The King Of The Moon 5124 Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2022 The ‘Blessed’ Children of Ixris Ra’Liivengor Rutaka za’ra’Rokar Therak Origin Spoiler Known by many names; ‘ra’liivengor’ or - ‘the blessed’ - by inferi, which recognise their craven forms as an allusion to their own, ‘cursed children’ and ‘fiends’ by many of descendant-kind, or more recently ‘devils’ as the majority of the modern afflicted have chosen to style themselves. An appropriate yet intentionally distinct term from ‘demon’, as they are often mislabelled. Whilst there is no true correct label for these creatures, devil is what will be used for the remainder of this piece for its simplicity. The first known devils came to be as a product of the Zar’rokul’s final Bane; the Curse of Infernal Mutation (“zevirlat thaznitnak”), a spell gifted to the Naztherak of yore that had pledged a portion of their soul to the greater infernals: Velkuzat, Drazhana, Kiiztria, Kholidav and Zathairn respectively. When marked upon a woman, the curse malformed her offspring to appear demonic, paying cruel homage to the zar’rokul and other inhabitants of Moz Strimoza. This first generation born of the plight became known to many as ‘cursed children’, shunned by most civilised peoples of Atlas and forced to wander an unforgiving world, typically hunted and mistaken for the very demons which mutated them. Some accepted their position and sank into the dark arts, whilst others attempted to reject it; hoping to someday prove themselves worthy of respectable society. The majority cloistered themselves into obscurity, settling into lives of solitude as hermits, away from the mob. Their existence was not dependent on the practices of warlocks in their plane, and so when naztherak fell into obscurity in the wake of the Voidal Event prerequisite to the invasion of Arcas, the devils remained. The origin of these malformed lines begins and ends there in the minds of most descendants, though beyond the smouldering borders of the High Hells lies a more nefarious truth. Whilst the souls of devils are whole and descendant, inheriting the same curses and blessings as the races of their ancestry, a remnant of the parental mark still stains their soul. In death the mortal souls of devils are obliterated. Whilst a naztherak may be twisted into an inferis and injected into the infernal climb in their afterlife, devils are guaranteed no such continuity. The whole, maleus-rich souls of devils gathered by the zar’rokul and their agents are offered directly to Ixris, serving as a steady tribute to he who sits atop the infernal climb who consumes the souls upon arrival. Undoing them for eternity. This is a fate which can be gleaned by naztherak or the ponderings of mysticism, as well as a mark which can be uncovered and understood by slotted seers of Vaasek. This fate can only be prevented by undeath, should the devil be resurrected in transit through the soulstream (a journey which takes four years as understood in passage of Aos and Eos time) or by seeking salvation from another cause before their demise. Should a devil become themselves warped by practising naztherak or being transformed into a demon prematurely, their continued existence is guaranteed as an inferis. Alternatively, a devil might have Ixris’ stain cleaned or circumvented from their soul by answering the call of another god: devils which become templars, druids, shamans, two-slot seers or another variant of deity mage in life, they will be spared their consumption and instead by snatched into their appropriate afterlife by the divines that would otherwise claim them. These guarantees are forfeit should a devil be disconnected from their affiliated deity before their demise, in which case Ixris’ mark would return. This is known to make staunchly loyal servants of devils that understand their fate, often obeying their chosen deity’s words to the letter in favour of the horrible alternative that would await them in death. This is also true of devils who become undead and are later slain, which are condemned to Ebrietaes as with all others that have tried to cheat Aeriel’s constructs. Creation A devil can only be born as such. That is to say, pre-existing characters can never be turned into devils. It is not a ‘change’ but an origin, determined before the character’s birth and tracked by a feat application (FA). CreationThe historically understood origin of these cursed descendants, wrought by a mark inflicted onto the parent-to-be of a devil by a false prince or greater inferis (ST event characters). The skin colour of those borne of said curse will always reflect the malflame colour of the naztherak or inferis that administered it. -In the magical creation of a devil, the naztherak or event character responsible must be listed as ‘teacher’ in the devil’s FA, ratified by a comment from the naztherak linking their MA or an ST ratifying their consent respectively. -This can only be achieved in accordance with any prerequisites specified in naztherak lore or other hypothetical pieces that add this ability. In the event that naztherak (or other) is shelved as a player magic, or rewritten without the ability to create devils specified, magical creation of new devils becomes impossible. Regardless of creation, all devils inherit the curses and blessings of their closest descendant ancestors with the sole exception of being denied an afterlife in the Seven Skies irrespective of human ancestry. In this regard a devil born to elfish parents will inherit long lives, pointed ears and limited fertility, whilst orcish devils will inherit tusks, bulky frames and short tempers. -For ease of tracking, a devil must be validated by a feat application which lists the source of their curse (cursed parents, naztherak or ST event characters