N.G.M | The Skill Credit System

[Availer 681]

Pay to win-In other words, a new member can waltz in and shove some money about and boom. All sorts of things are available to him because he has the privilege to put his money into the game.

What would be available to him? The ability to have access to 20 or 30 more skill points from the pool of 275. Bearing in mind that the maximum any skill can become using skill points is 30, therefore he can not get over 30 in any skill regardless, it's no real advantage, just a small perk which he deserves for sacrificing money to keep this community going.

I'm not saying that the donator perks idea is bad. But I already have issue with a number of things with it, chief among them being that a community that boasts being totally strict rp should not endorse ooc means of character devlopment or advancement (ie giving them the Lord title, or affording them a huge plot of land just for paying some money.

OOC Character Development is the primary means of how a character develops. You develop your character before you enter the world, you think about what you do OOC, not everything you do is integrated in-game. Furthermore, Lordship titles are given through RP and can be revoked at any moment. The plots of lands aren't huge and it's not JUST for PAYING SOME MONEY, it's a huge donation that is really needed by the community. If it's just paying some money why don't you donate?

My hugest issue, and this is both with the skill points suggestion and even without it, is that so many of the so-called "perks" of becoming a donator totally and utterly separates somebody who doesn't donate from the donator. If I had my way the only perks to becoming a donator would be a nice colored name and some minas. Everything else is unfair because alot of it is unattainable through normal rp means, which means that it is in itself an OOC assertion of not only value but also total denial of rp in general.

Of course it will separate them, but theyre relatively harmless perks and you can easily get access to all donator perks in-game through RP interaction, there is nothing YOU CAN NOT GET except the coloured name.

From what I understand I have to pay you real money to open a shop in character? That is utterly absurd! This is an rp community. Any character should be able to pay their city a certain amount of minas a month to maintain their shop.

Donators are given the ability to create AUTOMATIC shops which are not part of RP in the first place and for that reason we don't want many of them littering our world. It's better that most of the trade is through RP and that is why we limited it. However automatic shops are important to keeping the economy going.

Protected plots of land, lockable chests and gates and the like also detract from rp. Any and all people should have the right to lock any chest or door that they've placed. However thanks to the so-called "perks" only the "special people" have access to it.

Lockable chests are very important, and plots of land do not detract from RP. Not any person can lock a chest, not even in real life, and if thieves had the ability to break into whatever they wanted then the server would become anarchy.

The digging limit is absurd. If there is a limit for anyone, it should be for all. If not, then none for all. This is a classic example of OOC assertion over RP.

What your saying doesn't make sense.

Skill points should be earned, not bought. This is why we say pay to win because somebody could just purchase 50 points and up their swordsman to 100 on day one. It's obvious what I mean when I say "win"; I don't mean winning some sort of prize, but more that any character can get max stats without rping as long as they pay the right price for it.

You dont understand how skill points work.

Making a kingdom or nation: I really don't even need to argue with this. If you don't have the support, donating shouldn't give you the right to try and make a nation. at all.

It doesnt give you the right to make a kingdom of nation, your information is outdated.-

And to whoever said that talking against the donator perks is ignoring the rules.....that doesn't make sense. Any member has the right to state their opinion in the community because we are what drive the community. Just as members instigate new rules, they can also instigate rule changes if the whole of the community feels strongly enough. If you need proof, look no further than the beginning of this thread-we wanted the skill system back for a while and thanks to a poll held it was reinstated (although I'm sure plans were in effect already the public opinion cinched it).

It was reinstated because we paid for more expensive hardware thanks to peoples donations. Therefore Minecraft could actually run the script without issues, the skill system is a staff based designed game mechanic.

<3

[James Undercroft 129]

By digging the limit I believe he means donators can dig to bedrock in their plots.

(I am in no way in support or against this, merely pointing out what he means)

Not to be rude, but towards the end you got just a little blunt. :razz:

[Sporadic 2844]

There is a lot of arisen confusion in how the skill system works. I cannot blame people for thinking 75 skill points is ALL they will get if they didn't login while reading this update.

Aka no way to level, just 75 points and that's IT.

The donator perk is a LOT more powerful if you consider it that way...

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1540]

Pay to win?

How about, you donate to the server and keep us afloat, in return we'll give you some in-game bonuses for being so awesome.

There's already enough bonuses to make people donating, the difference is just that this will give them a direct advantage.

[danic 352]

*sigh* is this agrument still continuing? Can please just agree to disagree, and end this.

[Sirbubbley 26]

oh how i wish i could slap you people thorugh the internet, DONATORS KEEP THIS SERVER RUNNING YOU FRIKIN' MORONS! IF ME AND OTHERS HADNT DONATED IN THE PAST YOU WOULD BE HERE GRIPPING BECAUSE YOU DONT WANT TO GIVE SOME MOENY TO SUPPORT THE SERVER YOU PLAY ON! we kept the server going we should get a few extar skill points and look at availer's post he said "Bearing in mind that the maximum any skill can become using skill points is 30, therefore he can not get over 30 in any skill regardless, it's no real advantage, just a small perk which he deserves for sacrificing money to keep this community going" ~Availer. SHUT UP ALREADY you cant grind to 25 then /set swords 100 it wouldnt work, all of you please shut up this is gone out of control this entire topic turned into " grip about the donators maybe getting a few extra points" SHUT IT! i need to stop before i burst a vein, good day, have fun in Aegis, and shut up about skill points and donators!

