventing or solving this issue, suddenly be unable to handle food going bad? Why are they equally unable to do absolutely anything to fix it (and thereby mooting the point of this plugin)? If I acknowledge this in RP and attempt to fix it, is it real? Will it matter?

 

it just feels like a heavy handed way of introducing a cool new thing. Food spoils: it can really just be left at that imo without any need to worry about what plot device caused it this time (curse you gashurokudo)

 

I think you're aiming this at Cheeze when in reality you should aim it at the ST: they have a feud where the ST get angry at the Tech team for making plugins that just bring some life and fun to the server, so Cheeze is probably trying to bridge the gap slightly so ST don't go "OH WHY DID FOOD NOT SPOIL BEFORE ONCE AGAIN THE TECH TEAM MAKE A PLUGIN THAT GOES AGAINST THE SERVER WITHOUT ANY LORE ATTACHED TO IT"

 

I also really like the idea of a food plugin, it brings relevance and use back to farmer roles, means that food can't just be stockpiled but becomes a commodity where supply and demand is constant, and brings smaller players who have nothing but a couple cows and a dream a chance to start up shop: I don't really understand why people are so apprehensive about a food plugin, it's more immersive than carrying a whole stack of pig meat in your pockets- now you can actually go to a city and get some food from the tavern and whatnot

 

[Ilikefooddude 430]

hell yeah. 

[lemonke 6014]

14 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

 

I think you're aiming this at Cheeze when in reality you should aim it at the ST: they have a feud where the ST get angry at the Tech team for making plugins that just bring some life and fun to the server, so Cheeze is probably trying to bridge the gap slightly so ST don't go "OH WHY DID FOOD NOT SPOIL BEFORE ONCE AGAIN THE TECH TEAM MAKE A PLUGIN THAT GOES AGAINST THE SERVER WITHOUT ANY LORE ATTACHED TO IT"

 

I also really like the idea of a food plugin, it brings relevance and use back to farmer roles, means that food can't just be stockpiled but becomes a commodity where supply and demand is constant, and brings smaller players who have nothing but a couple cows and a dream a chance to start up shop: I don't really understand why people are so apprehensive about a food plugin, it's more immersive than carrying a whole stack of pig meat in your pockets- now you can actually go to a city and get some food from the tavern and whatnot

 

Good for you. I don't find it player-friendly that food on Minecraft rots. No one cares about food stacking... It's literally mineman, or the immersiveness of carrying a lot of food.

 

It is also not immersive for a druid, anyone with anti-decay, or the undead to need to eat food or throw it away when you can't eat it anymore.

 

Also, ST has no fault here. Alongside Crunchiest, they have been carrying this map release. I don't know what the "plugins that just bring some life into the server" mean.

 

Literally getting liquid, looking at the stars is not bringing life into the server; it's bloating it. Don't blame ST for something they did not do.

[JustMeMorgan 2065]

1 minute ago, lemonke said:

Good for u. I don't find it player friendly that food on minecraft roots. No one cares about food stacking... it's literally mineman, or the immersiveness of carrying a lot of food

 

It is also not immersive for a druid, anyone with anti decay, or undead to need eating fod.

 

Valid point, but also how is it not immersive for a druid? and what counts as anti-decay afaik there are no abilities that outright stop the decay of food and regardless: Tech team already spoke about the idea of making food preservable, knocking off 0.5/1 bar of sat/hun but in return making it last much much longer.

 

What I was also trying to say by immersive is it becomes now a need to search for people with food, and there's now a new role in the server open, rather than anyone just farming up 60 stacks of steak, now you have a more dynamic and constant supply and demand where people may hold off killing off large amounts of stock to not waste food (which also could mean money!) and so forth. Immersive in the sense that most people have to seek out food.

 

also undead can just be ignored, it's a tiny amount of the playerbase and all they need is like half a stack of monkbread- or people they play with will just hand them food when they need it lol.

