Trouble in Toontown

[Unwillingly 18132]

yeah nah if ur getting bandited, all it takes is a little bit of cooperation and genuine effort put into ur emotes instead of immediately whining w/o even trying to play ur part, n the experience will be 100x more enjoyable

the responsibility of having a fun RP bandit experience falls on both parties and this rule generally applies to any RP encounter on the server 

[squakhawk 14041]

4 minutes ago, Unwillingly said:

yeah nah if ur getting bandited, all it takes is a little bit of cooperation and genuine effort put into ur emotes instead of immediately whining w/o even trying to play ur part, n the experience will be 100x more enjoyable

the responsibility of having a fun RP bandit experience falls on both parties and this rule generally applies to any RP encounter on the server 

this

[Priceflash 832]

I like how you showed how you are actually doing good villainy RP and  people in the thread are still insulting you for no reason, and basically just dragging "bandits" for no reason as well, further propagating the negative mindset.

 

I think this is somewhat related to the Tavern RP complex I address in my treastise on conflict and roleplay (check my profile for it). A subset of LoTC players are not interested in conflict RP, minecraft mechanics as roleplay, or anything that interrupts their idyllic fantasy -- despite being constant advocates of "roleplay" they are the ones inhibiting most dynamic RP on the server. 

 

I also think your problem with GM enforcement is a clear but unspoken issue on the server. I myself have been the victim of it -- someone powergamed me and used 5-6 actions in a paragraph long emote and the GM started threatening me even though I'm the one who modreq'd. A lot of users have pocket GMs who will come to their rescue, or they're in discord with them, and they will enforce rules more on certain players than others (not even just them being biased in favor of one of the players, oftentimes they are biased against certain players based on preconceived notions). 

 

Lack of GM due diligence is also an issue -- they will often make decisions without actually looking into anything beyond face value. This leads to negative player relations is not good for the health of the server. I've had plenty of pleasant experiences with GMs but for every positive one, there was a negative one for sure. I don't know exactly what GM training looks like, but I feel like they probably focus more on the technical training aspect of how to do modreqs, commands, etc rather than training them how to appropriately treat members of the community, and how to foster an environment that is fun for all. Too many GMs are quick to dish out a punishment or make a judgement call without even talking to both parties.  And to be clear I'm not trying to insult anyone or anything, I'm just being honest. 

 

It's interesting how GMs are audited on command usage and pex abuse related issues etc but I'm curious if anyone is actually investigating the enforcement actions of the GMs, and how they handle modreqs. I don't think there  needs to be more oversight as in GMs getting randomly checked or anything, but I think if there was an appeals process or something to get disputes over enforcement actions rectified the server would be a much MUCH better place. Even if nothing could be done retroactively like in the case of banditing or pvp or whatever, I think it'd be useful to have GMs checked for what they're doing -- and players at the end of bad enforcement actions would likely feel better, increasing player / staff relations. 

 

I think even if bandits were just minas and die clones, that is still creating roleplay regardless of if they killed every person they see. It creates an issue for nations and guilds to address, something greater than just a brief interaction. But again, many users on the server are not interested in dynamic roleplay, conflict, or anything that would create a serverwide roleplay opportunity as they are more concerned with their isolated universes. I think that's a perfectly fine way to play and think, but it shouldn't impact people trying to actually generate roleplay through conflict -- there has to be a better solution than what we have now.

[Liv 485]

Bandit roleplay is bad if you make bandit roleplay bad. Be a **** be treated as a ****. Be nice and friendly expect it in return. Create enjoyable roleplay get enjoyable roleplay. ez ez

[MailC3p 2409]

i've rarely actually been bandited, the one time i can vividly remember was when i  was caught on the roads of arcas by myself when i got attacked by 3 bandits, the rp was alright and the ooc was terrible as  i kept tabbing out to do something so they thought i was just stalling for a meta rally (which  is sadly a stereotype against me  as i play orenian characters) in  the end when pvp  was called and they all collapsed ontop of me and killed  me,  afterwards i DMed one to ask for  a special  item i had on my persona that was only really valuable  to me and no one  else and they  met up with me at CT to give  it back, which  was real nice, on the other hand it is really easy to avoid being bandited, i was running on the roads from Providence to Eastfleet just a few  days back and WWWDotfreesmiley appeared  in my render distance  and he  was in his bandit skin so  i  assumed if i got close enough to him he would bandit me so i just ran away... like... theres  no  speed  on the roads anymore, you don't have to worry about them pulling some BS to catch up to you. anyways i do try  to keep my OOC toxicity from  a minimum.

