Vote On The Way Combat Should Work!

[Solaba 144]

And people will simply go to great lengths to avoid eachother if this is implemented so they won't have to walk all the way from spawn to where ever they wanted to go before some roadside bandit stopped them.

I sure can! And when I'm stopped on the road by some guy I don't know and he wants to PVP? Then what? Oh right, I'm screwed within the first six seconds because I'm unable to out sprint-run someone with an iron sword.

This still happens even with RP as default. I'm a villian and have experienced this first-hand. People just try to void me and run off. If someone did that then it makes sense to automatically attack them. Give me a reason for me to not kill you anymore and you won't be.

[Bawg 494]

PvP Default System

 

The Aegis System!

RP fights are way too long and cause so much OOC fights. Clearly RP fighting is not working.

Every time when I rob someone on the road with four other people it takes twenty minutes and causes a crowd of humans to amass. People abuse the RP fighting system to not lose their items or lose for once. Everyone is so full of themselves [Even Me] that they do not want to lose a battle or create fun roleplay for someone other than themselves. The Hardcore Rleplay style this server is striving for is choking the very being of life out of the server and will bring it to it's demise. 

[Aetosion 2062]

Alright, so I am going to give my twenty-one gun salute. Are you ready?

 

1. We have players from all over the world, of different ages, who consume different media.

Some people watch Anime, some people watch the Matrix, some people

self-glorify and imagine themselves in unrealistic situations. From

this, we have different players backed by their own cliques pushing

certain players in their RP fight endeavors, I have seen too much

powergaming from players who think they are in the safe. RP fighting has

caused so much drama because we get into our "Team Jacobs who can

backflip and throw a hatchet point-blank as if this is Call of Duty" and

their 'Team Edwards who watches Bleach and think they can parry five

swords at one time. People forget to comprehend the fact that even

movies are choreographed to have characters win a fight, Darth Maul

should have beat the tar sands out of tired ol Obi Wan Kenobi and now we

have players thinking they can pull the shindig. Likewise, staff are

not hive-mind, even the staff suffers from the problem that they have

different interpretations due to their own experiences as to what the

human body [or other Races] is capable of. Whether it is anime

distorting our view of the human body or uber-realists cringing that you

didn't allow 22 seconds to crank that crossbow-baby up; PvP throws this

out and makes players think outside of the box; ironically taking

either terrain into account [which is hardly taken into account from my

staff PoV] or use tactics.

 

2. This server was never heralded as a 'Heavy RP server', we realised that we

had to go to our Download folders and pop up that Minecraft.exe to even participate

in LotC. This is a Minecraft server, stop abusing the English language and

stating what it is not. LARPing is probably the closest to Hardcore RP

as you will get and most will be anguished to realise that you can't

pull half the stunts pulled on LotC during my tenure atleast. Stating

that 'you are a bad RPer if you use mechanics rather than actually RP"

does two poorly-thought out things:

 

a: You fail to remember that the Aegis system, you had to RP proficiently to

instigate a clash of swords so to speak, don't attempt to blackmail or degrade

those who see the sense in leaning on RP-PvP as 'trying to turn this into MineZ'.

 

b: I reckon us staff should banhammer you if you right-click to eat food

"RP eating and suck it up if hunger bar beats you down into the reality

that this is Minecraft", right-click to purchase from shops, left-click

to access levers and buttons to gain access to certain areas.

 

3. RP fighting takes too much time, whether from players who may have IRL

priorities that they thankfully line up before a game thus allotting

themselves only so much time to play Minecraft. This has actually been

an issue even amongst staff as we get called to try and cut down people

prolonging to either metagame [known as stalling] or drive the other

person into a face-desk at the fact that it is now 6:30PM when he hopped

into the fight at 5:45PM. Players can easily abuse by prolonging a

fight whilst fighting a war with words alongside their clique to shame

and degrade the player that is still fighting. Ties back into #1.

 

4. Lag actually makes you better in PvP as your hitbox is harder to get a registered hit mind you all. Likewise, spam-clicking DOES NOT work, Blawharag proved this.