 

 

[lemonke 6014]

8 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

 

Valid point, but also how is it not immersive for a druid? and what counts as anti-decay afaik there are no abilities that outright stop the decay of food and regardless: Tech team already spoke about the idea of making food preservable, knocking off 0.5/1 bar of sat/hun but in return making it last much much longer.

 

What I was also trying to say by immersive is it becomes now a need to search for people with food, and there's now a new role in the server open, rather than anyone just farming up 60 stacks of steak, now you have a more dynamic and constant supply and demand where people may hold off killing off large amounts of stock to not waste food (which also could mean money!) and so forth. Immersive in the sense that most people have to seek out food.

 

also undead can just be ignored, it's a tiny amount of the playerbase and all they need is like half a stack of monkbread- or people they play with will just hand them food when they need it lol.

 

 

 

Certain abilities facilitate growth, and in the context of blight healing, there are methods to address mundane corruption. My point is that it does not matter when everyone has a way to fix it, and can't because of mechanical issues. What immersion is that?

 

Man, if you have free time to roleplay getting hungry and needing people for food, GO AHEAD. I will not stop you, but I, and surely many other people, don't want to do that type of roleplay, mechanically forced on you.

 

People carrying stacks of whatever they want is not harmful. ST has no fault for anything, not sure why you are blaming them for Tech poor management. If individuals wish to carry 60 stacks, they are welcome to do so; if they prefer not to, that is also perfectly acceptable. However, why do I need to be forced to do it? Or the majority. Because 4 people (not as literally) think we must enforce food decay?

 

It's about time, brother. People who don't think LOTC is their life have no time to get online and worry about those things. Make it a choice, not an enforced law. Imagine coming from work after you had been in a situation where you couldn't get online for a while; maybe you are in your fair distant lair, or something similar, and now all of your foot is done. You need to walk 10 minutes to go into a city, NEVER interacting with someone; let's be real LOL. You will just buy it from a shop. Farmer RP is not real. 

 

This all could've been fixed to make Farmer relevant if there was a cool profession system. That's OPTIONAL.

 

 

EEER...?

 

 

[JustMeMorgan 2065]

26 minutes ago, lemonke said:

 

Certain abilities facilitate growth, and in the context of blight healing, there are methods to address mundane corruption. My point is that it does not matter when everyone has a way to fix it, and can't because of mechanical issues. What immersion is that?

 

Man, if you have free time to roleplay getting hungry and needing people for food, GO AHEAD. I will not stop you, but I, and surely many other people, don't want to do that type of roleplay, mechanically forced on you.

 

People carrying stacks of whatever they want is not harmful. ST has no fault for anything, not sure why you are blaming them for Tech poor management. If individuals wish to carry 60 stacks, they are welcome to do so; if they prefer not to, that is also perfectly acceptable. However, why do I need to be forced to do it? Or the majority. Because 4 people (not as literally) think we must enforce food decay?

 

It's about time, brother. People who don't think LOTC is their life have no time to get online and worry about those things. Make it a choice, not an enforced law. Imagine coming from work after you had been in a situation where you couldn't get online for a while; maybe you are in your fair distant lair, or something similar, and now all of your foot is done. You need to walk 10 minutes to go into a city, NEVER interacting with someone; let's be real LOL. You will just buy it from a shop. Farmer RP is not real. 

 

This all could've been fixed to make Farmer relevant if there was a cool profession system. That's OPTIONAL.

 

 

EEER...?

 

 

 

I'll break this bad boy down,

 

firstly, sure certain abilities facilitate growth but there's nothing saying they can sustain food for extended periods of time- unless you would like to show me where.

 

secondly, by that logic shouldn't we just scrap hunger altogether if we dislike things being mechanically forced on people?

 

thirdly, the reference to ST was on the topic of the lore part of it: Tech team are typically scrutinized for making plugins with not much lore weight, however and I can see Cheeze had listened to these complaints so was simply trying to make some sort of lore explanation. Also the debate on the food topic was much wider than a minority vote.

