Vote On The Way Combat Should Work!

[LaCabra (Soda) 1519]

Or we can simply talk to the person and actually treat each other like adults? Don't want super long RP fights? Say so in the beginning; or better yet you know what I do? "Everyone involved in the start of the fight are the only people allowed to be involved, no allies for me, and none for you agreed?" Bam now no meta-gamed allies come to help out of the blue. How is it fair for those of us who enjoy RPing our character's RP fighting style now will lose to those who have better access to resources or are simply better in PvP; Klomps were always the PvP fighting, and if you wanted to PvP fight you joined a miltary and fought in wars. RP fights were the fun medium; and I don't know about you but if two guards in full iron armor are chasing me across the landscape they shouldn't be able to catch up to me....MC mecahnics kind of don't stop this.

 

If you watch the livestream that is linked on the OP of this thread, you will soon discover the solution to your problem. :-)

[gg12gg 69]

I don't know about you but if two guards in full iron armor are chasing me across the landscape they shouldn't be able to catch up to me....MC mecahnics kind of don't stop this.

Once again, that's something that will be fixed in the new plugin. Players in iron armor will be much slower.

[Pato 82]

[Dyn 149]

Since so many seem to really want for somebody to do this, I'll suppose I'll attempt to refute these points. Let me just... -Puts on safety helmet-.

Alright, so I am going to give my twenty-one gun salute. Are you ready?
 
1. We have players from all over the world, of different ages, who consume different media.
Some people watch Anime, some people watch the Matrix, some people
self-glorify and imagine themselves in unrealistic situations. From
this, we have different players backed by their own cliques pushing
certain players in their RP fight endeavors, I have seen too much
powergaming from players who think they are in the safe. RP fighting has
caused so much drama because we get into our "Team Jacobs who can
backflip and throw a hatchet point-blank as if this is Call of Duty" and
their 'Team Edwards who watches Bleach and think they can parry five
swords at one time. People forget to comprehend the fact that even
movies are choreographed to have characters win a fight, Darth Maul
should have beat the tar sands out of tired ol Obi Wan Kenobi and now we
have players thinking they can pull the shindig. Likewise, staff are
not hive-mind, even the staff suffers from the problem that they have
different interpretations due to their own experiences as to what the
human body [or other Races] is capable of. Whether it is anime
distorting our view of the human body or uber-realists cringing that you
didn't allow 22 seconds to crank that crossbow-baby up; PvP throws this
out and makes players think outside of the box; ironically taking
either terrain into account [which is hardly taken into account from my
staff PoV] or use tactics.

Alright. So instead of addressing this problem, we're instead pushing it aside like a child does with the vegetables on his plate. We're not solving this, we're making it so we won't see it. Tell me something. If you've seen this so often, have you made an attempt to help them improve their RP? Have you once sent them a PM and said "Hey, I'd like to talk to you about..." and genuinely tried to improve someone's RP? I'm going to just go ahead and say no. Why? Because it's not your job and you shouldn't have to do it. So instead, here we are. Replacing the entire system because we don't want to make an attempt to help those struggling with the current and instead creating a new system that regardless of what happens, people may not be able to improve in. 

2. This server was never heralded as a 'Heavy RP server', we realised that we
had to go to our Download folders and pop up that Minecraft.exe to even participate
in LotC. This is a Minecraft server, stop abusing the English language and
stating what it is not. LARPing is probably the closest to Hardcore RP
as you will get and most will be anguished to realise that you can't
pull half the stunts pulled on LotC during my tenure atleast. Stating
that 'you are a bad RPer if you use mechanics rather than actually RP"
does two poorly-thought out things:

You're right. In the beginning, it wasn't a hardcore RP server. It was a server that happened to have RP. However, much like LotC has changed in our hands, so has our genre. We no longer PVP because we've thought for so long now that RP is better and many of us still agree. Does this mean we've banned PVP? No. It's become a regular part of our server in large scaled battles and wars and even the orcish klomping.
 
a: You fail to remember that the Aegis system, you had to RP proficiently to
instigate a clash of swords so to speak, don't attempt to blackmail or degrade
those who see the sense in leaning on RP-PvP as 'trying to turn this into MineZ'.
 