~ Royal Merchant Tailion

[fandridis 4]

From a bedrock donator point of view... A small bonus to the credit points available for donators is welcomed and not such a big deal. The only thing that changes is that a non-donator will need several more hours of grinding to reach the same skill level of the donator. Plus, we can't use the credits for levels 50+, therefore noone really avoids the BIG-GRIND of the final levels.

Now a raise of the skills cap for donators is another thing! I wouldn't like to know that only donators can have all-maxed... axes, swords, archery and blacksmith (an example) just because they donated. That will make them more powerful and is really not needed. Just a raise of the credits is enough in my opinion.

And about the server giving donators too many perks... ha-ha! This actually sounds funny for me. Let me tell you a story of how did I started to look for a server when I started playing.

- Going to minestatus

- Checking the top 15 servers.

- Excluding all the servers that give donators flying ability, ability to teleport instantly to another player or ability to have multiple wraps.

-Thinking how easy it was to choose, as I ended up with only one server in the list, LOTC!

[Cosmik 220]

Yowsa, I should've gotten on yesterday when this came out.

To add fuel to the fire - I don't mind that donators get extra goodies just as long as non-donators can get them through work.

But since the server's down, I have to wait to see if Archery is fixed. >_>

EDIT: Page 6 is hereby claimed in the name of Cosmik.

[Sirbubbley 26]

non donators can gain the skill poitns ITS CALLED KILL STUFF OR CHOP A TREE! wood aint hard to find stop gripping about every little thing (( not u cosmik ur fine but i forgot that in last post and edit wont work ))

[Song Druid 1486]

What would be available to him? The ability to have access to 20 or 30 more skill points from the pool of 275. Bearing in mind that the maximum any skill can become using skill points is 30, therefore he can not get over 30 in any skill regardless, it's no real advantage, just a small perk which he deserves for sacrificing money to keep this community going.

Not having to work for these skill points, for one. But since you make the point that these points are still within the confines of 275 (of which I had not been sure), then that is much better than what I had originally perceived (in other words, donators with 300, 400 skill points just lording over the little guys.)

OOC Character Development is the primary means of how a character develops. You develop your character before you enter the world, you think about what you do OOC, not everything you do is integrated in-game. Furthermore, Lordship titles are given through RP and can be revoked at any moment. The plots of lands aren't huge and it's not JUST for PAYING SOME MONEY, it's a huge donation that is really needed by the community. If it's just paying some money why don't you donate?

That argument doesn't really hold much-of course we act in an ooc medium, aka typing down what our character does or thinks because our character isn't real, but that doesn't mean that we preconceive their every action or reaction, which is the basic way the character actually develops. It is through our interactions and struggles, conflict and interest that we grow our characters, not sitting at our desks and plotting what comes next for them.

Where Lords are concerned, I actually retract what I said about them-I put a lot more thought into it and actually came to the realization that in medieval times the title was handed out like candy anyway, and we probably don't have enough Lords ! xD

Of course it will separate them, but theyre relatively harmless perks and you can easily get access to all donator perks in-game through RP interaction, there is nothing YOU CAN NOT GET except the coloured name.

Lockable doors/chests? That seems fair for non-donators.

Donators are given the ability to create AUTOMATIC shops which are not part of RP in the first place and for that reason we don't want many of them littering our world. It's better that most of the trade is through RP and that is why we limited it. However automatic shops are important to keeping the economy going.

I see.

Lockable chests are very important, and plots of land do not detract from RP. Not any person can lock a chest, not even in real life, and if thieves had the ability to break into whatever they wanted then the server would become anarchy.

So, our determinant on whether or not somebody is able to lock a chest IC is whether or not they've coughed up $25? I would rather like to see perhaps a lock limit, which I know is possible, that can be raised with donator.

What your saying doesn't make sense.

The digging limit placed on characters to where they cannot dig past y=60.

You dont understand how skill points work.

Probably not; then again I still have alot to learn in that depo.

It was reinstated because we paid for more expensive hardware thanks to peoples donations. Therefore Minecraft could actually run the script without issues, the skill system is a staff based designed game mechanic.

I was referencing the Return of Skills poll that was indeed held and announced on the website.

Anyways, I hope that made things clearer. :lol:

[Antharin 90]

Wow, I am excited! Keep up the good work.

[Trazier 115]

My hugest issue, and this is both with the skill points suggestion and even without it, is that so many of the so-called "perks" of becoming a donator totally and utterly separates somebody who doesn't donate from the donator. If I had my way the only perks to becoming a donator would be a nice colored name and some minas.

So what you're saying is, donating is ooc, and Availer should pay the $450 a month(maybe a bit less now since LOTC moved to Legendary Servers and Vaq admins here and owns that and is awesome, but I digress) to keep the server and teamspeak server up, out of his own pocket, until he's poor and the server has to shut down, because you don't like the donator perks?