 

fourth, yeah I get time, but at the same time some people sit in a dungeon for 6 hours rping so maybe billy bobson would want to become a food peddler (which has been something we've seen, now with greater scope as you don't have to concern yourself with edit tags, you can just sell the actual thing). Farmer RP isn't real for now but maybe this is a start to creating such an avenue if you've considered that?

 

fifth, feel free to posit the idea over

 

sixth, that's me memeing, I was mostly jumping in on what Random had said (Which is now gone so I'm sobbing) lmao, making a jokey dig at Koyo-Kuni and overall stating I would actually be trying to invest in the farming side of things with my own community.

 

hope that clears it all up for ya

[LoTC's Next Top Model 1626]

16 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

secondly, by that logic shouldn't we just scrap hunger altogether if we dislike things being mechanically forced on people?

the vast majority of players with pex spend all day in godmode and tp between locations instead of walking. they might not say it openly, but they do.

there is a reason for this. we're here to roleplay. i have never felt exhilerated and immersed because i need to eat sixteen loaves of bread in order to jog what's in character like half a kilometer. yes, i, and most the server, would greatly prefer the hunger system to be removed instead of food spoiling added. because it wasn't interesting before, and being forced to engage with it even more won't suddenly make it interesting.

it's not going to create a massive farming economy like everyone is expecting unless farming has also been massively nerfed, because farms can still greatly oversustain any given playerbase. it just now also requires micromanagement.

if you're the type of person who absolutely 100% requires the entire server be changed around farming before you'd ever even consider doing farming rp, i think you might just not actually like farming rp. and steak is still going to massively overflow every nation's stock, because a single set of armour requires like 40 cows to be killed, and those cows would be being farmed even if they didn't drop beef in the first place. because it's not food that's the reason.

i'm like 99% sure that the reason the hunger plugin was added at all was because an admin saw a cow farm and how it had like a dozen double chests filled with beef, and assumed that the nations were farming the cows for the beef because of survivorship bias. since the cows were actually farmed for the leather, and none of the leather was stored because it was all used instantly. the beef was a junk product and it was stockpiled because of the knock-on effects of a different highly controversial plugin that noone likes engaging with and also doesn't create immersion. see; all the popular "we need to talk about pvp" posts where nation leaders and pvp goons have all unanimously agreed (something which never happens) that the leather economy has made wars cringe and created an economy of haves vs. have nots where nations get all the power (funny enough, food spoilage also contributes to this lmao).

but i'm getting off topic. the reason food spoilage /kinda/ worked with nexus, was because both farming and cooking had oppurtunity cost. it was part of a larger system where everything interacted with one another. it does NOT work in isolation. literally every character is a farmer. literally every character is a chef. neither of those things is going to change going forward just because of food spoilage lmao.

it doesn't work because it a; doesn't go far enough, and b; doesn't fit with minecraft mechanics, which we are all bound to. would vanilla minecraft be better with food spoiling? the answer is no. what, functionally, is mechanically different on lotc as compared to vanilla minecraft? the answer is, nothing. nothing really significant, at least. a different fishing table doesn't wholly remake the game. looking at a star and getting glow juice doesn't change how you play. we are still playing minecraft. just, now, a slightly worse version, because the spoilage system being bolted on isn't dynamic enough to be interesting, doesn't provide enough incentives to actually counteract the downsides, and largely was made on a whim without playerbase involvement.

it's beyond opinion, it's a failure of game design. in a month on the new map there won't be a bustling industry of chefs and farmers, people are just gonna farm two stacks of bread when they log in every day since the average lotc character, if minecraft food eating is canon, requires like 15000 ******* calories a day just to survive.