If you remember in the Aegis system, everything was much more relaxed. You certainly didn't have to RP proficiently. I distinctly remember one RP where an Undead Inquisitor and Guraim lead me to an abandoned building and in one line, pulled a lever which dropped me into a pit of lava. There was no emote for it, it was just done on a whim.

b: I reckon us staff should banhammer you if you right-click to eat food
"RP eating and suck it up if hunger bar beats you down into the reality
that this is Minecraft", right-click to purchase from shops, left-click
to access levers and buttons to gain access to certain areas.
 
Sure. Let's also make it so we have to emote breathing. There needs to be balance. We have a good balance currently, even if some cannot see it. We use minecraft, an easily changable and rather unique medium, because we all enjoy it and payed a (enter amount of currency here) for it, so we figured "Why not!".

3. RP fighting takes too much time, whether from players who may have IRL
priorities that they thankfully line up before a game thus allotting
themselves only so much time to play Minecraft. This has actually been
an issue even amongst staff as we get called to try and cut down people
prolonging to either metagame [known as stalling] or drive the other
person into a face-desk at the fact that it is now 6:30PM when he hopped
into the fight at 5:45PM. Players can easily abuse by prolonging a
fight whilst fighting a war with words alongside their clique to shame
and degrade the player that is still fighting. Ties back into #1.
 
This has no proof. Some can last a long while and be dreadful while others can last a bit and be amazing. I remember some RPs that took 30 minutes or so and strangers would come to see us and tell us to stop dodging eachother. But that was our characters. Neither of us trained in armor, neither of us were wearing restricting clothing. Eventually we bested each other and we both enjoyed it. If you don't like a situation, remove yourself from it.

4. Lag actually makes you better in PvP as your hitbox is harder to get a registered hit mind you all. Likewise, spam-clicking DOES NOT work, Blawharag proved this.
 
Alright, .8 second clicking*. It's still not much better seeing as if you have quite the low grade computer that freezes constantly, you're still screwed regardless. It's like that one song. "You can't stop a bullet".

I hope this persuades people into either throwing out their illogical
arguments or at the very least persuades people to give the ol Aegis
Rp-PvP system a chance. Thank You for hearing me out!

[Polgrath 215]

Hey there LOTC!

                Haven't been too active these last two weeks or so but here's my magey two cents on the topic.
I started out when Anthos begun as a firm supporter of RP combat, it's implementation in Asulon had lofty goals and RP is generally a good thing to strive for. However as time went on, I and many others have come to see that the path to hell is indeed paved with good intentions. IC hate has been brought oocly, ban reports have exponentially gone up, combat now takes often more then an hour, and powergaming is as rampant as chlamydia. However I still held on to the hopes that we could make RP work for far too long. I thought of exceptions such as skills not easily represented in MC combat and of course the plight of the poor pvped master wizard. However with the upcoming plug-in including magic and making PVP more interesting I have no way to continue to try to justify RP combat. I have been won over to the "dark" side.

To bring a little Orwell into this;
Polgrath had won the battle against himself. He loved Big Clicker.

 

 

 

(Also Gaius's option, as well thought as it is, diverts votes from the two main options we are deciding on today. We should decide if we want RP or PVP default first and THEN work on the specifics and exceptions to each of the laws instead of taking fourty votes or so out of the mix between the two big contenders. Mayhap a secondary poll after the results of this one to work out specifics?)

[Zebanamana 410]

Alright. So instead of addressing this problem, we're instead pushing it aside like a child does with the vegetables on his plate. We're not solving this, we're making it so we won't see it. Tell me something. If you've seen this so often, have you made an attempt to help them improve their RP? Have you once sent them a PM and said "Hey, I'd like to talk to you about..." and genuinely tried to improve someone's RP? I'm going to just go ahead and say no. Why? Because it's not your job and you shouldn't have to do it. So instead, here we are. Replacing the entire system because we don't want to make an attempt to help those struggling with the current and instead creating a new system that regardless of what happens, people may not be able to improve in. 

 

They did address it and try to quell the amount of ban reports that dealt with Powergaming. Thus led to the rise of the incessant app for everything. Extended villainy, magic of all sorts, do you have lore for a weapon? Do you have lore for a specific fighting style? How many hours irl have you trained your character in this method? 

 

We tried to quell the amount of powergamers by adding apps and bureaucracy, and most people hate it because it sucks the fun right out.

[Neri 3590]

Well... Generally when people apply for RP servers... They want it to be an RP server.

 

Whether we fight using MC mechanics or not, we're still a RP server. Combat RP has only become MASSIVE as of recently, and people seem to judge the whole worth of the server based on that. Madness.