[Cheezzy_Garlik 540]

1 hour ago, Lefty said:

Hi Hanrahan,

As a player who has been around for just as long as you (longer in fact) and has witnessed you as a supposed member of "this community", I would just like to say that you have never, nor will ever, offer anything positive to any communities on LOTC, especially with comments such as that which are toxic, offensive and just plain rude. You should reconsider how you portray yourself online, referring to people as "cancer" reflects poorly upon you and your group (which I assume is Oren). Especially when said group is one of the most frowned upon and disliked communities on LOTC. So there is no need to give them an even worse name. This is a game, and everyone is here to have fun. I can see why you wouldn't like bandits, as they interrupt your 18th century colonial roleplay and heavy RP debates and court cases, but not everyone likes to play a fantasy minecraft server to discuss made up legislation. Some people like to provide villainous roleplay, and from my interaction with Mickaelhz groups, they have provided quality villainy roleplay. Far better than the villainous roleplay of those who came before them, even the villainous roleplay that I provided as a young teen on the server many years ago.

I hope you take a step back, and realize that you don't need to be so aggressive online, and take a long hard look at yourself and hopefully change your attitude for the better.

Thanks,
Lefty

+1, best moderator...though you are irish but everyone has their flaws 🙂

 

[ferdaboy 3488]

people literally cant cope with the fact that ur character cant always roleplay whats best for them

 

people complaining above are the ones that get too wrapped up in their roleplay to the point where they become attached and make every attack on their character personal

[ronin_champloo 5951]

 

day 2 of my ban, my addiction of lotc is slowly going away- but thats a bad thing, i need to grind 24/7 to pay off my mortgage in haense. please save me from brazil

[Cheezzy_Garlik 540]

2 minutes ago, Spoons said:

 

day 2 of my ban, my addiction of lotc is slowly going away- but thats a bad thing, i need to grind 24/7 to pay off my mortgage in haense. please save me from brazil

comrade, it appears that we are both in these forsaken foreign lands, let us escape together. on the wings...of an angel, and angel named mickaelhz...though he is belgium but all angels are perfect so ill let it slide.

 

[Sham404 518]

Over nine years ago I played on some Minecraft roleplay servers that are long dead. A few - very few - people on here recall those servers, and even fewer remember me in particular from them. Some are among the staff of LOTC. Those of you who took the time to check out my profile over the last few weeks might have noticed after a few failed applications some nine years ago, I dropped off the face of minecraft earth. It was around that time I originally stopped playing the game, full stop, not just RP. Since returning, I have been a very...vocal member of this community, that much is undeniable. Though I like to think it hasnt just been negative (anyone who looks at the wiki recently can see evidence of my hard work. And I have helped many with questions about vortex). I certainly made some errors in the language I have used, and im sure people will continue to criticise the time I insulted people for being unable to follow a guide. In return I have been accused of various things. Staff simp, shill, whiteknight for nick or tech or staff in general, people have accused me of being an alt, others claiming i am a banned player using an unbanned account, others making blatantly false claims such as me being an alpha tester for vortex, because thats the only way I would defend it. When responding to these insults to refute the lies and misinformation being spread, I get further insults and ridicule. Almost exclusively, this stain upon my character has come from a specific clique in the server community, a clique closely associated with the Oren playerbase. Hell, I even received OOC criticism for my character, a village born, peasant boy, using the nickname 'Witchslayer' because he killed a witch, someone no one from his home could ever conceive of doing. 

 

Obviously, that isnt the case in every example, but it does say much to me that the same players who are so hypercritical of anyone that speaks out against misinformation, or takes offence to being insulted so baselessly, or who tries to defend themselves from claims like this, are in many cases the same players, or closely associated with players, who immediately run to the moderation team for a glass of milk and a pat on the head as soon as someone 'targets' them. The same players who will gladly insult and abuse players from other nations, but as soon as they are stung, they scream for mutes and bans and the like. And they get them, because the staff they go to are part of the same clique and look after their own.

