[✗] [AMENDMENT] Seer Addition

[AnonymousEyesockets 13]

Lore: https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/211641-%E2%9C%93-feat-magic-lore-seers-cozeners-of-vaasek/

Purpose:
A Seer’s function as an MA is to foment chaos, or from the Cozener’s page, “accent the rp of others.. slide into any setting and any theme.. Validate religions and revive old ones”, and overall to perform the function as a dark cancer spreading across the setting regardless of what community it was infecting. However, since its renewed adoption last year, we’ve seen due to one tenant in its lore and one redline it has become almost exclusively a spook-only magic. You could certainly not have a Paladin-seer, or an Azdrazi-seer, or any other MA or organization that outright necessitates conflict with other Seers or their plots. Some people will have a different experience than others, but overall it is a limitation that doesn’t serve its intended function and creates a great emphasis on OOC coordination.

-A seer cannot kill or harm another seer unless permitted by the victim.
-While seers can inherently recognize other seers by name or eye contact they do not derive any information about the identity, likeness, affiliations, etc. of the seer and are only aware that they are kin and cannot be crossed unless plotted mutually.

Taking in the opinions of numerous, long-time political and conspiratorial players that have turned down or lost interest in Seer, the #1 reason commonly cited is that being forced into plots outside of their character’s interest, or is even contrary, to them is not only inherently unappealing, but defeats the purpose of adopting the magic itself. How the rules currently exist forces one’s character into the position of being a dark-spawn (or close affiliate) due to their sheer dominance over the magic. To elaborate and give an example; you could not scheme to take over an organization, if another Seer has ‘laid claim’ to it already. You also could not kill that Seer. You can do nothing but help them, or walk away.

I and my believe that this is not only a hindrance to the very theme the MA seeks to fulfill, “sowing chaos” through careful planning and mentalism, but is overall not conducive to roleplay as a whole. Instead of this restriction, we think it would be both more lore accurate and roleplay friendly to make two changes that maintains the potential for mutual Seer collaboration, while removing the heavy OOC reliant aspect of the magic for the chance at improved character diversity.

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1. Remove the ability for Seers to automatically recognize one another. They have plenty of ways they can already identify one another, as well as a spell dedicated to analyzing what flavor of weird someone is already. This will allow greater freedom as a Seer, unhindered by “ooc-enforced compatriots”, and relieve any future plots from immediate cases of “Oh a Seer is behind this”.

2. Remove the problematic Tenant itself, and instead replace it with a new Tier 4 ritual that serves a similar, but more roleplay friendly outcome.

Beget Conspiracy - Non-combative - T4 - 4 Emotes

Seers establish a secret covenant between fellow Seers toward a single plot.
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The Vowaging ceremony may be entirely freeform, though it requires all participants to state clearly the agreed upon details of their part of the Vow (i.e., “I, Tylion of Gooseroost, will target the Grand Protector of the Nyflhill Chamber: Yuril, and fill his head with delusions of the King's incompetence. Verily, as I perform this feat, I vow also to bring no harm to my Master, Hurig."), then passing onto the next person, if there are any. A Vow can be made between any Seer with the feat, and must be spoken upon a central object, which may be anything as small as a ring or four blocks in total size (shields, tombstones, monuments, great swords, etc.). This object appears entirely normal, though a sensation within a one block radius of it promotes a feeling of paranoia, and is in no way debilitating. These objects are called the Radix of Ruin and Seer’s above T2 may recognize them using Spot Energy or Appraise. 

 

Breaking a Vow: The Vow may only be broken by the PK of the one leading the Vow, the willful negation of the Vow by that very person, or the destruction of the Radix. Creating a Radix gives an object no additional protective qualities, so it is wise to use it upon something with quality craftsmanship and materials. Any sizable damage from warping with heat, forming large dents, shattering, or deeply scratching, will break a Radix permanently, giving the Vowed Seer’s a harmless though debilitating, momentary seizure of light and pain as they were forcibly removed from one another. The aforementioned T2 Seers that have discovered a Radix may read its surface, learning the names and intent of the Vow.

Old Seers may grandfather one another into an ongoing Vow or multiple, so as to not disrupt current day plots, so long as consent is given. They may select who they like to be the Vower and Vowee’s at their discretion. 

Redlines

-Requires OOC consent from all Bonded Seers, maintaining the exception made to feat Seers that their consent is already given.
-Once a Plot’s purpose has been fulfilled, the Coven will automatically disband. This is decided by the Vower.
-The Vower may likewise dissolve or remove any member from a Plot whenever they wish.  -All members of a Vow are unable to act against the established Plot. Plots outside of the Vow may still be acted on and conflict as necessary.
-There is no limit to the amount of Vows one can take, but be aware of overlapping contradictions in which case the ritual would not function.
 