[gg12gg 69]

Well... Generally when people apply for RP servers... They want it to be an RP server.

Why should anyone care if LotC is specifically the #1 RP server? It gets new players everyday, and is constantly active. It doesn't need to be #1.

 

And again, nothing in the PVP changes would detract from RP. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think it's time for people to stop with the arbitrary justifications for the current system. All it leads to is power gaming, which will never be stamped out as long as RP fighting is mandatory. You are outright ignoring the logic and reasoning behind the needed changes.

[Samson Option 9652]

Since so many seem to really want for somebody to do this, I'll suppose I'll attempt to refute these points. Let me just... -Puts on safety helmet-.

 

Alright. So instead of addressing this

problem, we're instead pushing it aside like a child does with the

vegetables on his plate. We're not solving this, we're making it so we

won't see it. Tell me something. If you've seen this so often, have you

made an attempt to help them improve their RP? Have you once sent them a

PM and said "Hey, I'd like to talk to you about..." and genuinely tried

to improve someone's RP? I'm going to just go ahead and say no. Why?

Because it's not your job and you shouldn't have to do it. So instead,

here we are. Replacing the entire system because we don't want to make

an attempt to help those struggling with the current and instead

creating a new system that regardless of what happens, people may not be

able to improve in.

 

Mind you, this is a video game and as I explained further, some people do not possess the time to do so. I think your analogy is improper, likewise other players have genuinely pointed out that 'attempts to improve' aren't working and has caused staff much stress.

 

You're right. In the beginning, it

wasn't a hardcore RP server. It was a server that happened to have RP.

However, much like LotC has changed in our hands, so has our genre. We

no longer PVP because we've thought for so long now that RP is better

and many of us still agree. Does this mean we've banned PVP? No. It's

become a regular part of our server in large scaled battles and wars and

even the orcish klomping.

 

Who is we? Majority-rule is an ugly mask to wear.

 

If you remember in the Aegis system,

everything was much more relaxed. You certainly didn't have to RP

proficiently. I distinctly remember one RP where an Undead Inquisitor

and Guraim lead me to an abandoned building and in one line, pulled a

lever which dropped me into a pit of lava. There was no emote for it, it

was just done on a whim.

 

So mind you, you couldn't put that imagination to use? Ironically enough, we've relied on brute-forcing creativity as Blindmind asserted. With the elitist "my emote is longer than yours", you leave so little to the imagination as they say.

 

Sure. Let's also make it so we have to

emote breathing. There needs to be balance. We have a good balance

currently, even if some cannot see it. We use minecraft, an easily

changable and rather unique medium, because we all enjoy it and payed a

(enter amount of currency here) for it, so we figured "Why not!".

Might as well, because it is unRP to use mechanics. Balance is an ambigious word to use, I think it is balanced to allow people to use mechanics to allow themselves more time to do much more than 'Conflict RP' that is so heralded against. One hour 1/2 IRL to fight is unbalanced mayhaps?

 

This has no proof. Some can last a long

while and be dreadful while others can last a bit and be amazing. I

remember some RPs that took 30 minutes or so and strangers would come to

see us and tell us to stop dodging eachother. But that was our

characters. Neither of us trained in armor, neither of us were wearing

restricting clothing. Eventually we bested each other and we both

enjoyed it. If you don't like a situation, remove yourself from it.

 

By setting the precedent, if we allow Voiding, lo behold it will be mighty abusable.

 

Alright, .8 second clicking*. It's still

not much better seeing as if you have quite the low grade computer that

freezes constantly, you're still screwed regardless. It's like that one

song. "You can't stop a bullet".

 

I personally was horrid at PvP, lo and behold I have solid evidence in the formation and reign of the Teutonic Order back in Aegis.

[Stephensj 327]

Why cant everyone just go snuggle with some kittens

[Dyn 149]

They did address it and try to quell the amount of ban reports that dealt with Powergaming. Thus led to the rise of the incessant app for everything. Extended villainy, magic of all sorts, do you have lore for a weapon? Do you have lore for a specific fighting style? How many hours irl have you trained your character in this method? 

 

We tried to quell the amount of powergamers by adding apps and bureaucracy, and most people hate it because it sucks the fun right out.

Well, I'll try to address this post from top to bottom.