 

I hope this persuades people into either throwing out their illogical

arguments or at the very least persuades people to give the ol Aegis

Rp-PvP system a chance. Thank You for hearing me out!

This is an amazing post, and I'm quoting it for great justice because I've reached my quota of positive post ratings  today.

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1050]

Maybe...they can make it so knightly characters get the PVP they want, and peasants like me can just...maybe get out of situations a lot easier? or something like that?

[youlovesocks 652]

PVP DEFAULT. IT WORKED IN AEGIS IT WILL WORK NOW

[LaCabra (Soda) 1519]

Alrighty, Gaius posted his two cents, and that inspired me to post mine!

 

I've been a Human, an Orc, a Dwarf, and an Elf in my time here on LotC. During ALL of these times, I have been involved in combat. I am not telling a lie when I say that (in fights where it's more the 2v2) there are always complaints about powergaming, unfairness, and just plain annoyance from both sides of the fights. These 'complaints' turn into ban reports, and they are the reason many of our friends here on LotC have been banned.

 

Instead of having these confusing RP fights, we can have PvP as our default and avoid this confusion - fights will be fair, people will just attack away, and in the meantime, save long periods of hassling and stressful RP. Let's be honest, for the most part, when people roleplay combat, they roleplay it to win, and that is where powergaming comes from. It's a sad fact, but it's true. There will be winners and losers with PvP, but powergaming will be out of the question.

 

Now, remember that PvP will just be the DEFAULT. If you enjoy roleplaying fights, why not fight with others who enjoy roleplaying fights? I'm sure that there will be many people who still prefer to RP fighting, you've just really got to ask them. In that way, those who wish to RP instead of PvP get their way, and those who prefer to PvP will also.

[gg12gg 69]

I'd like anyone who is against PVP to clearly explain how the issues Gaius brings up aren't valid.

[Agith 224]

So...Where to start here.

 

    Aah! I know. Let's talk about the people who claim that the plugin will fix everything and PVP will be totally RP fair. Back in Aegis we farmed for skill with the plugin, people didn't wait to get their skill up through rp training ( Rping anything did absolutely nothing for training, you just rpg style hack and slash it.). (And the claim that a proficiency point system of time thing only means that older players who may not do things as they should roleplay, still get to reap the benefits. )The fact of the matter is that there is nothing beneficial from the plugin beyond another chunk of complexity that just added more mediocrity to the server. The plugin was pure luck as well, there was less skill in PVP with it. The human mind is far more elaborate than any computer or script we can make...So why not actually use it instead of trying to stop using it in an attempt to replace it with a computer oriented system?

 

    Alright, lets talk about other more small details. PVP default results in dullness, the default PVP in aegis was tolerable since we weren't all focused on hating each other rply. There was no racist oren, no white rose to pick and choose who they want to kill. THere was an overall evil force which typically distracted international tension between races and put forth more focus on the more deadly enemy. THat said? People whined that there was no nation tension! 

 

    Now... I play a crippled mage. But lets forget the mage part adn just focus on the crippled aspect. I am told I am a pretty good PVPer, right? So my crippled character beats the living daylights out of a player who is rply perfectly healthy and strong, but not a good PVPer. People are not fond of this sort of thing. Back in Aegis, you didn't walk around in armor, you put it on at the last minute RIGHT Before the fight occurred. That's bad rp in general, as was a lot of the roleplay in Aegis purely due to the newness of the server and concept to many people. 

 

    So lets talk about food. You don't deprive the OOC community of minecraft based food, we tried it, and it failed. Food  was so scarce that every single person barely skimmed by and many died because they couldn't find food quickly enough (Which needs to be extremely common.)

 

    I have yet to meet an Aegis player who wants to revert back to default of pvp. It was a terrible system which was both restrictive and mediocre. Population dropped due to the lack of an interesting event to hold curiosity, not because of the shift from PVP to RP. I don't hate pvp, I enjoy it and go to server specifically made for it as opposed to coming here to beat the living **** out of people. We tried the plugin methods, they failed, yet again we try because there is so little people who truly were present for the entirety of both systems, and who still have yet to experience the full extent that PVP default has. 

