What is wrong with magic?

[ScreamingDingo 20568]

OHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHHOHOHOHOHO A MAGIC FEEDBACK FRIEND LETS GO.

 

 

Abyssus literally states my main point, the entire problem with magic lies within the playerbase of LotC. People who make characters on this server fall for the hole that is essentially minmaxing. This server is not intended for every person to be a protagonist, yet magic tries to encourage such behaviour and has created the toxicity amongst the 'hardcore RP' portion of the server. I use that term lightly because they use OOC  a disgusting amount and only do so to gather and establish ridiculous power-creeps over other players.

If magic was a supplement for characters instead of an end all defining feature, perhaps it could be redeemed and the **** lore could be rewritten. But at the current moment, all mages simply use it to be the 'ooc best and strongest mage' and avoid consequences. If the magic on LotC was less orientated on combat then I would believe it would remove quite alot of the bad eggs, but that'll never happen because the problems with magic start from the very top of the hierarchy and cannot be knocked off.

[Ixli 1472]

I am a frequent magic user myself, but I get really tediously annoyed sometimes. People who are granted the ability to wield magic need to prove that they are a good roleplayer. Magic is all about the immersive quality of it. This means that all magic emotes should be in depth and a nice read. Too often now a days I see people summoning orbs out of nowhere and sending them at the heads of people with no description behind it at all. Use metaphors, similes, whatever you need to do. 

 

TL;DR:

Magic users need to prove themselves as good RPers, and make their emotes descriptive and fun to read. It should be interesting for both the mage and the one on the receiving end.

[drfate786 1690]

1 hour ago, Smaw said:

It really is underwhelming to use Magic in a context outside of combat, because the vast majority of people have neither the interest nor the creativity to delve outside of what provides instant gratification. 

 

I really think combat within Magics should be explored in later stages (such as T3) and that level progression can only take place with strict adherence and exploration of the magic type.

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Some magics, IE (Necromancy), only allow non-combat related skills to occur at T3. Raising ghouls, flesh smithing, creating cursed weapons and artifacts, all things that relate to necromancy outside of combat require high tiers. The same can be argued for most magics, it's all just combat related things early on and nothing major until then.

1 hour ago, Abyssus said:

magic lore is fine

 

its just the playerbase that's trash

 

which frankly i don't have a solution for, because the MT compose of said playerbase

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Now, who brought this up? I did, I said the players were trash. Now, what was that about me never being correct all the time? >:(

[ScreamingDingo 20568]

1 minute ago, Gargled said:

 This means that all magic emotes should be in depth and a nice read.

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The problem with magic is not how people emote, that is a 4 IQ solution to a problem buried into the very fabric of magic as a concept.

[drfate786 1690]

2 minutes ago, GrimReaper98 said:

The problem with magic is not how people emote, that is a 4 IQ solution to a problem buried into the very fabric of magic as a concept.

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It is how people emote, it's also how they use said magic during said emotes. Magic itself is never to blame, it's the idgets that abuse magic with a play to win mentality that are the problem.

[D4NNA 284]

It's true that the lack of fluff in emotes is not the culprit of what is wrong with magic, but doing proper emotes and staying consisting with the wae magic users represent magic roleplay, is a huge factor. It breaks my heart when I see a magic caster who uses the minimum of 3 emotes which consist of 5 words max each attempting to one-shot an enemy the fastest way possible because of some bias ****, or to gain maximum of pixels for their e-girl mage.

A higher standard in emotes is always enjoyable to see, and enables other players to respond with the same caliber of roleplay.
But! The whole lot behind it, the minmaxing/powergaming/abuse/imbalance etc., whatever one might call it, make the impact. 
This needs to be changed.

I think the problem aligns with the thesis of the unstoppable force which meets the immovable object.

I'd like to take the example of T5 Clerics, warding places. This has received quite alot of critique, and had people trying to backdoor the wards.
This resulted in poor roleplay and more imbalance, yet the holy ward was created with sufficient roleplay and surely would be enjoyable for players to create.

|On the other hand:

The liches or corrupted beings who have a higher tier, trying to claim their right of balance to overcome the mentioned ward, have a right to, and will try to roleplay in a way that they can enforce their own conception of magic. This may be seen as poor roleplay, but is just a result of imbalance in the lore and concept itself.

The whole play with imbalance, backdooring and general tierwhoring might just be what attracts the goons towards magic, in a similar way pvp does.