under ‘teacher’) as well as their underlying race. -Devils are subject to the same boons and banes as other members of their underlying descendant race, as well as the boons and banes of mixed couplings, as detailed in racial lore. -Devils cannot be born to non-descendant ancestors such as Kharajyr, Wonks or Hou-zi. -The feat app for the character must be made before they are playable (before age 5). One cannot create an app for a character older than age five. A Blemished Body Whilst aesthetically demonic, devils remain functionally identical to their genetic race; those bearing Ixris’ curse are not truly infernal beings. They do not possess any of the boons or banes of inferi. Their internal physiology remaining unchanged, devils can and should be categorised as normal descendants, differing only in their mutated exteriors as a consequence of malefic meddling. When created through magical tampering, usually naztherak, their skin is forever marked in the colour of their maker’s malflame. Atop this, the cursed lineages of devils are also subject to a variety of unsightly mutations. All devils inherit no less than three of these visible afflictions. Devlish mutations are as follows: -forked tongues -slitted, goatlike, small, large, or entirely absent pupils -coloured or translucent eyeballs -serpentine tails -scaly, snake-like skin which sheds periodically -translucent skin -hair and nails which bleed when cut, alopecia, a lack nails of nails or nails which grow black and pointed -webbed digits -horns of keratin protruding from the head. It is possible for them to connect in the middle, resembling a halo -keratin spikes which jut from the collarbones, shoulders, elbows or knees (or all of the above) -feathers jutting from anywhere on the body -goat, bat, snake or pig-like facial structures and nasal shapes -cloven hooves of keratin in place of feet -pointed, fang-like canines In the rarest of circumstances, some devils have been known to inherit functional wings of either angelic or bat-like shape. So scarce in number, most will go their whole life without witnessing a flying devil. This mutation is strictly reserved for ST event characters. The metaphysical aspects of devils are for the mostpart identical to other descendants. They have ordinary levels of lifeforce and mana, though as a byproduct of their magical origin devils possess marginally altered blood: running black and colourless, devil-blood is of equal genus value to high elves. -All devils have skin tones reminiscent of the malflame colour which cursed their nearest descendant ancestor. -Devilish mutations cannot be used to gain combat advantage beyond what could reasonably (and impractically) be achieved by the likes of horns, pointed nails and so on. -Devils are no more or less resistant to bodily harm, disease or alchemic mutation than other descendants. - Devils cannot use alchemy to hide their devlish mutations. -The mutations a devil is born with are a part of their soul blueprint. -Tawkin klones of devils will always regrow the same mutations as the original unless altered to do otherwise with implemented lore. A Stained Soul Contrary to popular belief, devils are not infernal creatures. They are mortal beings, with full and almost completely ordinary souls that permit them the same mental capacity, morality and magical potency as members of any other descendant race. The sole characteristic that makes devils unique amongst others is the diminutive blemish on their spirit that marks them as claimed by Ixris. Whilst easily suppressed by deific connections in life, or circumvented by undeath, the same fate awaits all devils should this stain on the soul be left unchecked. In death, where a devil has not bonded with a patron to save them, the whole - untarnished - soul of a devil is ferried directly to the High Hells where it is always offered to Ixris himself by whichever zar’rokul was responsible for the pact that caused a devil’s creation. It takes approximately four worldly years - one OOC month - for this forced pilgrimage to reach its conclusion, where the soul is devoured by Ixris and its energies added to his titanic reserves of maleus at the top of the infernal climb. Whilst details specific to Ixris himself and the zar’rokulka’s relationship to him remains obscure without ST approval it is possible for naztherak, mystics and slotted seers of Vaasek to bear witness to this mark on the soul of a devil not under another deity’s protection. Such always allows said magi to glean vague understanding of the fate that awaits them: obliteration. A fact devils who themselves practise the aforementioned arts become inherently aware of, along with the mechanics of divine protection and unholy loopholes they might be able to exploit to avoid this fate. From the moment of a devil’s death, a four year countdown begins until their complete obliteration. In this interim period they could be raised again in undeath by all the usual means of necromancy, mysticism, phantom-kind and so on. The dead character could also be communed with via seance, as detailed in the aforementioned arts and vivification. If not resurrected through valid means within a month after their death, however, the devil is irreversibly annihilated. Fodder for the infernal climb, without thought or emotion; never again capable of being returned or communed with in undeath. Ixris’ unsuppressed mark is not significant enough to affect devils in life in any meaningful ways, with one important exception. Though they possess no inherent understanding of it, marked devils are capable of learning Ilzakarn: the tongue of Moz Strimoza first contrived by Ixris himself. This would require instruction from one already fluent in such hell-speak, being themselves either an inferis, naztherak, former-naztherak or a