[Mestvin 947]

Sticks and stones may break my bones... Truth is: There will always be yap, crying and such, as it's undeniable part of this server. In spite of that you did very good job with the plugin @Cheezboi9. As for the expiration itself we will see if it workout or not since it's mainly up to the "server" if they acustom to the new reality.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

When we had food expiration with Nexus it did not encourage people to farm, it encouraged people to log off. I wasn't going to waste my time farming or accruing Minas to buy stuff from an autoshop. I voted on exactly one of the sites to get my 16 monk bread, did some roleplay until the monk bread ran out, then logged off.

 

Feels especially ridiculous to force me to interact with this mechanic when the rest of LotC is so pared down and divorced from vanilla Minecraft. Building? Placing or breaking blocks? Not allowed.  Clicking wheat/nodes on multi hour long timers and managing inventory? Mandatory. 

[JustMeMorgan 2065]

6 minutes ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

the vast majority of players with pex spend all day in godmode and tp between locations instead of walking. they might not say it openly, but they do.

there is a reason for this. we're here to roleplay. i have never felt exhilerated and immersed because i need to eat sixteen loaves of bread in order to jog what's in character like half a kilometer. yes, i, and most the server, would greatly prefer the hunger system to be removed instead of food spoiling added. because it wasn't interesting before, and being forced to engage with it even more won't suddenly make it interesting.

it's not going to create a massive farming economy like everyone is expecting unless farming has also been massively nerfed, because farms can still greatly oversustain any given playerbase. it just now also requires micromanagement.

if you're the type of person who absolutely 100% requires the entire server be changed around farming before you'd ever even consider doing farming rp, i think you might just not actually like farming rp. and steak is still going to massively overflow every nation's stock, because a single set of armour requires like 40 cows to be killed, and those cows would be being farmed even if they didn't drop beef in the first place. because it's not food that's the reason.

i'm like 99% sure that the reason the hunger plugin was added at all was because an admin saw a cow farm and how it had like a dozen double chests filled with beef, and assumed that the nations were farming the cows for the beef because of survivorship bias. since the cows were actually farmed for the leather, and none of the leather was stored because it was all used instantly. the beef was a junk product and it was stockpiled because of the knock-on effects of a different highly controversial plugin that noone likes engaging with and also doesn't create immersion. see; all the popular "we need to talk about pvp" posts where nation leaders and pvp goons have all unanimously agreed (something which never happens) that the leather economy has made wars cringe.

but i'm getting off topic. the reason food spoilage /kinda/ worked with nexus, was because both farming and cooking had oppurtunity cost. it was part of a larger system where everything interacted with one another. it does NOT work in isolation. literally every character is a farmer. literally every character is a chef. neither of those things is going to change going forward just because of food spoilage lmao.

 

I can hear that there's frustration with the new system but I do believe generalising and stating that you are the majority is not something entirely accurate, as far as we know it may be true a 60-40 split, but it can also be a 50-50, 51-49, 30-70, 60-40. So I'd avoid generalising unless there's a big wad of data on it.

 

Overall I can see the frustration behind having to keep up with stock, and interestingly you did mention about how it worked well with other systems- but I find that's something that can be built from. The plugin as it stands is only barebones with much more under development: one of the additional ideas was for unique recipes, perhaps the fishing plugin could be interacted with it too to get unique types of seafood etc etc. There's wiggle room.

 

I'll ask the same question again to you, if mechanical restrictions take the fun away should we just put everyone in god mode till they get into pvp?

 

And I do agree with you that leather economy makes things cringe.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

1 minute ago, JustMeMorgan said:

 

I can hear that there's frustration with the new system but I do believe generalising and stating that you are the majority is not something entirely accurate, as far as we know it may be true a 60-40 split, but it can also be a 50-50, 51-49, 30-70, 60-40. So I'd avoid generalising unless there's a big wad of data on it.

 

community team members certainly should not get god mode. what do you even do with it?

[JustMeMorgan 2065]

2 minutes ago, monkeypoacher said:

 

community team members certainly should not get god mode. what do you even do with it?

 

honestly godmode is a bit boring, you get handed food with players that you don't eat and just hand off anyway. The only useful part of it is not missing your footing and falling to certain death lol