Snow Elves Vs. High Elves

[Adran 10]

     I don't really know where to put this, so I'll just ask here. I keep hearing different things from different people, so I'd like to settle this once and for all. Are snow elves "genetically" different from the other high elves or not? In other words, if you took a snow elf child and a high elf child at birth and raised them in the same way in the same place, and repeated the experiment as many times as you needed, would there be any difference between the average snow elf and the average high elf or would they be, on average, physically identical in every way?

     For example, on the wiki it says that snow elves are inherently more resistant to cold than high elves, but I've been told now that the wiki is not an official lore source. So...this should be a relatively easy question to answer, right? Anyway, here is a list of characteristics that the snow elves may have "evolved" if they actually did "evolve."

1. Pale skin and hair (possibly to blend in with their environment), mentioned on the wiki.

2. Resistance to cold (for obvious reasons), mentioned on the wiki.

3. Vulnerability to fire (any natural resistance to fire is useless in the cold and such a trait may disappear), mentioned on the wiki.

4. Low body temperature (useful so that their bodies don't have to spend so much energy maintaining body heat), mentioned on the wiki.

5. Slightly smaller eyes (the large quantity of snow and ice would make their natural habitat extremely bright, so eyes that let in less light would allow them to see without going blind), something I just added.

6. A little less pointy ears (the pointed ears of the elf are vulnerable extremities to which it is difficult to get blood (just like your fingers and nose in the cold); shortening these makes them less likely to get frostbitten), the opposite of what is said on the wiki.

7. Slightly shorter (this would minimize the surface area:volume ratio, making them retain heat slightly better), mentioned on the wiki.

     Anyway, I'd really like to know this so that I can actually make lore about the snow elves. I can't very well write origin stories/legends for a people about whom I don't even know. I'd definitely appreciate if a Lore Master would take just a second to clarify this for me. Thanks!

[Leetles 65]

Snow elves are a culture, their race is just a high elf.

[Adran 10]

I would like to hear this from a lore master...and if that is the case, I think the wiki page should really, really be changed.

[MamaBearJade 2088]

Creeper, snow elves are only a culture, it has been stated several times. It has already been brought to the attention of those working on the Wiki that that page is in existence. Honestly it gets tiresome for the AT to get applicants wanting to place the race "Snow Elf".

 

They are a culture.

 

 

Edit: The wiki page has been fixed with the approval of a Lore Master.

 

 

 

Mali'Fenn (Snow Elf) are High Elves who have become used to the colder climates. They have developed their own culture yet share the same blood as High Elves.

[Samler 1048]

Been told of former GM Cappy so maaaaaany times that it's only a culture. Back in the days, it was accepted as a culture while the snow elves constantly claimed to be a race. IC, it's all good to call yourself a race but OOC it's just a culture.

[Jistuma 1995]

1. Pale skin and hair (possibly to blend in with their environment), mentioned on the wiki.

High elves have pale skin and hair.

 

2. Resistance to cold (for obvious reasons), mentioned on the wiki.

They so wanted this, and it's not really a problem unless they simply can't die in the cold. Being resistant to the cold does not mean imune.

 

3. Vulnerability to fire (any natural resistance to fire is useless in the cold and such a trait may disappear), mentioned on the wiki.

No problem with this, if they want to have their bodies acostumed to the cold and feel sick in the heat, that's alright.

 

4. Low body temperature (useful so that their bodies don't have to spend so much energy maintaining body heat), mentioned on the wiki.

This doesn't make much sense.

 

5. Slightly smaller eyes (the large quantity of snow and ice would make their natural habitat extremely bright, so eyes that let in less light would allow them to see without going blind), something I just added.

Mild change to the eyes could happen.

 

6. A little less pointy ears (the pointed ears of the elf are vulnerable extremities to which it is difficult to get blood (just like your fingers and nose in the cold); shortening these makes them less likely to get frostbitten), the opposite of what is said on the wiki.