devil who has already mastered the language. A devil’s ability to speak Ilzakarn (if not a current or former naztherak) is tied directly to the stain on their soul which renders them property of Ixris in death. That is to say, were a devil to learn Ilzakarn in their youth and later become a templar, druid, shaman and so on, they would forget how to understand, speak, read and write it in the instant a connection is formed with the respective aengul, daemon or spirit behind their magic. Such knowledge could only be recovered with the severance of said devil’s deific connection. -The one OOC month countdown to the annihilation of a devil’s soul begins at the exact date and time a devil is killed. If they are not revived within this time period, the character is irrecoverably consumed by Ixris, after which they can never be raised as undead, summoned as zar’ei, contacted via seance et cetera. -This only applies to ‘PK’ deaths, which devils are beholden to in the same capacity as any other character, also factoring in the death clauses and revival mechanics of pieces like Tawkin and Animii Crafting, which devils are not excluded from using. -If a devil dies whilst maintaining a connection with a deity whose followers are given a designated afterlife (Star’gush Stroh, the Eternal Forest, an Observer for Vaasek, Naztherak-turned-inferi et cetera) then they will be spared annihilation at the hands of Ixris. -Knowledge of Ilzakarn is not inherent and must be taught by an already valid speaker through prolonged roleplay and exposure to the language. This must be tracked by a comment on the devil’s app, itself linking to the source of their knowledge (an already confirmed fluent devil’s FA, a current or former naztherak’s MA or an inferis’ CA). -Devils are not inherently aware of Ixris' mark on their soul, and can only be made aware through roleplay with the aforementioned magics. Similarly, the exact nature of Ixris and his machinations cannot be unveiled by the aforementioned magics without ST approval. Otherwise, said practitioners are only given a vague appreciation that the devil's soul is doomed to be annihilated in the Hells without divine intervention or the assurances of undeath. -Ixris' mark cannot be permanently removed until the devil in question has died (PK) either with an active deific connection or after being raised in undeath. The likes of mysticism's unbound fates and other spells intended to heal or cleanse the soul may suppress this metaphysical stain for up to a narrative year (one OOC week) but it will always come back. -Devils are not capable of being connected as Paladins, though may still practice all other deific magics as normal (Seer, Druidism, Shamanism, Templarism, Naztherak, etc). Purpose Spoiler The intent of this piece is to breathe new life into an older work of mine: The piece in question was hastily written under the scrutiny of loregames shelving, with the intent of helping players behind these 'cursed children' keep ahold of characters that members of the lore team at the time wished to take away from them. In that regard it has served its purpose, and I am happy to see many of those characters still played today. The lore as it stands is not without its faults, though. Whilst this new piece hopes to address much of the vagueness in the current lore, as well as importantly offer a solution to tracking in the form of feat applications (that were in their infancy when the last piece was submitted), the main ambition of this rewrite is to give 'devils' a narrative purpose. With Ixris' continued use as an event character under [redacted] since my departure from the ST, it is my hope to equip the team with an exploitable backstory which may be utilised to further player interaction with the character at their discretion. Additionally, the mention of 'winged devils' as an ST-locked type of character is designed to give event staff more broadly a new archetype to explore and deploy out in the world. Most importantly though this piece hopes to equip cursed child RPers with a defined cause and purpose - a bleak fate to either nihilistically embrace or overcome - with solutions and interactions that I believe will urge them into more compelling narratives and explorations of polarity; the 'good' and 'evil' routes all fiends will inevetably be driven to walk, should they seek an escape from the obliteration that awaits them in death. Lastly, I intend for this piece to give more purpose to Ilzakarn. A language first fleshed out by Zarsies, which he and I have worked on for the better part of three years now which in its current form is criminally underused, due in no small part to a redline in Naztherak lore limiting who can currently speak the language to inferi, current and past naztherak. Whilst I respect the want for exclusivity and tracking to an esoteric language, and have not personally suffered from this redline (my own devil character already being a valid speaker due to his past involvement with the magic), the intentional scarcity of played warlocks and demons has almost rendered the language obsolete in real terms of RP usage. Giving cursed children the opportunity to learn such with accountability (and appropriately forget such should their magical alignment bring them into conflict with Ilzakarn's main users) is intended as a middle path to hopefully democratise the language and encourage the myraid of interesting RP that it tends to evoke, whilst still respecting the level of obscurity a demonic tongue demands. Art credit: ArtStation - HE XIAOSONG 36 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigBubbles 691 Share Posted November 8, 2022 yes 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBox 3211 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Bit of odd timing considering the