 

We've always had ban reports. If it isn't in one aspect, it'll merely be in another. However, now we have a key thing in ban reports to solve the problem. The whole "Proof you've attempted to solve the situation and stuffs" or something like that section. Should we have to have lore on every little thing? If I grow a special kind of mohawk that looks pointier than anyone else's, should I have to make lore for it? If I can dodge your attacks pretty well and I happen to specialize in unarmored fighting, is that really so ridiculous? Players will still be at eachother's necks, but instead of for powergaming, it'll be "This guy's a sucky villain cause..." or "he didn't do enough rp to...". Nothing will change. Ban reports will regulate as always.

 

Apps have existed since before we used RP fighting. They weren't made to quell powergamers, they were made to sort the elite (for lack of better words) RPers from the rest. Also something everyone forgets is that these apps are infact optional and not necessary for anything you do not OOCly push your character in the direction of.

 

 

Mind you, this is a video game and as I explained further, some people do not possess the time to do so. I think your analogy is improper, likewise other players have genuinely pointed out that 'attempts to improve' aren't working and has caused staff much stress.

If you have the time to run around RPing, you have time to benefit someone's RP. Just simply linking them to a guide could suffice, but nobody really ever considers this.

 

 

Who is we? Majority-rule is an ugly mask to wear.

 

Let's go ahead and say the majority of the rule following LotCers, as PVP became a thing use for 1. Wars and 2. Specially accepted fighting. Otherwise, it was regulated by RP fighting.

So mind you, you couldn't put that imagination to use? Ironically enough, we've relied on brute-forcing creativity as Blindmind asserted. With the elitist "my emote is longer than yours", you leave so little to the imagination as they say.

I never believed longer post made a point stronger. There is such thing as forcing too much imagination in while there is such thing as vivid detail. I have seen a majority of your RP post. They're really good! And they're also pretty long sometimes. They also tell events that have usually already happened, which makes them seem nice. Usual RP should, in my opinion, be only about two lines maximum for a strike unless there is an extremely specific thing you're trying to do. I'm not sure what you tried to say by brute-force as I haven't read Blindmind's assertion, sorry.

 

 

Might as well, because it is unRP to use mechanics. Balance is an ambigious word to use, I think it is balanced to allow people to use mechanics to allow themselves more time to do much more than 'Conflict RP' that is so heralded against. One hour 1/2 IRL to fight is unbalanced mayhaps?

Again, sometimes fights are quicker than such. I'm sorry if you have had such events, but you should consider using certain advantages such as stealth and teamwork if it really takes that long for one fight.

 

By setting the precedent, if we allow Voiding, lo behold it will be mighty abusable.

Why? Why should we not be able to void roleplay someone doesn't want to be a part of? Should we not care for eachother's enjoyment as we care for our own? You say you are tired of those situations, but you put yourself in such places. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to simply leave.

 

 

I personally was horrid at PvP, lo and behold I have solid evidence in the formation and reign of the Teutonic Order back in Aegis.

Alright. Just because you're horrid doesn't mean someone else is automatically better. Lots of people say they're horrid, but they enjoy it. I personally consider myself horrid, but I can get 1-3 hits in with an stone sword before going down on other servers (without armor). I'm not sure what the last part is saying necessarily.

[Aetosion 2062]

Yep, no roleplaying on pvp servers.

You're being ridiculous. This question was answered in the Livestream. If you refuse, the other person can either be respectful and accommodate you, or they can kill you. Unlike how Void an RP fight, it's kind of tough to not take damage. If you run away, it's still fine for the PVPer.

[Neri 3590]

Why cant everyone just go snuggle with some kittens

 

We burnt them to power the server. Didn't you get the memo?

 

 

Oh right we burnt the memos too.

[Overland 349]

  I've been in both role-play and PvP fights, I like them both for different reasons. I think it is better to use PvP in the larger fights and either in smaller ones, depending on what you're doing or who you're with.

Why not just make PvP default for larger fights and let the parties decide on smaller ones?

Maybe power-gaming emotes could also be ignored or treated as an attempt instead of a forced action?  

[Mish_ 101]

Uhm a bit at a loss...

 

 

RP gives more freedom, more whining

 

PVP less freedom, quicker, and a bit less whining

 

(I used to pvp daily chumps... Do you even PvP?)

 

 

Eh I got with the flow now!

 

(I rocked back in my day, then I went afk to use the bathroom, and I got raided :/)