You mean shorter ears, not less pointy. Elves have pointy ears.

 

7. Slightly shorter (this would minimize the surface area:volume ratio, making them retain heat slightly better), mentioned on the wiki.

They can be shorter yes.

 

 

Now, they are still high elves in the end, they could have adapted slightly to the cold, but you have to understand they are still elves, they live for long times, and don't have many children, and this way, they would adapt very slowly. In the end, they would be just a slightly different high elf, but seeing a snow elf, and a high elf from behind, and there wouldn't be any real difference. See them from the front and they have more closed eyes. Physically, they are almost identical, there being snow elves that look exacly like high elves, and the reverse as well. The difference between them is simply culture. Snow elves live in cold climates, that is basicly it.

[Adran 10]

1. Pale skin and hair (possibly to blend in with their environment), mentioned on the wiki.

High elves have pale skin and hair.

 

2. Resistance to cold (for obvious reasons), mentioned on the wiki.

They so wanted this, and it's not really a problem unless they simply can't die in the cold. Being resistant to the cold does not mean imune.

 

3. Vulnerability to fire (any natural resistance to fire is useless in the cold and such a trait may disappear), mentioned on the wiki.

No problem with this, if they want to have their bodies acostumed to the cold and feel sick in the heat, that's alright.

 

4. Low body temperature (useful so that their bodies don't have to spend so much energy maintaining body heat), mentioned on the wiki.

This doesn't make much sense.

 

5. Slightly smaller eyes (the large quantity of snow and ice would make their natural habitat extremely bright, so eyes that let in less light would allow them to see without going blind), something I just added.

Mild change to the eyes could happen.

 

6. A little less pointy ears (the pointed ears of the elf are vulnerable extremities to which it is difficult to get blood (just like your fingers and nose in the cold); shortening these makes them less likely to get frostbitten), the opposite of what is said on the wiki.

You mean shorter ears, not less pointy. Elves have pointy ears.

 

7. Slightly shorter (this would minimize the surface area:volume ratio, making them retain heat slightly better), mentioned on the wiki.

They can be shorter yes.

 

 

Now, they are still high elves in the end, they could have adapted slightly to the cold, but you have to understand they are still elves, they live for long times, and don't have many children, and this way, they would adapt very slowly. In the end, they would be just a slightly different high elf, but seeing a snow elf, and a high elf from behind, and there wouldn't be any real difference. See them from the front and they have more closed eyes. Physically, they are almost identical, there being snow elves that look exacly like high elves, and the reverse as well. The difference between them is simply culture. Snow elves live in cold climates, that is basicly it.

Well, thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

1. The wiki said they had even paler hair/skin, sometimes bluish.

4. It actually would make sense if they could evolve sufficiently to have their bodies function at a lower temperature, and they certainly wouldn't be the first animals to do that, but it would be a very big evolutionary leap, something that might not make sense if they're only slightly different.

6. Shorter ears, but also the points of the ears are extremities and would be extremely vulnerable to frostbite. I think it might make sense for them to be slightly less pointy but still decidedly elven.

 

But most importantly, thanks for clarifying the general concept. It's quite difficult to roleplay or write lore when everybody's telling me contradictory things about the people about whom I am writing. Now I can actually start writing in earnest.

[Lima 773]

Think of it like this. I am British and Scandinavians in Sweden and Norway are both white. We are both Germanic peoples who as populations may have similar traints developed that are 'characteristic' to our distinct populations, however we are all just Germanic Caucasians. 

Similarly, High Elves and Snow Elves are nothing but two different cultures and populations but of the same race. The wiki was edited by Jax, a snow elf, and he has changed things that may not be accurate or allowed. The wiki is open to edit and may be changed by anyone who requests wiki access.

I could right now, considering I have wiki access, go say that Snow Elves are prone to epilepsy, or just declare them a subrace without permission from the lore team, does not make it lore correct or allowed. 