Naztherak rewrite in progress 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of The Moon 5124 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 hour ago, BobBox said: Bit of odd timing considering the Naztherak rewrite in progress I am not privy to the progress of the Naztherak rewrite, though given the amount of time it's been being worked on I assumed it was still a way off. Regardless, this piece doesn't touch or change anything in Naztherak lore and I've kept it intentionally ambiguous as to what extent the two concepts touch at all so as to fit with whatever you intend. As with the initial piece that this is a rewrite of, standalone lore that is future-proofed against potential shelfing and rewrites of Naztherak is important, lest we have a repeat of loregames where a handful of players nearly lost their characters outright 'by association' despite seeing no real change being made to their RP when the magic was removed. This piece is far more relevant to said players and the worldlore surrounding Ixris than I can imagine it ever would be to Naztherak. I do hope it doesn't cause any unforseen knock-on issues for your rewrite though. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller 2201 Share Posted November 8, 2022 babe wake up mordu lore dropped 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukio 8910 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Ayo nice and based Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindle 651 Share Posted November 8, 2022 You've been on an absolute roll! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panashea 2644 Share Posted November 8, 2022 While I think giving characters unique origins can prove to carve interesting stories, I don't think this is a good way to go about it. Parts of it feel written without acknowledging the clauses of lore pieces set before it, and it doesn't really add up. Ixris is an impossibly evil and powerful creature yet his mark can't be seen by other Aengudaemons, Spirits, Aspects, or even other manipulators of lifeforce and the soulstream like necromancers. In the case of the first group, the tenants of afterlives revoke access for more mundane reasons, and require the user to either drop practices entirely, or have themselves permanently barred from experiencing that kind of roleplay when they become CAs and the like. The Stargush'Stroh is the easiest example, as dishonorable people are barred from it. Those marked by Ixris should not remain in the afterlives of deities, when other players suffer for more for less. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: With Ixris' continued use as an event character under [redacted] since my departure from the ST, it is my hope to equip the team with an exploitable backstory which may be utilised to further player interaction with the character at their discretion. Additionally, the mention of 'winged devils' as an ST-locked type of character is designed to give event staff more broadly a new archetype to explore and deploy out in the world. Very little of this submission has anything to do with ST-locked creatures, as something like winged devils has been feasible before this. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: In death the mortal souls of devils are obliterated. Whilst a naztherak may be twisted into an inferis and injected into the infernal climb in their afterlife, devils are guaranteed no such continuity. The whole, maleus-rich souls of devils gathered by the zar’rokul and their agents are offered directly to Ixris, serving as a steady tribute to he who sits atop the infernal climb who consumes the souls upon arrival. Undoing them for eternity. This is a fate which can be gleaned by naztherak or the ponderings of mysticism, as well as a mark which can be uncovered and understood by slotted seers of Vaasek. I'm very confused on the explanation of why this is reserved to mystics and seers when you want other people to experience Naz lore and Ilzakarn. Plenty of other magics, creatures, and deities would able to uncover the mark when you describe it as easily suppressed and diminutive. You describe it as being criminally underused, but you've reserved it to the same community. There's no reason to speak it between each other. If you want to create an esoteric language then I think there should be some effort in providing other communities the possibility to interact with it beyond committing themselves to damnation in Super-Hell. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: They have ordinary levels of lifeforce and mana, though as a byproduct of their magical origin devils possess marginally altered blood: running black and colourless, devil-blood is of equal genus value to high elves. All Descendants were made of magical origin, and while I understand high elves have extra genus for posterity's sake, I don't really understand it here. Every race was cursed by Iblees to become what they are and yet Ixris is supposedly more powerful to give them more genus? Krug was bathed in what was essentially Malflame to turn him into an orc, and has the same amount of Genus as everyone else. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: The sole characteristic that makes devils unique amongst others is the diminutive blemish on their spirit that marks them as claimed by Ixris. Whilst easily suppressed by deific connections in life, or circumvented by undeath, the same fate awaits all devils should this stain on the soul be left unchecked. I don't like how this lore dances between describing the mark of Ixris, a diminutive blemish and something that permanently claims someone for all eternity to be consumed by the founder of super-hell. If this mark is only suppressed and not removed, then why would any of these deities want Ixris's meal ticket in their realm? How is this mark invisible if its something marked on the soul(it persists in other planes)? What happens when someone becomes a CA? Being this vague doesn't expand the interaction beyond the people who are already committed to this archetype or who are already part of the Naz community. I think The Material Alphabet Lore is one of the best submissions you've written in recent time because it connects a lot of the sloppiness of earlier enchanting magics and archetypes into something easily digestible. I think like that submission, you would better reach your goals if more time was spent making it interactable beyond people within those cliques. This submission could fix the way the forces of light and dark interact with the Moz Strimoza on a mortal level. Al'tahrn-Durngo, Ilzakarn, Blackspeech, and Old Blah are all essentially the same thing, yet we have at least 4 spooky languages, 3 of which were made by Spirits. Why limit Ilzakarn to only Blessed Children, when Al'tahrn-Durngo already exists for all dark magics and was made by Ikuras. It would service you better if there were just more magics/groups already outside of these communities that could interact with this lore. (Blood Magic, Shamanism, Alchemy, other deific magics, etc). Giving them some way to learn Ilzakarn or simply just unifying the languages would make more sense then creating a new creature that's immune to deific clauses and has extra genus. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neviah 977 Share Posted November 8, 2022 Such timing... +1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of The Moon 5124 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Panashea said: Ixris is an impossibly evil and powerful creature yet his mark can't be seen by other Aengudaemons, Spirits, Aspects, or even other manipulators of lifeforce and the soulstream like necromancers. I don't understand what's led you to this conclusion. You've iterated several times that the mark is somehow invisible, yet the lore clearly states it can be both detected and suppressed by any deity that connects with the character in question, as well as mystics, naztherak and seer - all of whom have their own IC reasons to be able to discover it. If you feel like there should be more magics that permit such I'm open to suggestions? 1 hour ago, Panashea said: All Descendants were made of magical origin, and while I understand high elves have extra genus for posterity's sake, I don't really understand it here. Every race was cursed by Iblees to become what they are and yet Ixris is supposedly more powerful to give them more genus? Krug was bathed in what was essentially Malflame to turn him into an orc, and has the same amount of Genus as everyone else. Genus levels are altered based on a creature's exposure to magic. This is a precedent that already exists and has existed in blood magic since its origin on the server. The four brothers being cursed centuries ago is in no way equivocal to the likes of High Elves whose lore explicitly details them inheriting an inclination toward the arcane. In this piece it is used - to no tangible advantage - express that these beings have been directly cursed in their lifetimes and are inherently more 'magical' than the common descendant, even if such is made manifest in such a minor way. 1 hour ago, Panashea said: I don't like how this lore dances between describing the mark of Ixris, a diminutive blemish and something that permanently claims someone for all eternity to be consumed by the founder of super-hell. If this mark is only suppressed and not removed, then why would any of these deities want Ixris's meal ticket in their realm? How is this mark invisible if its something marked on the soul(it persists in other planes)? What happens when someone becomes a CA? Ixris craves power first and foremost, which they gain from the consumption of maleus - mortal souls broken down to what is effectively raw energy when harnessed by infernal creatures. It is for that purpose alone that these creatures are 'marked', signifying through the same apparatus that condemns others to their respective afterlives via the soulstream that they're addressed to him in death. It operates in an identical fashion to how humans are usually destined to the Seven Skies due to how Aeriel has marked them; not something that is consciously maintained and also not perpetually observed. Ixris is not omnipotent. Should a 'devil' make a bond with a divine entity in life then that mark becomes inconsequential, and if they die without being disconnected from that deity then the mark will be erased as the 'claim' of said divine will always take precedent for the same reasons that human paladins end up in Xan's realm instead of the Seven Skies, and dark elven shamans end up in Star'gush Stroh instead of the Eternal Forest. 1 hour ago, Panashea said: Being this vague doesn't expand the interaction beyond the people who are already committed to this archetype or who are already part of the Naz community. This lore isn't being written for the Naz community. I am not a member of it, nor are any of the currently played 'cursed children' to my knowledge. This lore is for the pre-existing 'cursed child' characters, of which there are mystics, a shaman, animii crafters, a druid and a number of other unaffiliated niches which will only continue to grow because 'cursed children' - whilst originating from the curses of naztherak - are not inherently constrained to demonology RP, nor have they ever been since their addition in 2018, whilst efforts have been made by naztherak players to curse people somewhat at random to give their magic more presence in the world. In fact, this rewrite by design will only further that gap away from whatever 'clique' you think exists, as for the first time it is canonised that two 'devils' can naturally produce more without any involvement from that magic. 