 

So far, it is clear to me that there is a tumourous growth deep within the playerbase. It spreads from the lowest echelons of the community to various levels of the staff. Its evident in cases like this, with clear bias from moderators in favour of the nations they belong to. Its clear with players blatantly breaking the rules to benefit themselves, but hounding anyone who might accidentally or unknowingly break the rules to ensure the harshest punishment is doled out. Its clear with expansive numbers of staff who are barely taken seriously by the playerbase because their behaviour has destroyed any foundation of trust that might exist outside of the relationship they have with their group of friends.

 

---

 

I didnt come back to RP on minecraft because I want to sit in a tavern and flirt with elfen tavern wenches, or run around and wait for events. I didnt come back because I want to hoard money. I came back to try and play on LOTC because I took it for a serious RP server. There are few servers of the same size and quality, of the same type, and theme, that exist these days, and the idea that people roleplaying as criminals in a serious, medieval inspired roleplay environment is somehow detrimental to roleplay astounds me. You dont always get to win. Im sure this is something made clear to anyone familiar with any level of RP, whether thats from TTRPGs, or IRCRP, or forum RP, or LARPing, or any other medium. You are not the main character. You are not the protagonist. Prepare to lose sometimes.

 

All kinds of RP are valid as long as they are within the rules, and you cant have it all ways. If you refuse to put effort into making sure your character is safe - hiring mercenaries, making sure your nation guards are keeping the roads safe, or carrying weapons yourself - then you have no grounds to complain if criminals attack you. This is tied closely to immersion. No-risk no-fee no-gain RP is not immersive. It might be fun for some people, but this server is not for some people. Its for everyone who wants to RP.

 

If you refuse to engage in meaningful RP with bandit RP, then you cant complain that you arent getting good RP out of the encounter. Its that simple. The evidence in this post clearly shows how people dont even want to engage in roleplay outside of the bare minimum - likely the same people who complain that plugins like vortex prevent them from roleplaying.

 

DRAMA is the operative word of Improv, of acting, of roleplay. Bandit roleplay not only foments drama in the moment, it foments it in the future - Both in trying to avoid being bandited again, and in trying to deal with the bandits for good. 

 

Some people seem to have this idea that there are two camps in the server. Those who 'want to RP' - which in their eyes means slice of life RP, sitting in a tavern or in their house, chatting to friends, going to events when they happen and little else of note, with the only major disagreement coming in the form of zero risk conflicts. Then those who 'dont want to rp' - which in their eyes includes anyone who wants to RP a villain, or wants mechanics and roleplay to mesh together rather than be separate. This is not conducive to good rp, or a positive experience, or a healthy community. I like to think the group of people who think like this are few and far between, but more and more evidence indicates to me that there is at least one large group of them on the server, of not multiple. More evidence of a tumour, thriving within LOTC and protected by staff who look after their own before they look after the server.

 

And all of this is besides the fact that our friendly bandits went out of their ways to avoid causing too much difficulty or upset, just to be insulted and banned. It comes as no surprise to me that Oren affiliated Mods are making decisions blatantly in favour of Oren, regardless of the context of the situation.

[Shmeepicus 4215]

1 hour ago, Lefty said:

Hi Hanrahan,

As a player who has been around for just as long as you (longer in fact) and has witnessed you as a supposed member of "this community", I would just like to say that you have never, nor will ever, offer anything positive to any communities on LOTC, especially with comments such as that which are toxic, offensive and just plain rude. You should reconsider how you portray yourself online, referring to people as "cancer" reflects poorly upon you and your group (which I assume is Oren). Especially when said group is one of the most frowned upon and disliked communities on LOTC. So there is no need to give them an even worse name. This is a game, and everyone is here to have fun. I can see why you wouldn't like bandits, as they interrupt your 18th century colonial roleplay and heavy RP debates and court cases, but not everyone likes to play a fantasy minecraft server to discuss made up legislation. Some people like to provide villainous roleplay, and from my interaction with Mickaelhz groups, they have provided quality villainy roleplay. Far better than the villainous roleplay of those who came before them, even the villainous roleplay that I provided as a young teen on the server many years ago.

I hope you take a step back, and realize that you don't need to be so aggressive online, and take a long hard look at yourself and hopefully change your attitude for the better.

