What is wrong with magic?

[Pinsir99 526]

Just now, Sky said:

 

Unless it has changed since the old change, self teaching requires that you have knowledge of a magic of the same type, or have previous knowledge in terms of evocation. So when it comes to people poorly role-playing, if it comes from someone who self-taught, then somewhere down the line they were taught terribly by a teacher. 

 

 

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Oh, I had not realized. I suppose it makes the idea pretty pointless then.

[Sky 0]

2 minutes ago, Pinsir99 said:

Oh, I had not realized. I suppose it makes the idea pretty pointless then.

 

Honestly, right now you can't prove ****. What ****? Well, lets say I taught you fire evocation, and then you **** up terribly, break lore and powergame, however it was the way I showed you how the magic works. It would be a he-said she-said situation where the only actual proof is that you did break lore, not that I taught you terribly. As much as people hate the old magic team, atleast the screenshots of teachings proved to the staff if it was due to teaching negligence or someone clearly not understanding the lore.

[rukio 8924]

The only real fun I ever had with magic was my self-taught air evo character who would just blow torches out. Or, I guess technically when my SP used hers to soothe people who were stressed or other similar things. Eh, I think it'd be nice to wipe the slate, magic wise. Have it be used for more than just "Oh, you're attacking me, let me cast this spell." and yes, I've been bad about that before, which is why I don't touch magic right now.

 

Edit: Meant to add that I agree it is a power creep. The more power people collect on their mages the more desperate, I think, they are to keep them alive sometimes. Or less willing to die which....in game deaths sometimes stem into OOC toxicity, not sure why. 

[Its_Just_Leap 399]

I feel as though this is more of a problem with shitty players that are roleplaying the magics to only be weapons. Almost all magics have the capabilities to be used in normal RP situations. I know that I, and a few others in my friend groups aren't just sitting around waiting for someone to attack me so I can throw an evocated spike through their skull. . .  I mean I will, but it's like maybe 35% of my magic roleplay. What we need to do in order to remove shitty magic roleplayers is:

1. Have a more strict teaching system/self teaching system where the teachers/OOC Overseers are held accountable for their actions when they teach their students.

2. Have the magic/lore team be more upfront about the daily uses of magic other than using them as a simple replacement for a sword and shield. I don't know how many times Ethel did simple household magic and people thought I was a ******* genious, I mean are you kidding me IT'S A FREE MAGIC!!!!!

3. This is more of a duty on everyone's part, but we need to have people be more serious about magic blacklists. If you feel like someone isn't doing their magic properlly then screenshot it, and afterwards send it to the magic team. Keep magic out of bad roleplayer's hands

4. Force people to roleplay the effects of using voidal magics! I don't know how many times I've fought another mage, afterwards asked them how many magics they have, they say they have an absurd ammount, but are somehow still able to ******* stand in full platemale armor, and hoist their sword around! News Flash!: THE MORE VOIDAL MAGICS YOU HAVE THE MORE YOUR BODY IS PROGRESSIVELY WEAKER DUE TO YOUR CONTINUOUS CONNECTIONS TO THE VOID!
 

The OP also said to remove endgames for mages, or rather suggested it. I would argue not to, and not because I have endgame characters. These endgames give people goals to strive for when they have their mages. Taking these things away in my opinion would be a detriment, and lead to magic being nothing special. Which I believe it should be.

[Temp 2006]

Magic should be the alternative to the blade or the bow, not a way of life or a character defining aspect. Unfortunately, magic is a means of achieving a power fantasy and it has far exceeded the blade or bow, nearly making them obsolete. Some folks restrain themselves and provide solid enjoyable RP but others like to fall back upon the general ignorance of magic as a means of being untouchable.

[Its_Just_Leap 399]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Magic should be the alternative to the blade or the bow, not a way of life or a character defining aspect. Unfortunately, magic is a means of achieving a power fantasy and it has far exceeded the blade or bow, nearly making them obsolete. Some folks restrain themselves and provide solid enjoyable RP but others like to fall back upon the general ignorance of magic as a means of being untouchable.

This is completely wrong. Magic is an alternative to the sword and bow, not to go alongside of it. A mages body degrades as they connect to the void making them physically weaker. It's super easy to counter a mage due to one little aspect and that's the fact that they have to connect to the void. Seriously all you have to do is tackle them or attack them in some way and their connection will be broken and they'll be forced to reconnect. Not to mention there being this little neat thing that definitely makes magic 100% obsolete and it's called PVP Default. Magic definitely doesn't turn people into all powerful beings, to say this is almost a complete lie.

[Temp 2006]

28 minutes ago, Leap1Ghosts said:

This is completely wrong. Magic is an alternative to the sword and bow, not to go alongside of it. A mages body degrades as they connect to the void making them physically weaker. It's super easy to counter a mage due to one little aspect and that's the fact that they have to connect to the void. Seriously all you have to do is tackle them or attack them in some way and their connection will be broken and they'll be forced to reconnect. Not to mention there being this little neat thing that definitely makes magic 100% obsolete and it's called PVP Default. Magic definitely doesn't turn people into all powerful beings, to say this is almost a complete lie.