 

    Okay, mages get default rp right? Well what about when our magic plugin is done... Well then we don't get magic default because people will ***** and whine about it. That's all this community seems to do anymore. Our RP system works, why change it? I love this server, it has managed to keep my interest for about two years now, but when we are forced to PVP default, and BOTH parties must agree to RP in place of i? that is when I am leaving this server and finding one truly deserving of the right to call themselves a pure and serious roleplay server.

[blindmind 350]

LoTC was even more popular as an RP server when PVP was default. I'm not saying it's because of PVP being default, but it was still the #1 server when PVP was default. So it is quite logical :)

 

There were a lot of little things that amounted to that achievement, and the combat mechanics were certainly one of them. No doubt, the entire landscape of RP, as LotC recognized it, changed or started changing when RP fighting became the hot topic. It's amounted to blisters like Kingston, which is universally agreed upon to be a place sorely lacking in wholesome roleplay, leading to its eventual condemnation. However, the continuation of RP fighting will no doubt continue to be the abrasion that allows for further blisters. We've popped one (Kingston), but there will likely be others. And where there aren't hot spots that anyone can point out and say, "we don't go there anymore," there is all of the sub-par and contrived combat that fills the gaps in the isolated spaces between what could be described as civilization, like so much puss deserving of several moist cloths. 

We've entertained RP fighting for about a year and a half now. What good have we accomplished with it? Is there a crowning moment that the server can recognize as across the board as something monumental, that wasn't of our own design, that didn't go too far, that maintained an unfaltering level of normalcy, reason, and logic? Perhaps. Maybe there's a good handful of folks who've had their share of personal poetry dedicated to glorious combat, a veritable monument unto themselves. More likely than not, however, that singular cluster of moments that are like beacons to you exist in lonesome among a sea of dark, nebulous frustration. When I talk to people about RP fighting (even just by uttering the phrase), there isn't any story (good or bad) that isn't prefaced by a long exasperated sigh.

I want to say we've brute-forced creativity, that we've forsaken responsibility in lieu of a system that caters to the lowest common denominator, but, while I do trust this, it isn't entirely true. I would feel more comfortable saying that we've given up on it completely. Where did our imaginations flutter off to that we can't fix for ourselves a few simple interpretations of encounters that don't come pre-packaged with imagery and implications? When did combat become as common as conversation, that we can't see options that stand in contrast to violence?

The one thing that RP fighting has done that I cannot simply forgive or forget is the tidal wive of encouragement it has lent brutish characters who rely on their meager skills with a blade rather than their wits (or common sense). A certain level of sophistication has gone extinct between the start of an encounter and the eventual brawl that has made mindless violence so approachable and, thus, common. I will admit, I can understand the appeal of controlling every little digit of your character as though s/he were a marionette, thrown into a customized locomotion to satisfy personal visual desires and themes, but maybe that's not such a good thing. Maybe we've been given too much control, and we've spoiled a good thing. RP fighting has pulled away the direction and structure of simple design, entirely, allowing for just about anything to slip through, with nowhere to go or where to stop. We've watered down our beer, we've washed away the spice, and I believe that many people can agree that a lot of water has slipped through, thus squelching any and all taste.

Are we so afraid of change that we cannot muster the courage to give this a try? Ironically, we would likely discover that combat would be less common, and that's all we tend to complain about. More than that, we wouldn't be devoting so much of our resources, so much of ourselves, to lengthy yet temporary battles that we're likely fuming about by the end and try as we might to forget (and that the world will forget), anyway.

 

Yes, RP fighting gives you details, but they are biased by your own craft. Yes, RP fighting lends you control, but it removes restraint. Yes, RP fighting has given strength to the weak and options to the fearful, but has left our minds feeble and unkind.  