1 hour ago, Panashea said: I think like that submission, you would better reach your goals if more time was spent making it interactable beyond people within those cliques. This submission could fix the way the forces of light and dark interact with the Moz Strimoza on a mortal level. To reiterate, there is no 'clique' behind this creature. I have yet to RP with @PrinceJose270's character who has existed for almost as long as mine. @tadabug2000 began playing one only weeks ago and has had no prerequisite contact with myself or any other 'devil' player that I am aware of. It isn't some closeknit magic group stroking each other off and, again, all that this lore changes in in-game terms are making it so that more people are capable of playing this creature themselves, without any interaction with a naztherak (OOCly or ICly) necessary. I do not know what you intend with the latter part of this comment, but it looks too esoteric to have much impact on RP. 1 hour ago, Panashea said: Al'tahrn-Durngo, Ilzakarn, Blackspeech, and Old Blah are all essentially the same thing, yet we have at least 4 spooky languages, 3 of which were made by Spirits. They are not 'the same thing'. Firstly, 'Blackspeech' is a vague term that has both been used to refer to Al'tahrn-Durngo and Old Blah in the past; it is not a standalone language in any capacity. Secondly, Al'tahrn-Durngo is the Ebritean language, the language of the dead. It is believed to have been originated by Iblees.Old Blah is the language of the Spirits (capital 'S'; affiliated with shamanism).Ilzakarn's 'origin' is in Al'tahrn-Durngo and Old Blah in the loosest sense of the word. Due to Ixris' affiliation with Iblees and his Undead left in the Nether until his invasion of Asulon, who were twisted into roughly half of Moz Strimoza's population during the Ixris' rise, the language shares the script and much of the grammer of Al'tarn-Durngo. Due to Ixris' past amongst the spirits, and that of the other half of Moz Strimoza's founding population - primarily orcish souls trapped in the spirit wastes - many words are to this day borrowed from Old Blah. Though, the language has existed (and continued to evolve) for centuries now to the point it is wholly distinct from both. There is no reason for groups not affiliated with demons directly to be able to inherently speak it. For the same reasons that I as an English speaker cannot understand Norse despite countless borrowed words, nor do I understand Latin despite using its alphabet. Claiming '3 of which were made by the Spirits' is not only false but it's a strawman that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. 1 hour ago, Panashea said: Why limit Ilzakarn to only Blessed Children, when Al'tahrn-Durngo already exists for all dark magics and was made by Ikuras. It would service you better if there were just more magics/groups already outside of these communities that could interact with this lore. (Blood Magic, Shamanism, Alchemy, other deific magics, etc). Ilzakarn is not to be limited only to the creature this lore is about. The language already exists and is already used by naztherak (current and former) and inferi. The purpose of making the language accessible to 'devils' is to make it far more widely available than it currently is. I think you're misinterpreting this piece as adding a limit to the language where there was none before. This is actually the inverse of the reason for Ilzakarn's mention here: current Naztherak lore has the language redlined so that only inferi and naztherak can use it. This was a call made by those that wrote the current Naztherak lore, not me. Having the language become open to a whole host of other magic and CAs (which wouldn't make sense) is a choice to be made by Naztherak's loreholders, not me. As a member of the ST you can actually check the amendment chat to see me a few weeks back arguing to lift this restriction, a request that was rejected by the team. Irrespective of my opinions on such, this lore simply isn't doing what you think it's doing. The mention of Ilzakarn in this piece I've submitted is meant to get around that redline by at the very least opening the language to a loosely affiliated creature, in a traceable way that will respect the boundaries set by Naztherak lore. 1 hour ago, Panashea said: Giving them some way to learn Ilzakarn or simply just unifying the languages would make more sense then creating a new creature that's immune to deific clauses and has extra genus. I have no idea how you came to conclude that these creatures are in any way 'immune to deific clauses'. As far as I can tell I have been clear throughout the piece that they are affected by and able to practice any magic or divine connection in an identical fashion to other descendants, as is already the case in the currently accepted lore. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeSmoothie 4903 Share Posted November 9, 2022 I like the rewrite, specifically the addition of the whole soul thing; I just feel like it gives them more depth than the past submission, emphasizing that they're devils and not reskinned descendant with horns. Big +1 One question, I may have glossed it over if it's already answered there: What happens if a devil were to have children /w a regular descendant? I recall a pretty big family of elves from Rosenyr saying they had tails & horns from a single cursed child parent, but I also recall ST saying no traits are passed on regardless. Could there be some kind of middle-man (no horns/wings/etc, but blatantly odd or twisted features), or is it more of a 'they have to have a completely tainted soul, not partly, to inherit any of the traits'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of