PS.

Them being slightly able to live in cold environments is more something you would adopt over time as a persona as your body finds it more prudent to produce low temperature enzymes for its actions. I would doubt they are anything lower than 1 or 2 degrees Celsius cooler in core temperature, but they may be less likely to blush and turn red, exposing their blood to cool close to the surface.

However, this would presumably make them quite lethargic. 

[Alan 1815]

I could right now, considering I have wiki access, go say that Snow Elves are prone to epilepsy, or just declare them a subrace without permission from the lore team, does not make it lore correct or allowed.

 

Wait, so Snow Elves aren't prone to epilepsy? :(

[Lima 773]

Wait, so Snow Elves aren't prone to epilepsy? :(

 

Only fits of sporadic dancing. 

 

[zaezae 1097]

You can dramatically acclimate your body to different environments, but your body temp will remain static. That's how you adapt, your body becomes more proactive at keeping you warm. If you are a warm blooded creature, like an elf, you wouldn't need to lower your body temperature at all! Though, I would imagine Snow Elves would have to eat a little bit more food than otherwise. Heat costs energy!

I think it would make perfect sense for Snow elves to have some significant appearance differences. After all, geographic difference between two groups of people of the same race would lead to different physical appearances, even if they are still the very same at their core. Much like humans, both IRL and IG.

[Adran 10]

     Body temperature actually can change, but it requires a large evolutionary leap (much larger than that of the snow elves, more between different families of animals or maybe orders...), and it's not something that you see among different races of humans. I was just trying to synthesize a possible explanation for the characteristic mentioned on the wiki...which is wrong anyway. Different animals operate on different temperatures, it's just that there are big gaps in the evolutionary tree between them, if that makes any sense.

     Basically, it all boils down to one question: for how many generations did the snow elves live apart from the other high elves? Given the elves' long lifespans and poor fertility, this is somewhat hard to measure. The greater the number of generations between their initial isolation/emigration and now, the more different they will probably be.

     Also, if they did have significant physical differences, they would have to be classified as a different sub-race, not just a culture. So that means that any differences have to be rather subtle. For example, if you studied a high elf's face for a few seconds, you might be able to say with reasonable certainty whether he is a snow elf or not. But probably no more than that. Anyway, I think this thread has run its course and answered the initial question. Thanks to everyone who replied to try to clarify the true nature of the mali'fenn.

[Leetles 65]

 Different animals operate on different temperatures, it's just that there are big gaps in the evolutionary tree between them, if that makes any sense.

 

Those animals, are lizards etc. Cold blooded ones. But elves aren't animals.

[Swgrclan 2635]

I do not believe the evolutionary aspects of real-world sciences apply to this world. All things are made of magic, so such details would not be necessary if your goal is to explain these mutations.

[Hydra 513]

     Body temperature actually can change, but it requires a large evolutionary leap (much larger than that of the snow elves, more between different families of animals or maybe orders...), and it's not something that you see among different races of humans. I was just trying to synthesize a possible explanation for the characteristic mentioned on the wiki...which is wrong anyway. Different animals operate on different temperatures, it's just that there are big gaps in the evolutionary tree between them, if that makes any sense.

     Basically, it all boils down to one question: for how many generations did the snow elves live apart from the other high elves? Given the elves' long lifespans and poor fertility, this is somewhat hard to measure. The greater the number of generations between their initial isolation/emigration and now, the more different they will probably be.

     Also, if they did have significant physical differences, they would have to be classified as a different sub-race, not just a culture. So that means that any differences have to be rather subtle. For example, if you studied a high elf's face for a few seconds, you might be able to say with reasonable certainty whether he is a snow elf or not. But probably no more than that. Anyway, I think this thread has run its course and answered the initial question. Thanks to everyone who replied to try to clarify the true nature of the mali'fenn.

Erm not very many... Elves infertility would make the amount of generations at best 3 to 4