[5.0] Development Update | 1.10 Update & Transition Info

[Travista 1361]

Remove professions

[idiot 502]

Thanks! ^-^

[Your Favorite Impure 736]

I have a more proper title for ya:


All memes aside, I'm not a fan of this wipe, and I'm not even that high of a level compared to most of the players really being affected by this. I stated this in the past: that the only thing this will accomplish (unless skills were wiped for a completely new system) is a grindfest by those who are already high levels and those who care enough to grind. In the end you'll have the same result within a month or two and this will be just a minor bump in the road that many would rather avoid. 

[Your Favorite Impure 736]

Just now, Sythan said:

 

In my opinion, the 'minor bump' is nothing compared to how this will positively impact player retention. I'm sure many people have seen new players trying to sell low tier swords in which results in failure, as people have been grinding blacksmith since Athera.

I started on the server at the start of Athera, and the fact that I had the chance to keep up with the top people in a certain profession made the server more appealing. More competitive. I think newer players who are in a closer league with veterans will help the player retention issue.

I've always found that people being much higher than I to be a motivator rather than a deterrence. This whole skill wipe concept really doesn't help the "little people". Where will they get the tools and gear required to level most of the skills? The individuals who are already high leveled will be well supplied regarding this (due to being in cities/guilds/etc), thus they will more quickly level and those who are apparently unmotivated to grind will once more reacquire their previous state of thought/feeling.

[Your Favorite Impure 736]

Just now, Sythan said:

 

I see your point. After thinking over my own post for a while, I think the root of a lot of issues can be pinpointed at economy and minas. Ever since the 'Keys' system was introduced, minas became even harder to come by (tbh I havent voted in a long while, so maybe things have changed. Correct me if they have.). So perhaps making a more reliable source of minas for the people who aren't of a high leveled profession would help even things out a bit. 

 

I will keep to my original stance of I agree with a wipe. I think keeping them from Athera to Vailor was where the issue started, since people then assumed we'd keep them forever. I do agree with what people said previously, that the amount of XP you get in 5.0 should be determined by how much you have currently.

Likewise, I can see your point very well also. Though, I have also admittedly not voted for quite some time, though one can assume it hasn't changed too much in terms of the ease of gaining minas. I also agree with your last statement though, as I feel it would overall be more of a compromise than what is currently suggested. o7

[Salvo 1852]

So, while giving new players a "chance" to get on the top spots you completely **** over those that already worked hard for it with absolute 0 compensation? SquirtGun is losing 25+ million XP, JFC. I myself, if I set my mind on it, can literally reach Aengulic blacksmith in the FIRST week of 5.0 and trust me, I will not be RPing for that. This skill wipe accomplishes absolutely nothing if they keep using the same, broken system, which they will because nothing has changed.

 

The problem is not with High LvL People and grinding, the problem lies directly within Nexus, a rotting plugin that's not needed and is unwanted by a the majority of the playerbase, myself included. But whatever, feedback threads have never been listened to either way.

[_mkkk_ 194]

Could we just not reduce the Minas we had and the XP for skills, not a whole wipe...? You're really just making me want to die inside a little considering the responses from surveys of the community. 

[Trenchist 864]

Now I need to update my cheats, thank you very much dev team.

[argonian 14254]

This doesn't even the playing field at all. Each group's still gonna get their own blacksmith to craft their stuff, meaning those blacksmiths will get enough iron and business to get up to supercali. After a few weeks we'll be back to the same situation. If you really wanted to level the playing field, you'd be giving every new player skill points upon joining the server and leaving our levels alone. And I say this as someone who isn't masterful or veteran in a single skill, I'd benefit from this and I can still see it's dumb.

[Weabootrash 412]

/vault doesnt work, the server hasnt restarted yet, using the - to continue sentences makes the sentence on a new line sometimes. jesus christ what went wrong 

[Z3r05t4r 855]

All this discussion about skills and so forth reminds me of a proposal I made some time back in another thread, handling exactly this issue. Don't know which one it was, has been a hot topic for a while.

 

I say, keep Nexus Crafting. Rework skill system.

 

Make professions non-levelable, but merely pickable. 2 max, regardless of everything (except maybe persona time to have a third one to choose). Have everyone being able to craft almost anything, regardless of their chosen professions. Those who have chosen a profession and intend to craft something specific, get a timeboost, quality boost or something related to that. Add to the persona, that you can NOT switch professions, once chosen (to avoid to hop between professions to get the best of the best. If we can not prevent it between different personas, at least within one character).