The Moon 5124 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, TreeSmoothie said: What happens if a devil were to have children /w a regular descendant? I recall a pretty big family of elves from Rosenyr saying they had tails & horns from a single cursed child parent, but I also recall ST saying no traits are passed on regardless. Could there be some kind of middle-man (no horns/wings/etc, but blatantly odd or twisted features), or is it more of a 'they have to have a completely tainted soul, not partly, to inherit any of the traits'? You might've missed it, but I intended for this line to cover it. 3 hours ago, The King Of The Moon said: -Were a devil to reproduce with an ordinary descendant, no devilish features would be passed to their offspring - which would appear as an ordinary child from the underlying race of the devil and the other parent. The children of a devil with a regular descendant would be totally ordinary. The lore reason for this is either they are marked or they're not. The 'ooc' reason is simply tracking, and fear of things getting overly convoluted; people pulling a St Patrick's day and claiming they're one eighth demon so should be able to know Ilzakarn. A big motivator for this rewrite was making the creature as it stands much more traceable. Sorry to disappoint! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeSmoothie 4903 Share Posted November 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, The King Of The Moon said: You might've missed it, but I intended for this line to cover it. The children of a devil with a regular descendant would be totally ordinary. The lore reason for this is either they are marked or they're not. The 'ooc' reason is simply tracking, and fear of things getting overly convoluted; people pulling a St Patrick's day and claiming they're one eighth demon so should be able to know Ilzakarn. A big motivator for this rewrite was making the creature as it stands much more traceable. Sorry to disappoint! um ackshually I am 1/13th demon . . . so I have wings and 3 ft long horns and demon magick!!!😡 Thanks for the clarification! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panashea 2644 Share Posted November 9, 2022 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: Genus levels are altered based on a creature's exposure to magic. This is a precedent that already exists and has existed in blood magic since its origin on the server. The four brothers being cursed centuries ago is in no way equivocal to the likes of High Elves whose lore explicitly details them inheriting an inclination toward the arcane. In this piece it is used - to no tangible advantage - express that these beings have been directly cursed in their lifetimes and are inherently more 'magical' than the common descendant, even if such is made manifest in such a minor way. My issue is more that something described as benign is capable of giving more genus, yet no other curse functions this way. Why is this the exception when all genus serves to do is give Blood Mages and alchemists a resource? How is that not a tangible advantage? A necromancer's curse is far worse physical effects and is the perversion of someone's life-force, yet doesn't affect their genus in anyway. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: Secondly, Al'tahrn-Durngo is the Ebritean language, the language of the dead. It is believed to have been originated by Iblees. Naz: Tentoa: Taken from the current Naztherak lore and the submission from Tentoa for Al'tarhn-Durngo. I understand these submissions are old, and in fact contradict each other, but that's part of the problem I have. Why move past what needs fixing? That's what I mean by an opportunity to fix and mend lore that doesn't fit together. That's partly what I meant by the vague forces of light and dark. I suggested Blood Magic,Alchemy, Shamanism, and Necromancy, but other deific magics should have some interaction with beings marked by Ixris beyond a pat on the shoulder and turning the other way. Even Corcitura face worse persecution and their mark is even more mundane. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: There is no reason for groups not affiliated with demons directly to be able to inherently speak it. For the same reasons that I as an English speaker cannot understand Norse despite countless borrowed words, nor do I understand Latin despite using its alphabet. Claiming '3 of which were made by the Spirits' is not only false but it's a strawman that just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Current Naz lore describes it as being based in a dialect, not something so vastly different like the difference between English and Norse, or Latin. Something closer would be Blah and Old Blah, or Common and Blah since these are all derivatives of each other. If we go by its submission, Ilzakarn, Al'tahm-Durngo, and Old Blah are all spiritual languages (3). 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: I think you're misinterpreting this piece as adding a limit to the language where there was none before. This is actually the inverse of the reason for Ilzakarn's mention here: current Naztherak lore has the language redlined so that only inferi and naztherak can use it. This was a call made by those that wrote the current Naztherak lore, not me. Having the language become open to a whole host of other magic and CAs (which wouldn't make sense) is a choice to be made by Naztherak's loreholders, not me. I know your piece adds Blessed Children to the list of Ilzakarn's potential speakers, but to be a Blessed Child you would have already had to interact with the community. Princejose is the exception, not the norm, and letting a few stragglers who make kids irp to bump up their genus count just seems super insular. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: In fact, this rewrite by design will only further that gap away from whatever 'clique' you think exists, as for the first time it is canonised that two 'devils' can naturally produce more without any involvement from that magic. Finding someone to romance shouldn't be the valid way to pursue RP in any submission. I'm not really the biggest proponent of the current lore either, as what it suggests about the nature of aengudaemons/spirits and their intimate relationships on the mortal realm leaves a bad taste in my mouth from past mistakes. I would much rather the natural means avoid that all together and just have an inherent ritual everyone knows to turn their kids. 1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said: If you feel like there should be more magics that permit such I'm open to suggestions? Necromancers, Shamans, Blood Mages, Alchemists,s all have crucial parts attached to Moz Strimoza lore, from Iblees himself, to spiritual involvement with Ixli and Ikuras, the Figuga'Uzg, Dark Shamanism, Blood Magic's use of summoning inferi and blood naz, Alchemists and their intersection with infernal alchemy(though that partially got scrapped once people outside of the naz community started using it), etc. If you want to expand upon Ilzakarn and make it more noteworthy, then you can't ignore the need of connecting a lot of these pieces together, which is my problem with this initial submission, and Moz/Naz submissions before it. It seems there's a divide between how people want this Naz lore to be addressed, with a separate rewrite, and how there are conflicting representations of Ixli,Ikuras, and Ixris' involvement. I am unsure how to address it, as I'm doing the same with shamanism and it partly feels like I've barred from the discussion from the inception of the Moz all together. I don't mean to try and put you specifically on blast, but this is an issue I've tried talking about with multiple people and have been stonewalled about it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of The Moon 5124 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Panashea said: I don't mean to try and put you specifically on blast, but this is an issue I've tried talking about with multiple people and have been stonewalled about it. And whilst I appreciate that and these issues, I feel like this particular piece is so minorly involved in the wider-universe canon concerns that you have that I think you might be venting these frustrations in the wrong place.As the main writer behind Ixris, who did so in consistent contact with management and administration as part of the wider pantheon project, and as co-writer of the Moz Strimoza and the Inferi worldlore piece, I am confident that the interactions with said pieces listed here are consistent with canon. Something that I have ratified with by consulting two loremasters on the topic, one of whom is currently behind Ixris' presence in-game since my departure from the ST.I wholeheartedly feel that this piece is of such minor 'background' or OOC impact that no harm can come of it, whilst the IC ramifications only serve to offer more avenues of RP for the characters involved in a manner leagues better than the current lore which will remain so if this rewrite is nitpicked to death. The same is true for many other misconceptions you seem to have relating to underuse of the language, 'cliques' and so on; whilst it may not be a revolutionary piece (nor does it intend to be) it is a net improvement on all of the aforementioned fronts. Ultimately from my perspective a lot of your critiques boil down to wanting a worldlore piece addressing things only loosely related by what this piece intends based off of precedent (genus, soul lore, Ixris and so on)... And whilst those concerns have a place, they aren't really all too relevant to what this piece was written to achieve, nor could the issues you envision be in any way worsened by this piece's implementation. The crux of my argument here is that this piece is meant for the present and future players of this type of character. It is not by any means meant as a re-imagining of back-facing wordlore, whilst still staying consistent with it. 17 hours ago, Panashea said: Necromancers, Shamans, Blood Mages, Alchemists,s all have crucial parts attached to Moz Strimoza lore, from Iblees himself, to spiritual involvement with Ixli and Ikuras, the Figuga'Uzg, Dark Shamanism, Blood Magic's use of summoning inferi and blood naz, Alchemists and their intersection with infernal alchemy(though that partially got scrapped once people outside of the naz community started using it), etc. I will say regarding these I think you're missing the point of why mysticism, naztherak and seer are explicitly mentioned in the piece at present. Their purpose is to allow players to discover the fate of 'devils' so as to ICly spread the incentives intended by said fate, through spells already written into their magics which let them directly interact with living souls. I am more than happy to expand the list at present so long as it makes sense in terms of what can currently be achieved by player magics. I'm sure there's a subtype or two of Shamanism with a relevant ability, for instance. If you could point me to which would be most appropriate, I'd gladly edit them in. Though to my knowledge Blood Mages, Alchemists and Necromancers all lack the necessary tools to do so - chiefly spells that actively permit tampering with and clairvoyant study of living souls, similar but not synonymous with some of the same practices that allow player characters to see prophecies - and therefore shouldn't be included in this piece. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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