Purpose of Amendment: This should allow current Seers to maintain the relationship they have fostered at their own discretion to do so, while also removing the grievances that make it so undesirable for others to enter the MA and Seer roleplay. The price of Seer is a fragment of your soul, not easily traded, and is too valuable to be offered up in a community where inevitable OOC conflicts and interests can permanently take that from a character. We can see a tradition quickly forming where a master Seer and their new apprentice join under a Plot, withholding information on the wider Seer community and plans, and slowly tailoring them into capable agents of Vaseek in their own right. By doing so, Seer conflict becomes possible, creating new storylines that might take the form of shadow wars, battles of the mind and intrigue, or entirely new religions/communities. We love Seer, we love conspiratorial rp, and we believe something so perfectly tailored to this niche should be freed from this severe limitation, replaced with new opportunity instead.

Edited November 2, 2023 by AnonymousEyesockets
reformatting

[rukio 8910]

I like this, especially after having been told when I was possibly going to be given a MA that people didn't like me OOC and would refuse to acknowledge my character's existence over it IRP. +1

 

One complaint- change the text color its all blurry for me.

[lemonke 1873]

Why do you write things as like "We believe". I don't know if you're part of the seer community but getting a heads up on this would have been cool. Nevertheless, I would like to point out that through this, it doesn't mean the seer TA will teach the FA one anything; sure, we know thay they exist IC but no one is forced or obliged to teach you or anyone who has a FA on their character.

 

I'd advise to also adjust the format since it's a bit difficult to read. They don't have plenty of ways to know who is a seer or not other than hearing, reading one's name. If you are a seer, you would know that no one is forced to help one another as anyone have their cabals. For example, my one doesn’t particularly get involved with the main one thay resides in a nation that my cabal hates. Yet, we go against that nation but not the group of seer-- I'm pretty sure the lore states seer are no responsable of their group outside the various seers cabal.

 

Although, I do agree that often it ends up into a OOC conflict of who broke the tenent first, which is stupid lol. There is a lot of subtle animosity. I feel SEER's rules do need a change but this lore piece might not be the right approach. But yeah, don't say "We" as if the whole group agreed with it!

 

Also, seers aren't forced to be dark mages but this kind of rp is more comfortable for the aforementioned players.

[HIGH_FIRE 4118]

13 minutes ago, lemonke said:

I don't know if you're part of the seer community but getting a heads up on this would have been cool.

 

while i think the amendment is cool, and i'm definitely a fan. I wanna bring a quick notice to this comment.

mentality like this is kinda unneeded, i've seen it in various communities including ones i was a part of when i made an amendment for it. nobody owes you a heads up on potential changes to your magic, when the amendment is submitted you have your chance to read over it and make judgement. just because you have the magic, you don't have to see it before it's posted. just seems unnecessary to make such a comment on someone else's work

ANYHOW
cool amendment on a magic a find interesting +1

[lemonke 1873]

2 minutes ago, HIGH_FIRE said:

 

while i think the amendment is cool, and i'm definitely a fan. I wanna bring a quick notice to this comment.

mentality like this is kinda unneeded, i've seen it in various communities including ones i was a part of when i made an amendment for it. nobody owes you a heads up on potential changes to your magic, when the amendment is submitted you have your chance to read over it and make judgement. just because you have the magic, you don't have to see it before it's posted. just seems unnecessary to make such a comment on someone else's work

ANYHOW
cool amendment on a magic a find interesting +1

A heads up would have cool, not to deny the idea but to help him because I have already heard complaint about the formatting(people cannot understand the message he's trying to deliver) and to give them an "insight" of seer stuff since as I stated the tenents do indeed need a change. Don't come here with your mineman hero-like morality please.

[HIGH_FIRE 4118]

2 minutes ago, lemonke said:

A heads up would have cool, not to deny the idea but to help him because I have already heard complaint about the formatting(people cannot understand the message he's trying to deliver) and to give them an "insight" of seer stuff since as I stated the tenents do indeed need a change. Don't come here with your mineman hero-like morality please.

 

it's not a mineman hero like mentality, please do not lower it to insults. my point is that the comment was unneeded.

[lemonke 1873]

Just now, HIGH_FIRE said:

 

it's not a mineman hero like mentality, please do not lower it to insults. my point is that the comment was unneeded.