We've cut out holes that only we, as individuals, may fit into, expecting it to be the same shape for anyone else who might try to step inside, and so we've shut ourselves in. We've developed a science of warfare that we've mistaken for poetry. We've barricaded ourselves inside a fastness of frustration and angst, believing it freer and worth the price. And now we have something simpler, something that does not imitate creativity, but requires it. Something that forgoes the process and free-design of RP fighting for tension, for climax, for denouement, for swift resolution, and to see the world keep going without so much as a shrug in place of the cataclysm an RP fight very well may have left in its wake.

We've given this a try for over a year and a half. Let's try something else.

 

[Cyndikate 2303]

Can you guys for once just stop thinking of yourselves and start thinking of what's best for this server? I love how you all just voted RP fight default when RP fighting was the very thing that's tearing this server apart with the OOC drama and constant bickering, ban reports and edgy powergaming, especially when YOU GUYS CONSTANTLY ASKED FOR LESS RP CONFLICT.

 

You know what I think? I think the admins should have pulled another (metaphoric) VA Purge, went through with the PVP default decision without asking the community for their opinions, and if players inevitably whine, they should shove a foot down their damn throats and say "Not up for debate." Because let's face it, this community can't make up their minds and never knowing what they want.

 

I'm going to vote for the very decision that's best for the server, and the only way to solve our problems, and that is PVP default. Because RP fighting is the very reason why the playerbase is constantly OOCly clawing at one another because they can't win a fight. Why there's constant QQ threads every day.

 

Go through with the PVP change, that way our blue haired 10 ft tall muscular  backflipping speedy gonzales can think before they engage into a fight.

[Samson Option 9652]

Doth thy heareth the truth?

 

 

Alrighty, Gaius posted his two cents, and that inspired me to post mine!

 

I've been a Human, an Orc, a Dwarf, and an Elf in my time here on LotC. During ALL of these times, I have been involved in combat. I am not telling a lie when I say that (in fights where it's more the 2v2) there are always complaints about powergaming, unfairness, and just plain annoyance from both sides of the fights. These 'complaints' turn into ban reports, and they are the reason many of our friends here on LotC have been banned.

 

Instead of having these confusing RP fights, we can have PvP as our default and avoid this confusion - fights will be fair, people will just attack away, and in the meantime, save long periods of hassling and stressful RP. Let's be honest, for the most part, when people roleplay combat, they roleplay it to win, and that is where powergaming comes from. It's a sad fact, but it's true. There will be winners and losers with PvP, but powergaming will be out of the question.

 

Now, remember that PvP will just be the DEFAULT. If you enjoy roleplaying fights, why not fight with others who enjoy roleplaying fights? I'm sure that there will be many people who still prefer to RP fighting, you've just really got to ask them. In that way, those who wish to RP instead of PvP get their way, and those who prefer to PvP will also.

 

 

There were a lot of little things that amounted to that achievement, and the combat mechanics were certainly one of them. No doubt, the entire landscape of RP, as LotC recognized it, changed or started changing when RP fighting became the hot topic. It's amounted to blisters like Kingston, which is universally agreed upon to be a place sorely lacking in wholesome roleplay, leading to its eventual condemnation. However, the continuation of RP fighting will no doubt continue to be the abrasion that allows for further blisters. We've popped one (Kingston), but there will likely be others. And where there aren't hot spots that anyone can point out and say, "we don't go there anymore," there is all of the sub-par and contrived combat that fills the gaps in the isolated spaces between what could be described as civilization, like so much puss deserving of several moist cloths. 

We've entertained RP fighting for about a year and a half now. What good have we accomplished with it? Is there a crowning moment that the server can recognize as across the board as something monumental, that wasn't of our own design, that didn't go too far, that maintained an unfaltering level of normalcy, reason, and logic? Perhaps. Maybe there's a good handful of folks who've had their share of personal poetry dedicated to glorious combat, a veritable monument unto themselves. More likely than not, however, that singular cluster of moments that are like beacons to you exist in lonesome among a sea of dark, nebulous frustration. When I talk to people about RP fighting (even just by uttering the phrase), there isn't any story (good or bad) that isn't prefaced by a long exasperated sigh.