 

This would give a touch of professions and jobs to people's characters. This removes the need and want for grind. This appeals to those who prefer a more vanilla crafting system where you are not hindered in crafting "advanced" blocks by a grind number and a skill name called profession.

 

The details could easily be worked out. I think it would offer a viable solution.

 

EDIT: I just saw that someone came up with the same rough idea.

 

EDIT2: Also, found my previous post on the matter.

 

 

[FloralHedgehog 493]

Wouln't it be a bit more fair if people that actually have a skill in masterfull+ would get the 150000xp and people that don't have a skill in masterfull get the amount of xp in their highest level (someone being adept at something would get  adept in that skill on the next map.)

[Jake the Dog 290]

**** the people who spent time on the server. bah what do those who spent time mean anyway right? You like to work hard for exp? LOL gone. You don't want to work at all for EXP? LOL free exp boost for you.

[Bvie 1754]

6 hours ago, Salvo said:

So, while giving new players a "chance" to get on the top spots you completely **** over those that already worked hard for it with absolute 0 compensation? SquirtGun is losing 25+ million XP, JFC. I myself, if I set my mind on it, can literally reach Aengulic blacksmith in the FIRST week of 5.0 and trust me, I will not be RPing for that. This skill wipe accomplishes absolutely nothing if they keep using the same, broken system, which they will because nothing has changed.

 

The problem is not with High LvL People and grinding, the problem lies directly within Nexus, a rotting plugin that's not needed and is unwanted by a the majority of the playerbase, myself included. But whatever, feedback threads have never been listened to either way.

 

While the wipe is annoying, it isn't even my main issue. Its handing Masterful to people that didn't earn it/never crafted in their life/further ruining the  ruined player-interactive economy.

 

Suggestions:

Instead of giving Masterful (150,000 XP) to everyone, lower the basic necessities that professions give to Fair and give people enough XP to be Fair (3,000 XP). 
-This doesn't undermine the work of many on the past maps by giving a 'free pass' in their eyes.

-This doesn't prevent players from making basic things.

-This bypasses the 'Fatigue levels'(Levels where you get Slowness and mining fatigue when gathering)

-This still makes lower items that you use to level off of (such as, coal, stone, redstone, etc), have some sort of value.

 

Remove Skill Top Lists

-None of this arguing about 'new players need a fair chance' existed when no one knew where they ranked.

-It leads to more meta than already exists.

-Players can sell 'weaker' items because the playerbase doesn't easily know whats best/better or who can make something better.

-It honestly serves nothing than to oocly inform the playerbase where the top 10 players are of that craft and for showboating.

 

Discussion:

 

Players need to stop having a, 'I must be #1!' mindset. While you may think that's hypocritical from me with my skills, it's not about being #1 for me. It's about completing things. There have been many times where I log on early/late and RP is just stagnant or in a lull, and I really don't want to go out and start RPing (Getting involved in something that I will have to leave soon is detrimental to myself, as well as others,  in my eyes.), and would prefer to sit in town and talk to friends OOCly while I grind a bit. If it wasn't for skills, I could simply log and do it on Skype. But I stay on a bit longer, I log in a bit earlier, because I have an additional goal to complete on the server. In a sense, Skills keeps me logged in at times where RP doesn't. And while that shouldn't be a defining factor or argument against everything (And I still stand by that skills is far from perfect and should be fixed, not removed entirely), it is a point that should be taken into consideration.

 

There are players and people that like to strive for things. As an AT person, I see it more now than ever. People wanting to become a master smith, or world-wide known bowyer, an amazing alchemist, etc. These are goals that new players have when they come on the server, and while nothing is stopping them from going out and RPing this knowledge and learning, they have Skills to fall back on and work at to further reinforce their claims. You may argue that no player should be restricted mechanically about what they wish to do in RP, however that's a known issue on the server. From raid rules, to coup rules, to region perms, to arson, there's many times where mechanically you need to work at something to have the impact you want to have RPly. This is seen in our Whitelist Application rules. You cannot apply as a Master in anything, politics, lordship, crafts, magic, nothing. You are told to make yourself an apprentice or decent at something, then develop your skills and character on the server. Which is why I don't understand we're handing Masterful(150,000XP), enabling them to make everything and anything for a profession/skill, to a new persona instead of Apprentice (1,500XP) or Fair (3,000XP) where they can make the basic things for the profession and develop their characters further.