It's an insult only you believed it to be. If I knew this guy was gonna make such a suggestion, i would have helped him to improve the format at least as I don't rlly care if someone who is not involved with us writes something out but at the same time, let's say it gets accepted. It isn’t going to affect him but the people within the community who had 0 say on this. Hence, why I said if he had given a heads up, a thing called communication(at least on my part) could have been achieved to assist him in this or specify how really seer inner things work.

[rukio 8910]

3 minutes ago, lemonke said:

It's an insult only you believed it to be. If I knew this guy was gonna make such a suggestion, i would have helped him to improve the format at least as I don't rlly care if someone who is not involved with us writes something out but at the same time, let's say it gets accepted. It isn’t going to affect him but the people within the community who had 0 say on this. Hence, why I said if he had given a heads up, a thing called communication(at least on my part) could have been achieved to assist him in this or specify how really seer inner things work.

idk sounds like OP hit the nail on the head since the only complaints have been the colors used and not being given a heads up.

[HIGH_FIRE 4118]

6 minutes ago, lemonke said:

It's an insult only you believed it to be. If I knew this guy was gonna make such a suggestion, i would have helped him to improve the format at least as I don't rlly care if someone who is not involved with us writes something out but at the same time, let's say it gets accepted. It isn’t going to affect him but the people within the community who had 0 say on this. Hence, why I said if he had given a heads up, a thing called communication(at least on my part) could have been achieved to assist him in this or specify how really seer inner things work.

 

no it’s an insult because you accused me of being a white knight for disagreeing with something you said.

 

my point remains that telling people they should have given you a heads up is not a necessary response to a well written post. i only say this as i was inundated with such after making an amendment for siliti which led to me hiding the post due to such a response. if you have criticism, give it, don’t assert that you should have been told about it beforehand.

[lemonke 1873]

8 minutes ago, HIGH_FIRE said:

 

no it’s an insult because you accused me of being a white knight for disagreeing with something you said.

 

my point remains that telling people they should have given you a heads up is not a necessary response to a well written post. i only say this as i was inundated with such after making an amendment for siliti which led to me hiding the post due to such a response. if you have criticism, give it, don’t assert that you should have been told about it beforehand.

Huh. Did I insult the guy or tell him his idea is dogshit? I gave my criticism, I also offered here help, I stated tenents need a change amd having an insight of a seer may be better than naught. I don't know what else you want as I didn't say the guy is blacklisted from doing what he wants. Also, you were involved with the Siliti to some extent and if they gave you crap for an idea you wanted, that's their fault for being dicks. I have experienced a similar thing with Siliti ppl btw, to the point I got dogpilled over my post lol.

 

You can get offended over my comment whatever you wish but I stated my opinion alone and if you think it's unneeded regardless if my genuine suggestion. Sure, have an opinion of whatever you want broski. I ain't stopping you.

[NLThomas 1065]

I see a lot of "We" used in the post, which makes me curious who we truly are. As of what I have seen about there was no real discussion on it in the Seer discord, along with the fact a alt account is used for anonymity makes it feel like you aren't even sure about the change or know people won't like this change.

 

That aside, Seers are able to recognise each other because they are not ment to harm one another. Along with this there is the ability to talk with each other telekinetically to get out of any issues that two Seers of opposing factions might find themself in, of which I would like to remind people of the idea of "Seers above all else". Family, allegiance, no matter what, Seers go above that. 

Only thing I do agree with is the fact the plot parts. My biggest issue being the fact that someone can be unaware OOC of what plot some other Seer might be up to and accidentally oppose it. A change I would like to see is that Seers can not Knowingly oppose each others plot. If it's on accident, it happens. Even then I feel like Seers should strife to work together.

 

Edit: Appears I'm a doofus and it's written in the lore that it's only relevant to cabal members who are aware of the plot. Woopsie daisy. 

 

[marikandaperc 1165]

i would like to see this reformatted maybe for better understanding. if there was a little more effort in the formatting (which is totally absent, even in the red lines) it would be easier to understand and maybe we would end up agreeing

[wooz 341]

Reformat please lol, but otherwise +1 would like to see this, would drive me to play my seer again

[Ibn Khaldun 7729]

 

No need to get into back & forths on this type of thread. Comment on the merits of the suggested amendment, everything else can be handled off the forums via Discord [politely].

[TheNerdocalypse 269]

All I have to say is that I'm not against an amendment, but I feel that no seers were contacted in regards to this amendment. Communication is required when you alter a lore that will affect the community, and I have seen no effort in providing such. My discord is nerdocalypse if you want to talk more about the amendment with me, I promise not to share your discord as I can see you wish for privacy. All I ask is for some communication or input from other seers before this is accepted or denied.