10.0 Food Core 1.0.0

[Xarkly 17299]

Does the food bag not defeat the entire point of this plugin 

[LoTC's Next Top Model 1626]

20 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

I can hear that there's frustration with the new system but I do believe generalising and stating that you are the majority is not something entirely accurate, as far as we know it may be true a 60-40 split, but it can also be a 50-50, 51-49, 30-70, 60-40. So I'd avoid generalising unless there's a big wad of data on it.

nearly every member on any team of any rank i have ever met spend the majority of their time in god mode. walk around yourself. try to punch staff members you see, randomly. i garuntee almost all of them arn't going to be hit. st, ct, gm, admin, all of em.

 

20 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

but I find that's something that can be built from. The plugin as it stands is only barebones with much more under development: one of the additional ideas was for unique recipes, perhaps the fishing plugin could be interacted with it too to get unique types of seafood etc etc. There's wiggle room.

you don't start with the drawbacks. you start with the entire framework. food spoilage shouldn't be step one of a new skill system, it should be step final. if the plugin just added new foods, literally noone would be finding it controversial, cheezeboi would be paraded through the streets like a champion (see; all the genuinely cool new rp supporting plugins crunchiest has added, for instance.) it's just bad game design. looking at lotc as a game, which it is, it is annoying. it doesn't inspire me to make a chef character, because mechanically nothing has changed, and ic'ly my funny culimancy does literally nothing. it just sprouts dissonance between ic and ooc. there is a level of abstraction inherent to lotc and the medium which we play through (minecraft). we assume that characters arn't actually cube peple. we assume that the buildings we live in arn't wholly angular monstrosities. we assume the fact we need to eat thirty steaks a day is just non-canon. by trying to tie ic mechanics to the ooc abstraction, i'd argue it /hurts/ immersion. lotc's economy is already fucked for a billion different reasons, but the big two are that all income GENERATION is done through an ooc metric (voting), and there's no actual sink for the insane amount of wealth generated every day (150 people voting a day = thousands of minas entering the economy daily). see; the hundreds of map art posts in the last week or two of the map, as that's the only actual use of minas for anyone except nation leaders (who have to pay for tile upkeep). sure, you can trade them for skins or ic items or whatever, but what is that person then going to do? sit on it forever and then buy seventy map arts in the last week of the map.

 

also it being a barebones almost nothing plugin isn't a point in it's defense. "yeah we heard you all want a cooking plugin where you can create special dishes, so we added food spoiling and will consider potentially adding custom recipes later maybe if we feel like it" like cool dude. cool for doing what noone asked for and actively avoiding the thing that MIGHT have made it tolerable.

 

20 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

I'll ask the same question again to you, if mechanical restrictions take the fun away should we just put everyone in god mode till they get into pvp?

the way you phrase this implies you find the idea of it incredulous. yes. we should. genuinely. what does needing to eat stacks of bread a day do for immersion? what does falling thirty blocks then fixing it by furiously munching beef do for your immersion?

"noone will roleplay cooking if you don't have hunger!" brother, have you BEEN to a city on the server in the last year? every city has a bustling tavern, usually also several additional resteraunts. i'm not paying six minas for this lore'd steak to replenish my hunger, i could've bought a stack of bread for that same price at a itemshop fifteen blocks away if i wanted to. i'm buying it because it's /fun/. i make soda in character and made a fortune, and that shit literally doesn't restore hunger at all because it's just coloured water bottles. people give me money, to be able to trade the /concept/ of a soda. because it's a roleplay server. noone roleplays farmers because it's ******* boring. do you want to have a bunch of people standing around your field shouting "go wheat boy go wheat boy go!"? being a farmer character is an aesthetic, the same way being a gardener ic is and putting a roleplay sign down saying the poppy is actually a carnation and it's your character's favourite flower is. farmer characters rarely roleplay farming, go *swings his scythe*, stepping five blocks down the field, then doing it again. they roleplay *walks into the tavern "it was a real rough day in the fields today...", etc.
 

 

20 minutes ago, JustMeMorgan said:

And I do agree with you that leather economy makes things cringe.

all food spoilage does is create similar incentives to the leather economy but for ALL food. there are two possibilities of food spoilage, it will either be cringe, or it will have absolutely no affect on the server, and the response to both is "why even make it in the first place".

[Islamadon 9158]

Do not throw stones in a glass house Morgan…

 

As for ST and the plugin, it’s w/e. LT maintains the view that it is not our responsibility to write and push lore to justify the actions of other teams when consultation is most often ignored. There does not need to be an epic lore explanation as to why food goes bad, it is intuitive. All said, Cheezeboi is trying to provide a reasoning for the plugin in good faith and so we have no qualms with his explanation, though it shouldn’t be cited as an actual map lore mechanic when drafting new lore (you are fine druids, the trees are fine).

[bordwell 57]

imo it gets boring sometimes when there's no mechanical obstacles to consider. Like mc hunger by default is more of a minor inconvenience, it could be literally removed from the server and make like no difference outside of pvp. Everyone has infinite food and getting things other than bread and taters is just done for RP reasons in most cases. You can try to artificially create a problem, like "oh no the Beast of Spoilage and Despair has ruined our crops and caused famine" but it's unsatisfying when that means literally nothing since you still have a chest full of baked po ta toes from 50 in game years ago. 