I want to say we've brute-forced creativity, that we've forsaken responsibility in lieu of a system that caters to the lowest common denominator, but, while I do trust this, it isn't entirely true. I would feel more comfortable saying that we've given up on it completely. Where did our imaginations flutter off to that we can't fix for ourselves a few simple interpretations of encounters that don't come pre-packaged with imagery and implications? When did combat become as common as conversation, that we can't see options that stand in contrast to violence?

The one thing that RP fighting has done that I cannot simply forgive or forget is the tidal wive of encouragement it has lent brutish characters who rely on their meager skills with a blade rather than their wits (or common sense). A certain level of sophistication has gone extinct between the start of an encounter and the eventual brawl that has made mindless violence so approachable and, thus, common. I will admit, I can understand the appeal of controlling every little digit of your character as though s/he were a marionette, thrown into a customized locomotion to satisfy personal visual desires and themes, but maybe that's not such a good thing. Maybe we've been given too much control, and we've spoiled a good thing. RP fighting has pulled away the direction and structure of simple design, entirely, allowing for just about anything to slip through, with nowhere to go or where to stop. We've watered down our beer, we've washed away the spice, and I believe that many people can agree that a lot of water has slipped through, thus squelching any and all taste.

Are we so afraid of change that we cannot muster the courage to give this a try? Ironically, we would likely discover that combat would be less common, and that's all we tend to complain about. More than that, we wouldn't be devoting so much of our resources, so much of ourselves, to lengthy yet temporary battles that we're likely fuming about by the end and try as we might to forget (and that the world will forget), anyway.

 

Yes, RP fighting gives you details, but they are biased by your own craft. Yes, RP fighting lends you control, but it removes restraint. Yes, RP fighting has given strength to the weak and options to the fearful, but has left our minds feeble and unkind.  

We've cut out holes that only we, as individuals, may fit into, expecting it to be the same shape for anyone else who might try to step inside, and so we've shut ourselves in. We've developed a science of warfare that we've mistaken for poetry. We've barricaded ourselves inside a fastness of frustration and angst, believing it freer and worth the price. And now we have something simpler, something that does not imitate creativity, but requires it. Something that forgoes the process and free-design of RP fighting for tension, for climax, for denouement, for swift resolution, and to see the world keep going without so much as a shrug in place of the cataclysm an RP fight very well may have left in its wake.

We've given this a try for over a year and a half. Let's try something else.

 

 

 

Doth thy heareth the twenty-one gun salute.

[Pato 82]

There were a lot of little things that amounted to that achievement, and the combat mechanics were certainly one of them. No doubt, the entire landscape of RP, as LotC recognized it, changed or started changing when RP fighting became the hot topic. It's amounted to blisters like Kingston, which is universally agreed upon to be a place sorely lacking in wholesome roleplay, leading to its eventual condemnation. However, the continuation of RP fighting will no doubt continue to be the abrasion that allows for further blisters. We've popped one (Kingston), but there will likely be others. And where there aren't hot spots that anyone can point out and say, "we don't go there anymore," there is all of the sub-par and contrived combat that fills the gaps in the isolated spaces between what could be described as civilization, like so much puss deserving of several moist cloths. 

We've entertained RP fighting for about a year and a half now. What good have we accomplished with it? Is there a crowning moment that the server can recognize as across the board as something monumental, that wasn't of our own design, that didn't go too far, that maintained an unfaltering level of normalcy, reason, and logic? Perhaps. Maybe there's a good handful of folks who've had their share of personal poetry dedicated to glorious combat, a veritable monument unto themselves. More likely than not, however, that singular cluster of moments that are like beacons to you exist in lonesome among a sea of dark, nebulous frustration. When I talk to people about RP fighting (even just by uttering the phrase), there isn't any story (good or bad) that isn't prefaced by a long exasperated sigh.

I want to say we've brute-forced creativity, that we've forsaken responsibility in lieu of a system that caters to the lowest common denominator, but, while I do trust this, it isn't entirely true. I would feel more comfortable saying that we've given up on it completely. Where did our imaginations flutter off to that we can't fix for ourselves a few simple interpretations of encounters that don't come pre-packaged with imagery and implications? When did combat become as common as conversation, that we can't see options that stand in contrast to violence?