Magic sparks controversy, how should tiers be handled, what is balanced, and what not.
It doesn't get better than the the unstoppable force which meets the immovable object, they simply have to surrender, but who would...
So! There is a solution for this grumpy playerbase of clerics and corrupted. I'd suggest the holy wards created by clerics should be parkour segments, any corrupted being who could finish it would be granted access. Easy isn't it!?
 

 

[Suxals 529]

Reading all these posts i find something that from my point of view is wrong with the system, the magics that are mostly used for combat are evocations, which can be learned without a teacher if you make a self-teach application, then it makes it logical that they are the most powergamed magics, but what do you expect when the most of the users of those magics didnt have a teacher to show them how to use it properly in roleplay? Maybe the self-teach applications should be removed or either make that to learn it by your own means you need to be a T3 mage in other evocation or T5 in other magic of different subtype, so they are already used to the concept of magic and dont start by the wrong path.

 

Regarding archons and other end-game... in my personal experience they are very experineced and tend to undergame the most of the time, also to get such power they might have done something to get it, right?

[zaezae 1098]

I really think people can just have too many magic. Also with evocations, well duh they're combat boosting since they take away physical combat. 

 

So very 'duh'. 

[D4NNA 284]

1 hour ago, Suxals said:

Reading all these posts i find something that from my point of view is wrong with the system, the magics that are mostly used for combat are evocations, which can be learned without a teacher if you make a self-teach application, then it makes it logical that they are the most powergamed magics, but what do you expect when the most of the users of those magics didnt have a teacher to show them how to use it properly in roleplay? Maybe the self-teach applications should be removed or either make that to learn it by your own means you need to be a T3 mage in other evocation or T5 in other magic of different subtype, so they are already used to the concept of magic and dont start by the wrong path.

 

Regarding archons and other end-game... in my personal experience they are very experineced and tend to undergame the most of the time, also to get such power they might have done something to get it, right?

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From my point of view, choosing an evocation that is not as combat oriented as others (Conjuration) & getting trough the whole process of actually being able to self teach the magic is already quite hard. The solution you offered, removing self teach application would be a lot of work for the magic staff & the teachers making it generally harder to get into magic. It would just evolve into a giant circlejerk where the only way to get proper magic is to lick the butthole of someone who has a TA. I wouldn't want that. 

Rather, the focus should be to settle new magic users on the right path. Maybe a rotation of teachers, or designated magic events for groups of magicians to learn the proper roleplay from each other. The running system is fine, it's just that there are no additions made to improve it.

On your last point I totally agree, it took time and dedication to come to this point for those magic users, why should they not benefit from it.

[Abyssus 487]

the real problem is when am i going to teach my students

 

@Gargled

[Ixli 1472]

2 hours ago, Abyssus said:

the real problem is when am i going to teach my students

 

@Gargled

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TICK TOCK - this is a real problem 

[Luxury 1083]

17 hours ago, Suxals said:

Reading all these posts i find something that from my point of view is wrong with the system, the magics that are mostly used for combat are evocations, which can be learned without a teacher if you make a self-teach application, then it makes it logical that they are the most powergamed magics, but what do you expect when the most of the users of those magics didnt have a teacher to show them how to use it properly in roleplay? Maybe the self-teach applications should be removed or either make that to learn it by your own means you need to be a T3 mage in other evocation or T5 in other magic of different subtype, so they are already used to the concept of magic and dont start by the wrong path.

 

Regarding archons and other end-game... in my personal experience they are very experineced and tend to undergame the most of the time, also to get such power they might have done something to get it, right?

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Create a robust Self Teaching/learning system that is incapable of producing roleplayers who emote magic without understanding it's limits.

 

I do agree here. Perhaps the issue lies with how people are having magic taught to them, not the lore itself.

[Sky 0]

Destroy all magic, tear it all down and rebuild with the pieces.

[Pinsir99 526]

I'm a fan of the idea of removing self-teaching. While this won't solve all the issues, it'll decrease the possibility of more poorly-rping mages popping up, and would decrease the spreading of magic, which is also desperately needed.

[Sky 0]

9 minutes ago, Pinsir99 said:

I'm a fan of the idea of removing self-teaching. While this won't solve all the issues, it'll decrease the possibility of more poorly-rping mages popping up, and would decrease the spreading of magic, which is also desperately needed.

 

Unless it has changed since the old change, self teaching requires that you have knowledge of a magic of the same type, or have previous knowledge in terms of evocation. So when it comes to people poorly role-playing, if it comes from someone who self-taught, then somewhere down the line they were taught terribly by a teacher.