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It's still defender default and folks don't take hits for $20 tips if it forces them from the advantage. Rarely have, rarely will.

[E__V__O 2000]

2 hours ago, Temp said:

It's still defender default and folks don't take hits for $20 tips if it forces them from the advantage. Rarely have, rarely will. 

 

Please don't associate all mages in a group who don't like PvP and or don't rp taking hits in roleplay. 

[ScreamingDingo 20568]

3 hours ago, Evocress said:

 

Please don't associate all mages in a group who don't like PvP and or don't rp taking hits in roleplay. 

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but literally the main problematic rp'ers are mages and a high majority do not actually take hits?

[E__V__O 2000]

33 minutes ago, GrimReaper98 said:

 

but literally the main problematic rp'ers are mages and a high majority do not actually take hits?

 

I take hits all the time and willing to PvP if required. 

 

-shrug-

 

Might be a majority but the minority of us are still here. 

[Man of Respect 5471]

Hey, I'm glad that this topic has sparked some conversations and opinions while also allowing people to form a new way of thinking. But, after reading the problems of self-teaching and the opinions that came out of this, I'll also lay out my opinion regarding self-teaching

 

I personally like self-teaching a lot, specially because they're non-major magics. It allows people to become mages without having to befriend a mage (or anything else) and take their own path without something that meddles far too much in other areas. Most of the magic combat RP I've seen was mostly from veterans and well-known magic users... or older players, I don't know. Therefore, I've not seen shitty roleplay from self-taught people that I am aware of, but this might be because there's no voidal magic within the orcish playerbase.

 

The issue with the removal or making self-teaching more strict is that it promotes magical circlejerks, making a bad situation even worse. But circlejerks have a certain intent. Say, the shamans, druids or paladins for example; its tough for someone to join or leave their playerbase because it requires a decent amount of trust and effort; but it doesn't becomes a class magic where everyone can have it and not roleplay the enrichment it brings. Say, a druid for example, there's a whole religion and faith built around them. If it becomes something as common as voidal magic, no one will roleplay the druidic tasks since the person is not aware of this duty or simply strands away from it since he's not required to do so.

 

Voidal evocations, in the other hand, don't have a large, notable and relevant religion built around them. Maybe the void, but not the specific evocations. Although, even if these magics became more restricted, they'd still be trophy magics, where you have no specific task or law or duty, which opens room for more character flexibility; all it does is to empower a character.

 

To improve magical roleplay, I think it'd be nice if the array of varieties can be shown to a mage. Like rukio said, an individual can use wind to blow out torches, or maybe light a fat paki cactus green; it becomes apart of roleplay, not something that can be acquired "for the lulz" or "look at me im a very powerful mage". Maybe a solution to magic is just to make it clear that it should be used as a last resort if its for combat. I mean, logically, a mage would of course use his magic to protect himself when he's being attacked by someone, but what about when he's not dying?

 

 

[zaezae 1098]

Too many magical slots. End-game magic is too powerful. 

[Ducklingator 795]

when i play my paleknight, a guy stronger than an olog who couldn't be part in a proper fight, and do anything but act grim and distant/assault people the hell of it, people complain about how im a meme who should just play a human instead.

 

when i play my mage who is always anxious about her and her friends' safety and always trains to have the upper hand in combat people complain about how im a powerhungry meme who shouldn't try to be so powerful because that's stupid.

 

hmm.

[Its_Just_Leap 399]

15 hours ago, Temp said:

It's still defender default and folks don't take hits for $20 tips if it forces them from the advantage. Rarely have, rarely will.

And that's where they get to a point where eventually dodging every attack is powergaming and you go speak to a GM about it. Even then Powergaming mages are a rarity from what I've seen. I've seen more mages that UNDERPOWER their magic if anything.

2 hours ago, zaezae said:

Too many magical slots. End-game magic is too powerful. 

Calling end game magic too powerful isn't true. The amount of magic slots isn't a problem either. If everyone was only able to have 2 magics and still be forced to RP the side affects from the void then that would be way to much of a detriment to them combat wise, and make them practically useless. The solution isn't to nerf everything into the ground.

[Corvoo 562]

On 21/01/2018 at 6:20 PM, Abyssus said:

magic lore is fine

 

its just the playerbase that's trash

 

which frankly i don't have a solution for, because the MT compose of said playerbase

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This. This is exactly my thoughts on all of this. 

All this talk of endgames being powercreeps and all this bullshit? I'm not just against getting rid of these things because I play character with one, perhaps that does factor into it, but there's more there. It's detrimental taking things like that away, it really is. That and most of us undergame it all to hell, and should for that matter, at least in terms of combat roleplay. 

In the end, the problem is the magic community playerbase. I don't know what to suggest, but something needs to be done about how shitty the magic community can be to RP with. Be willing to ******* lose a fight, jesus ******* christ people. Remember that we're supposed to be promoting fun for all parties involved. It's simple, really.