The one thing that RP fighting has done that I cannot simply forgive or forget is the tidal wive of encouragement it has lent brutish characters who rely on their meager skills with a blade rather than their wits (or common sense). A certain level of sophistication has gone extinct between the start of an encounter and the eventual brawl that has made mindless violence so approachable and, thus, common. I will admit, I can understand the appeal of controlling every little digit of your character as though s/he were a marionette, thrown into a customized locomotion to satisfy personal visual desires and themes, but maybe that's not such a good thing. Maybe we've been given too much control, and we've spoiled a good thing. RP fighting has pulled away the direction and structure of simple design, entirely, allowing for just about anything to slip through, with nowhere to go or where to stop. We've watered down our beer, we've washed away the spice, and I believe that many people can agree that a lot of water has slipped through, thus squelching any and all taste.

Are we so afraid of change that we cannot muster the courage to give this a try? Ironically, we would likely discover that combat would be less common, and that's all we tend to complain about. More than that, we wouldn't be devoting so much of our resources, so much of ourselves, to lengthy yet temporary battles that we're likely fuming about by the end and try as we might to forget (and that the world will forget), anyway.

 

Yes, RP fighting gives you details, but they are biased by your own craft. Yes, RP fighting lends you control, but it removes restraint. Yes, RP fighting has given strength to the weak and options to the fearful, but has left our minds feeble and unkind.  

We've cut out holes that only we, as individuals, may fit into, expecting it to be the same shape for anyone else who might try to step inside, and so we've shut ourselves in. We've developed a science of warfare that we've mistaken for poetry. We've barricaded ourselves inside a fastness of frustration and angst, believing it freer and worth the price. And now we have something simpler, something that does not imitate creativity, but requires it. Something that forgoes the process and free-design of RP fighting for tension, for climax, for denouement, for swift resolution, and to see the world keep going without so much as a shrug in place of the cataclysm an RP fight very well may have left in its wake.

We've given this a try for over a year and a half. Let's try something else.

 

 

Blindmind, you have once again done the community justice.

[Zebanamana 410]

    I have yet to meet an Aegis player who wants to revert back to default of pvp.

 

 

 

Hey. I do. It was far superior.

[Cyndikate 2303]

I want someone right now, to post screenshots of their character's RP training, because unless someone has done that, the points of RP training are null and void, and just used as a BS excuse to win every fight.

 

80% of the players never actually trained their characters RPly. And most of those who did don't have the evidence to prove it.

[Samson Option 9652]

So, to hell with ic fighting skill? To hell with me or others wanting to purposefully lose a rp fight to construct development? I said it once and I'll say it again, I applied for Lord of The Craft not Lord of The Tekken, where all it takes is to prolong mashing one button. We can no longer bring our imaginaiton into fighting? Just mash one button? PvP will not make it entertaining, I would say PvP is there to satisy a majority's of the player's thirst for winning. I would rather not make an Orc in armour armed with an iron sword who trains for at least ocne a week, live in another area where there's poor internet connection speeds and have to brawl on a flat surface with a Human in armour armed with an iron sword who hardly trains as much as my work in a highly populated area which may not help lag issues. That human would easily best me.

 

I return to the Orcish Lands, tell all the other orcs I got bested by a Human who hardly trains as much as me. What'll be my excuse? "Lag"?

 

Yeah, sure, LoTC was "popular" and more "filled" because PvP was default. Then again, I'm not surprised that's the reason as to why PvP was made defaualt. all the top servers in MC have major aspects of PvP. I'm also glad knowing that those who left LoTC, left because LoTC was no longer PvP default, we need some creative, somewhat masochistic individuals here.

 

And amongst all the chide and chives, you realise that:

 

a: Rp-PvP can have rules attached such as settlements deciding RP or PvP default.

 

b: That you can easily request RP fighting.

 

You have created within your own thinking a morbid landscape of exaggerations and insults onto others. I plead that this be washed away and all others akin to you do the same.