 

By handing over such power and ability to these personas/players, I feel it will indirectly hurt player retention on a hourly/daily basis. There are times where people feel similar to what I described above, where players may not want to RP but remain on the server and chat with friends but accomplish something in the mean time. Having small goals, even for veteran players, that need to be completed may further push a player to log in instead of going to play Overwatch, which puts more people on the server. While this may or may not increase the chance of RP happening, I know when I log in the morning and see 70/200 instead of 30/200, I'm more inclined to log in.

 

But back to small goals, this also helps retain new players. As @Your Favorite Impure™ said it quite well earlier in this thread, if a player feels like they have competition, they'll work at becoming better. I'm a Vailor baby. Joining this server I wanted to become something, I just didn't know what. When I found my groove with mining, I made the decision that I wanted to be the best miner on the server. This was long, long before Top Skill lists were a thing. I just knew that I wanted to log on and mine. I wanted to log on and make my character better. I didn't care about rewards, I knew that the higher levels gave nothing. But I wanted to do them to be the best, to complete my goal. That's what made me log in. This, in turn, became a new side goal, now that I have all these ores, I want to sell them and make a trading guild. I wanted to be part of the best trading guild, that people would come from all around because they'd know that we'd have what they were looking for, always. It became a goal and I set off to accomplish it, creating more goals and more reasons (both RP and Mechanical) that kept me logged in. Its what created Sutica and is what our culture is all about, being a haven for crafters/tradesmen/ and the such. 

 

I'm not saying that my case is every case for every player. What I'm saying is that people enjoy having goals and they work at creating such goals. You can argue that, 'Oh Lily! You could have just RPed being the best miner in all the lands, and people would be okay with that!'  While that may be true in some cases, lets be real. If a new player was to log in right now and go to the Dwarves and say they were the best Runesmith/Golemancer/Tinker/Engineer/Etc in the lands, he'd be ignored, laughed at, etc. If a new player were to log in right now and go to the Orcs and say they were the best Hunter/Brawler/Shaman/Weaponsmith/Rex/etc in all the lands, they'd be laughed at and ignored. If a new player were to log into Felsen and say they were the best Swordsmith/Guard/Lord/etc in all the lands, they'd be Pugsy'd (Just poking fun Felseners :) )

 

My point is, these groups have their OOC cliques and friends that are all these things already. Any new player that walks in and threatens such a position or title, friends will defend, ignore, and push away and keep their friend held high. RPly or Mechanically, this will happen. The new player doesn't have the fair chance regardless unless they prove themselves, and even then in RP, its nearly impossible. I believe @CosmicWhaleShark made a post about this a while back, how he tried to RP being an amazing blacksmith as a Wood Elf, and got a ton of flack for this. But Nexus(while not perfect still) allowed him to produce items of a higher level that he was able to use to represent his skill in RP, but mechanically. It gave him some sort of backing. He could have simply not leveled smith at all, and simply RPed it. But having a mechanic backing helped further his RP and help prove his RP claims.

 

 

tl;dr

Since I don't wish to ramble further than I already may have, I'll wrap it up. I think removing the Top 10 Skill lists is a good thing to do. It prevents easy meta-gaming and encourages more of a "go out and search for" mindset. I'm against giving XP to players/persona for free, but believe if you have to, only give enough so that the basic functions of the profession are possible. Instead of 150,000XP (Masterful) give 3,000XP(Fair) or 1,500XP(Apprentice). People play on this server for various reasons, but small goals keep everyone inclined to log in and do something. Don't remove small goals. Just because something is challenging/competitive doesn't mean it isn't fair. 

[zaezae 1098]

Oh puh-leese. Letting people have exactly one, count'em, one skill that they can be helpful with isn't totally going to ruin your egotistical quest to the top of the compost bin pile. It's nothing to what grinders can produce in a week, but it's everything to people who have to think about rather or not they can even log on tonight. Like, oh no, some people that don't even play mechanical side will get to *gasp* make a small set of items every once in a while! B-but they di-didn't earn it! Th-they were roleplaying, or working jobs! Wh-who do they think they are getting a single bump in a single profession that is utterly meaningless to my utlimga grind super fest!

 

But no seriously. I support a grind-wall that excludes a portion of players out of certain aspects of the game. That is totally fair.