[Community Review] Raids

[Archbishop 1784]

1 minute ago, Gladuos said:

As much as people try to say otherwise, I will never consider mineman PVP as roleplay. It's simply not, even if you think nothing is considered OOC (for some reason). It might serve as the lazy, quick solution to concluding a conflict, but no actual real RP is happening when you're clicking each other to death. I consider that laughable.

So you believe 20 people should have a big rp fight battle and it will run smoothly? If so you are deluded. You are also claiming no rp happens as a result of warclaims... if you cannot see what rp is generated by them, then oh my.

2 minutes ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

You don't get to pick and choose.

Neither do you. You cannot argue that capturing people that have popped or d40'd does not make sense in rp but then put a cap on the amount of raiders. Like why would a group or nation ever limit the amount of raiders they send? Surely the objective is to win so they will send any and everybody they have spare?

Don't be a hypocrite.

[ThatGuy_777 220]

Neither a fan of chest malarkey, nor the restrictions and technical brouhaha regarding captures, nor most of these changes to be frank. I'd rather keep the system we already have over this by a million. Even though I am fond of the designated character affiliation and location clarifications, the rest just hurts my head to even read. It entirely favors PvP raids and makes any RP raid seem completely less optimal. Why bother with heists or warclaims when you can just raid them suckers into oblivion? Why do we need an actual battering ram raid item when players should have to RP out that sort of thing with a battering ram of their own design?  How do you remove a button that is actually a metal spike in RP? Please don't implement this, it will just be a detriment to RP more than anything.

[zaezae 1098]

I'm just glad narthok admitted that the attitude of generic raider man is a problem. Because it is. I'd say that if raiders didn't act like assholes then we wouldn't even had raid rules and I don't even care if I sound elitist. But as other's said, the chest thing is really only going to reward being an insufferable barely-literate screecher even more. 

 

Which is a shame because I like losing. I'd like to be kidnapped for dramatic rp by the raiders. 

[Narthok 10416]

4 minutes ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

@Narthok seems like these are the rules YOU want, the collective community not so much. Why even ask for feedback when most of the time you seem to default to telling the feedback givers why they're wrong when they don't support your ideology?

Because I believe the amendments I've submitted are positive and when flaws with them are indicated I've amended them appropriately. If I am confronted with a strong argument that proves why my position is wrong I will amend my position. I'm not just going to cave on something because a few people are yelling about it despite making several errors about the content of the work. 

[Helios_ 288]

Change the raid minumum number, 2 people is pretty damn low as is and it sorta unrealistically sets an ooc number for rp instances. Less rules and less gm involvement means more rp sense to actions done by players.

 

OOC RULES SHOULD NOT DETERMINE WHAT GOES ON IN RP, IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR A 4 MAN GROUP TO LEAVE BEHIND 2 PEOPLE BECAUSE OF MAGIC RAID NUMBER.

[JuliusAakerlund 2402]

Historical arguments for a game such as Minecraft in how you are supposed to keep afloat a series of systems of fairness is nearly always redundant. When you say that siege weapons like siege ladders and rams were used in Raids historically you aren't wrong, yet historically there was hundreds of disadvantages to being a raider or mercenary. Nearly all of which are entirely non existant on LoTC, in real life raiders would be a vast minority and their equipment was not always but nearly always a great deal worse than that of the nation armies. There was an understanding between raiders/waymen/bandits and the state, that if they oversteped certain boundries (like attacking a city) they'd be rooted out. They'd be destroyed and killed and since in real life when you're dead the problem is solved, this allowed states to manage the amount of harassment they got against them on this front.

 

Yet on LoTC none of these systems exists, you have endless lives, endless equipment and all of it is equal if not sometimes even skewed in the favour of raiders. If you warclaim a raider/mercenary group they can just make a new base, freebuild lets it happen with no problems at all. If they uphold honorary PK they can just make new characters and 95% of the time they won't PK. Yet when they kill anyone of stature on the other side they always want them to PK, raiders can focus down specific communities endlessly yet there is no punishment.

 

Then you complain about the people that have no way to go against raiders trying to defend themselves by building walls, which mind you walls were quite literally an invention for that very same purpose. When it comes to your other points there can be arguments made in favour and against, but honestly keep the historical "accuracy" of warfare out of LoTC. If we were historically accurate then warfare would be really ******* boring and you'd need to have logistics divisions, armour divisions, supply trains, vast strategic planning, your state economy would take massive dips. Not to include the thousands of other parts to warfare.