From what I understand I have to pay you real money to open a shop in character? That is utterly absurd! This is an rp community. Any character should be able to pay their city a certain amount of minas a month to maintain their shop.

You understand wrong. Anyone can open a shop in character, but if you open one up in the wild, people can come by and rob you just as much as they might purchase something. It's safer to buy a stall in a city and sell there. Access to the 24/7 automated shop plugin (currently disabled) is a donator perk, but many people have had shops and sold goods without donating. Some folks even (gasp! i know...) roleplay the merchant and man their shop when they're online.

Protected plots of land, lockable chests and gates and the like also detract from rp. Any and all people should have the right to lock any chest or door that they've placed. However thanks to the so-called "perks" only the "special people" have access to it.

How does it detract from RP to require you to find a 'specialized builder' who can make you a bridge or gate or craftbook lift? Or that you find a 'locksmith' with LWC/lockette access who can lock your boxes or doors for you? That seems pretty RP to me. You should be so fortunate that people who donate are then allowed to create/lock things with their perks for people who don't donate. I'd consider that 'working around the donation rules', but I don't make/enforce those kinds of rules, and like I said, it adds flavor to be able to find locksmiths in game.

The digging limit is absurd. If there is a limit for anyone, it should be for all. If not, then none for all. This is a classic example of OOC assertion over RP.

Donators used to get a number of private mines instead, but those were growing out of control, and constantly regenerating mines has been one of the factors in map corruption. The 'dig an extra 20 blocks' was an acceptable compromise, and besides, you make it sound like everyone who donates can just run out and mine ten thousand diamonds. Y:40 only lets you get into the iron level, you can't find gold or diamonds or anything like that

[Golden_Harvest_Richards 37]

Personally, I would donate for the sake of the server, not for the perks.

Yet, personally, you havent donated anything. GG

Regarding Arik

What your saying doesn't make sense.

Let me re emphasize that most people don't join this server and donate on day one. I've been on here for 4 months and its Horrible RP that I'd have this stack of diamond and iron picks and SUDDENLY not be able to use them without days and days of grinding all over again.

I've probably broken 10 thousand pieces of stone in my time on this server and now I'm back to the stone age.

I even had stats before 1.8. High stats from hours and days of leveling dirt and mining. Giving veterans and donators enough skill points to get ahead makes total sense.

[Song Druid 1486]

So what you're saying is, donating is ooc, and Availer should pay the $450 a month(maybe a bit less now since LOTC moved to Legendary Servers and Vaq admins here and owns that and is awesome, but I digress) to keep the server and teamspeak server up, out of his own pocket, until he's poor and the server has to shut down, because you don't like the donator perks?You understand wrong. Anyone can open a shop in character, but if you open one up in the wild, people can come by and rob you just as much as they might purchase something. It's safer to buy a stall in a city and sell there. Access to the 24/7 automated shop plugin (currently disabled) is a donator perk, but many people have had shops and sold goods without donating. Some folks even (gasp! i know...) roleplay the merchant and man their shop when they're online.How does it detract from RP to require you to find a 'specialized builder' who can make you a bridge or gate or craftbook lift? Or that you find a 'locksmith' with LWC/lockette access who can lock your boxes or doors for you? That seems pretty RP to me. You should be so fortunate that people who donate are then allowed to create/lock things with their perks for people who don't donate. I'd consider that 'working around the donation rules', but I don't make/enforce those kinds of rules, and like I said, it adds flavor to be able to find locksmiths in game.Donators used to get a number of private mines instead, but those were growing out of control, and constantly regenerating mines has been one of the factors in map corruption. The 'dig an extra 20 blocks' was an acceptable compromise, and besides, you make it sound like everyone who donates can just run out and mine ten thousand diamonds. Y:40 only lets you get into the iron level, you can't find gold or diamonds or anything like that

To begin with, there was never any implication or discussion about whether or not people should stop donating. Don't twist my words so that I seem like a bad guy or anything, on the contrary my arguments are out of my own love for the server.

At the same time, I dislike the notion of propagating the "holier than thou" stance that inevitably comes with donating.

In regards to the shops, Availer did explain that you can own shops without donator.

"Find a locksmith with LWC/lockette access who can lock boxes or doors for you"?.....What? Why would I give a locksmith access to my things? Further, why not just make it so that you can buy new locks from locksmiths (an automated server shop that sells you lock slots on lwc/lockette), and donators just get unlimited? The point is that if I have to go find a donator who has decided to become a locksmith (for some reason) and then PAY him to lock my doors for me and give himself access to my things, I'd sooner leave them public.

As for digging, you completely ignore that bedrock donators can dig to, well, bedrock. There is no IC reason that a donator would have that advantage over a regular player. Is there, then, a way to buy license to dig past y=60 without having to go into a public mine? If not,t hen I rest my case.

[lemonjamulus 0]

It actually says on the MCforum page for this that you can buy land for 40-100 minas depending on location, so really, if you have 400,000-1,000,000 minas to hand you can be a bedrock donator with a huge fortress in the wilderness, or so you would believe.