 

But introducing complexity for the sake of complexity is also annoying. Most people don't want to deal with hyper realistic irl problems when they just want to be a hobbit smoking weed in a hole. 

 

I think there's a happy medium, and this plugin seems like it can get to that point. I personally love the idea behind this plugin but it's balancing can't be too annoying or oppressive. Making hunger more complex and actually mean something is good, as long as that complexity focuses on adding flavour over just difficulty. If food isnt super hard to obtain for new players and doesn't expire in like 15 minutes, it looks fine

[bordwell 57]

29 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

Does the food bag not defeat the entire point of this plugin 

The point of the plugin seems to be to prevent everyone from having huge stockpiles of food, the bag has limited slots so it's effectively just limiting the amount of food you can hoard. If there was no food bag it would be way too hard lol 

[Xarkly 17299]

7 minutes ago, bordwell said:

The point of the plugin seems to be to prevent everyone from having huge stockpiles of food, the bag has limited slots so it's effectively just limiting the amount of food you can hoard. If there was no food bag it would be way too hard lol 

 

Yeah, that's sort of the point I'm angling at.

 

If individual players can exempt themselves from the plugin, the only real net result is that this elongates grinding for wars. I think the community has been pretty vocal about reducing war grinding, so I find it pretty baffling how Admins reached the conclusion we should add another layer of grinding on top of the total disaster that has been leather grinding.

 

While well-designed for what it is by Cheez, the unfortunate reality is that this is a pretty delusional idea pushed by an Administration who don't seem to really have any insight into how our war systems operate for players as a whole. One of the reasons cited by Admins when I tried to discuss this with them was to "prevent people bunkering behind their walls" during wartime and being incentivised to defend barns etc. during raids, which seemed to demonstrate they were completely oblivious to the role of leather on the server.

 

End of the day, can't build something good from rotted foundations. 

[Ardory 2978]

The comments in this post are the most entertaining thing I have seen this week.

 

 

[Holyland 3650]

Fridge Roleplay when

[Wulfric 472]

Will using a food as an ingredient reset the expiry date for it? For an example, you got a raw potato that has one day left before its rotten, you go cook it in a oven, does the cooked potato expire in 1 day or 28 days?

[Epicethan4 948]

Based, good work Cheezeboi. Ignore the haters, FULL STEAM AHEAD

[Borin 7645]

2 hours ago, Xarkly said:

 

Yeah, that's sort of the point I'm angling at.

 

If individual players can exempt themselves from the plugin, the only real net result is that this elongates grinding for wars. I think the community has been pretty vocal about reducing war grinding, so I find it pretty baffling how Admins reached the conclusion we should add another layer of grinding on top of the total disaster that has been leather grinding.

 

While well-designed for what it is by Cheez, the unfortunate reality is that this is a pretty delusional idea pushed by an Administration who don't seem to really have any insight into how our war systems operate for players as a whole. One of the reasons cited by Admins when I tried to discuss this with them was to "prevent people bunkering behind their walls" during wartime and being incentivised to defend barns etc. during raids, which seemed to demonstrate they were completely oblivious to the role of leather on the server.

 

End of the day, can't build something good from rotted foundations. 

ty xarkly for illustrating how dense the adm*ns are

[wowj 9747]

 

[Venomous_Pup 2978]

2 hours ago, Xarkly said:

While well-designed for what it is by Cheez, the unfortunate reality is that this is a pretty delusional idea pushed by an Administration who don't seem to really have any insight into how our war systems operate for players as a whole. One of the reasons cited by Admins when I tried to discuss this with them was to "prevent people bunkering behind their walls" during wartime and being incentivised to defend barns etc. during raids, which seemed to demonstrate they were completely oblivious to the role of leather on the server.

Can we just have like a Helldivers 2 Major Order system where Nations need to build Forts, Barns, and other structures that need to be destroyed before a warclaim itself can occur, encourage the players out of the bunker instead of punishing, as I feel like this will only reasonably make the issue worse in that I can just get someone to make giant farms, and only harvest/kill what is needed right before any raids and then hide behind walls anyway.  

[NotEvilAtAll 10906]

Make it so that cookies never expire since they already have the food value of nerfed food. We can roleplay cookies as hardtack.

[Borin 7645]

29 minutes ago, Venomous_Pup said:

Can we just have like a Helldivers 2 Major Order system where Nations need to build Forts, Barns, and other structures that need to be destroyed before a warclaim itself can occur, encourage the players out of the bunker instead of punishing, as I feel like this will only reasonably make the issue worse in that I can just get someone to make giant farms, and only harvest/kill what is needed right before any raids and then hide behind walls anyway.  

One of the main complaints alongside gear etc being a pain is that warclaims and stuff dont happen quickly enough - too much time over months and months for a war to happen bc of 1 week gaps between warclaims. More things being plonked between war declared and warclaims happening one after another is bad.