 

@Narthok

 

TL:DR Minecraft is Minecraft not real life.

[Narthok 10416]

1 minute ago, Jaeden said:

 

They pissed on my gate the other day.

 

:ancap:

@Jaeden@zaezaeplease send evidence of this kind of thing to me and I will hand out appropriate punishments. The 'I don't rp, rping is for losers' attitude of many of the current generation of raiders is unacceptable and needs to be resolved. 

[Gladuos 869]

7 minutes ago, HolyTortoise said:

So you believe 20 people should have a big rp fight battle and it will run smoothly? If so you are deluded. You are also claiming no rp happens as a result of warclaims... if you cannot see what rp is generated by them, then oh my.

Nah I don't want there to be big RP fights between more than 10 people, I understand that's not possible. I'm thinking it's better off if combats don't occur outside of warclaims beyond that number because PVP presents more problems (in my experience and to what I want out of LotC) than it solves. To me, combat which results in character development and enjoyment is the roleplay kind. Not mechanical. Warclaims have side-effects in roleplay due to the system allowing tiles to be conquered, and the sheer size involved with them, but it's still just you clicking at each other while the act is happening. No creative writing, or roleplaying there.

[ThatGuy_777 220]

Also, yeah I just parrot Glad and Gallic's sentiments. They put it a whole lot more elegantly.

[Archbishop 1784]

I've seen many people on this thread complaining about raiders not rp'ing, memeing or trolling and yet I've not seen a single ban report on it. Don't complain about it if you are unwilling or just to lazy to get it dealt with.

[Gladuos 869]

1 minute ago, HolyTortoise said:

I've seen many people on this thread complaining about raiders not rp'ing, memeing or trolling and yet I've not seen a single ban report on it. Don't complain about it if you are unwilling or just to lazy to get it dealt with.

Can't ban that which is technically rule-compliant but in any sane person's mind is actually a problem.

[Archbishop 1784]

Just now, Gladuos said:

Can't ban that which is technically rule-compliant but in any sane person's mind is actually a problem.

Trolly rp, meme rp and bad villain rp are all against the rules and should be reported, all I see are dozens of people complaining about this happening but not a single ban report.

[zaezae 1098]

Just now, Narthok said:

@Jaeden@zaezaeplease send evidence of this kind of thing to me and I will hand out appropriate punishments. The 'I don't rp, rping is for losers' attitude of many of the current generation of raiders is unacceptable and needs to be resolved. 

 

I didn't gather evidence because my interaction was watched by a GM who found that unironically pulling an actual sword out of one's actual *******, literally urinating on everything, and insulting me personally was all in-line with LotC's standards and everything's on the up-and-up.

 

I will personally stop caring about raid rules if you can actually correct this kind of behavior. I'm a masochist for shitty RP situations. I like high drama. I want that kind of dynamic RP back. 

[Narthok 10416]

1 minute ago, zaezae said:

 

I didn't gather evidence because my interaction was watched by a GM who found that unironically pulling an actual sword out of one's actual *******, literally urinating on everything, and insulting me personally was all in-line with LotC's standards and everything's on the up-and-up.

 

I will personally stop caring about raid rules if you can actually correct this kind of behavior. I'm a masochist for shitty RP situations. I like high drama. I want that kind of dynamic RP back. 

Do you have the name of the player involved? I will go through hawkeye and if I find the appropriate rp they will be punished accordingly

 

3 minutes ago, Gladuos said:

Can't ban that which is technically rule-compliant but in any sane person's mind is actually a problem.

You can report it and I will ban it.

2 minutes ago, HolyTortoise said:

Trolly rp, meme rp and bad villain rp are all against the rules and should be reported, all I see are dozens of people complaining about this happening but not a single ban report.

yes please report

[Gladuos 869]

1 minute ago, HolyTortoise said:

Trolly rp, meme rp and bad villain rp are all against the rules and should be reported, all I see are dozens of people complaining about this happening but not a single ban report.

I dunno maybe because it's an incredibly long process that's a huge pain in the ass to argue why people should be banned when you'd rather just forget about it and move on with your life. It's so commonplace that you'd be spending a LOT of time filling out ban reports and debating on them for every single memey PVP goon that comes to raid weekly. It's better if the rules are just structured to not encourage that.