Thanks,
Lefty

 

God damn Lefty, you didn't have to kill him.

 

[audyush 747]

I'm definitely not the most qualified to provide my own input here, but I will anyways.

 

I've only been on the server since late June but that's long enough for me to have at least a general idea of the stereotypes, judgements, and opinions made against the Bandit RP community, and enough time for me to form my own. I personally mainly RP in Oren about ninety-five percent of the time, so I know there are lots of people within that group who are entirely against Villainy and Banditry RP. I, again this is just my personal opinion, do not agree with this in the slightest. Sure, there are lots of poor Villainy and Banditry RPers, but you could say the same about every other group big or small on LotC.

 

I think this all somewhat points to the debate on Conflict RP, so I will base my thoughts around that idea. I think Conflict RP is a crucial part to character development and story-telling as a whole. You can not have a good story without some sort of conflict, and I will forever stand by that. I know others may disagree that Conflict RP is crucial to their stories, and that's fine of course, but in the end we are all playing character in a constantly moving world of RP and there is nothing you can do to have others revolve around your character. There is no main character. There is no Lord of the craft. And with that, no character is truly good and no character is truly evil. This is not a story with a beginning, rising action, climax, falling action, and finally a resolution that is set in place from the beginning. The story of LotC as a whole is constantly moving, never revolving around a single person, and never truly having an end. 

 

People can judge and form opinions about the community behind Villainy and Banditry RP, but in the end this type of RP is just another niche for a specific group of people- just like Slice of Life RP, Mafia RP, "Hippie" RP, Government RP, Guild/DnD RP, and countless other groups. Villainy RP will forever be around in one way or another as long as there are players who want and are willing to be a part of that type of RP. 

 

----

That is all I have to say.  Thank you for reading if you did, and sorry if it's just a bunch of rambling or repetitiveness- I just wanted to put my thoughts out there. Have a nice day, and remember to be respectful if you chose to comment under this post, they just want to form a respectful and meaningful conversation! 

[Qaz_The_Great 1394]

I am of the opinion that banditry roleplay is essential for grounding players in a MEDIEVAL FANTASY roleplay. Quality Highwayman Roleplay, the kind which Mick and his group provide, offer players a good opportunity to DEVELOP their characters and maybe even learn a thing or two on the way. Bandits, no matter how you put it, are bandits for a reason! I am sure if you provide roleplay you can learn and UNDERSTAND the other CHARACTER who you're interacting with; at the end of the day all characters are played by another HUMAN.

 

Also if you were wondering, yes Micks group is a Roleplay based group with their own ideology, qualities, and goals; not just a band of OOC Goons running around with no real qualities.

 

 

 

[Shmeepicus 4215]

2 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

I am of the opinion that banditry roleplay is essential for grounding players in a MEDIEVAL FANTASY roleplay. Quality Highwayman Roleplay, the kind which Mick and his group provide, offer players a good opportunity to DEVELOP their characters and maybe even learn a thing or two on the way. Bandits, no matter how you put it, are bandits for a reason! I am sure if you provide roleplay you can learn and UNDERSTAND the other CHARACTER who you're interacting with; at the end of the day all characters are played by another HUMAN.

 

Also if you were wondering, yes Micks group is a Roleplay based group with their own ideology, qualities, and goals; not just a band of OOC Goons running around with no real qualities.

 

 

 

 

Literally this.

[Mickaelhz 4300]

9 minutes ago, Cheezzy_Garlik said:

+1 definitely dude, i had to read that twice just because of how right you were, i 110% agree with that, thank you for saying that! you have a great day as well.

This is an incredibly mean thing to say, nobody here has tried starting a fight, mick is only defending his group, which i am apart of. and you saying this is not only an insult to me but is an insult to mick, who took time out of his life to make your a bit easier and to help you see things from his perspective, yet you still want to sit behind your computer and type out rude commetns because u think that they deserve it, you have no right to say that and no need to do it either. Like do you get some sense of euphoria when you try to beat people when their down, what sort of sick twisted cess pit did you crawl into to find the need to say something like this. mods idc if this gets reported but i have sat here and watched a good aquantance of mine get insulted over and over again, and i hit my breaking oint so go ahead and give me a forum infraction or whatever you "feel" is necissary. But what this guy just said makes me sick.

Sickening. i know right. sickening.