Economics!

[Fid 566]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: Whitebeard

Change: Nation specific resources / Taxations

Why I love this change:

SO MUCH YES! If this is implemented, hunters will not be richer than lords! Countries will have to trade! Wars will be fought for a legitimate reason (resources) ! What is everyone complaining about? This guy is a genius for bringing this up. I have always felt that we needed something like this.

FOR EXAMPLE-

Say... Dwarves have ALL of the diamonds in Asulon. What will the Krugmar do? What will the HOE do? Either develop legitimate trade agreements or declare war and fight for it! What is wrong with this?

Taxes, taxes, taxes. Nations and Cities should announce them, make them, and control them if they consider it necessary. If not, they shouldn't be in place within the town. I am sick and tired of having to borrow money from a friend who slaughters monsters.

If this is implemented, I will be a very happy person. I have felt like this for the longest time. Also, to the people who are being picky (diamond doesn't degrade etc.) you have t realize that whatever your qualms, this system will be exponentially better for the community than the one currently in place.

[Cracker 4570]

Change: Adding "outposts" into 3.0; in essence they are conquerable resource generator facilities.

Reason behind the Change: This is a combination of racial resources and resource permits. Essentially, a way to moderate war and resources is by having them set up in outposts. There would exist a multitude of outposts; perhaps built by natives of 3.0 or by monks. They are littered around each racial capital, however, more of a specfic type of outpost would be near what a nation is used to creating.

For example, the Orcs may have 1-2 mining outposts near them, but dwarves would have 4-6. Elves would have spider infested forests surrondeing them which double as bow making and lumber creating outposts, while the Orcs would be largely starved out of wood aside from a few oasis.

These outposts can be fought over and conquered much like a town. The orcs could go out and conquer a dwarven mining outpost, and mine it out quickly before the dwarves can reclaim it, rendering the mine null until it regeneratess (these outposts would most likely be made using multiverse). These outposts are essentially the only place for people to gather a large amount of resources

The idea is these outposts direct war away from cities and places where people don't want to fight (losing their homes and such), create fun skirmishes over outposts for players who do wish to fight, and generating an economy by having limited resources which are either traded or fought over for.

[meg 1994]

Change: Adding "outposts" into 3.0; in essence they are conquerable resource generator facilities.

Reason behind the Change: This is a combination of racial resources and resource permits. Essentially, a way to moderate war and resources is by having them set up in outposts. There would exist a multitude of outposts; perhaps built by natives of 3.0 or by monks. They are littered around each racial capital, however, more of a specfic type of outpost would be near what a nation is used to creating.

For example, the Orcs may have 1-2 mining outposts near them, but dwarves would have 4-6. Elves would have spider infested forests surrondeing them which double as bow making and lumber creating outposts, while the Orcs would be largely starved out of wood aside from a few oasis.

These outposts can be fought over and conquered much like a town. The orcs could go out and conquer a dwarven mining outpost, and mine it out quickly before the dwarves can reclaim it, rendering the mine null until it regeneratess (these outposts would most likely be made using multiverse). These outposts are essentially the only place for people to gather a large amount of resources

The idea is these outposts direct war away from cities and places where people don't want to fight (losing their homes and such), create fun skirmishes over outposts for players who do wish to fight, and generating an economy by having limited resources which are either traded or fought over for.

I like the idea, but wouldn't the Nations rather ask each other for trade, rather than just declaring war on their resource areas? This is to promote trade, not war...

[meg 1994]

Change: Taxes, and maybe a plugin for them?

Reason behind the Change:Taxes have always been something Malinor has done, 200 minas per Elvish week. It was fairly easy, with the old money system, on saturday, when taxes were due, the citizens would just send the money to a Prince/Princess. While this system was QUITE un-rp, it was easy. With the new mina system, taxes have become harder to manage. Now, people, if they want to pay their taxes, have to find a Prince/Princess and pay them. While we have discussed making a tax house, where people may place their taxes in chests, perhaps a Plugin could be made to make tax-paying easier? I'm not sure how it would work, maybe someone could help me expand on it? Just a suggestion, other than that, I love the idea, especially paired with no mob drops, so now, instead of going hunting for an Hour to pay their taxes, people will actually have to get a job/sell their goods! Hooray!

[Cracker 4570]

Nations can fight over these outposts or trade/lend them out. The concept is resource limitation while also giving each nation regions which work with their race. It also helps clean up war by permitting multi-battle campaigns over outposts instead of one battle on a city.

There could also be outposts run by monks or in the wilds for guilds or independent factions and people to utilize.

[Arkenos Goldhand (Central) 17]

Not to detract from this thread's purpose, but Gold definitely does degrade as far as tools or crafted items made with it. It's one of the softest metals in the world.

Well, yes, if gold was being used in tools it would defiantly degrade, and fast at that. What I am saying is when it is in storage(what the degrade this post is talking about) gold does not per say "rust" or fall apart, but stays how it was when first stored.

Because we are talking about one of the things that was in the main post, I don't think we are detracting from the tread's purpose, but rather talking about one specific part of it.

[Aluaethner 17]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Whitebeard

Change:

Weapons degrade and food rotting

My concerns or ideas about the Change:

I love these ideas,but I think something should be added.Make it to were armor and food stored in chest take say half the time to degrade as it would out of it.This would defiantly increase Rp in cities,imagine going into the docks of say Silver City and seeing warehouses along the docks with people moving thing in and out to all the corners of Asulon.

[Esterlen 4499]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Whitebeard

Change:

Removing mina drops from mobs

My concerns or ideas about the Change:

I don't think this should be implemented at all. Mobs are ridiculously overpowered as is. Currently, the situation is either have your character specialize heavily into combat and have mobs as your sole source of income or you specialize into something else. This disadvantages warrior characters heavily, and your solution of having people become merchants and sell random mob drops doesn't nullify that fact.

I know that I and many other people have restrictions when playing LotC which include work schedules and timezones. Having to actually find other characters when there's about ten people online to sell what minuscule amount of items I've found isn't fun for anyone involved. A miner character who is part of a more common demographic such as those residing in the USA can just dig out resources and then sell them during prime-time.

I'm sure, however, that my opinion will remain unnoticed and unheeded. I support some of these ideas, such as giving races their own exclusive resources, but this is obscene. To quote someone I was in a Skype chat with the other day:

http://gyazo.com/9632d583519ef3231c5e6dc968f15366

[Nononymous 306]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Whitebeard

Change:

Mining Permits

Why I love this change:

(Getting into some specifics)

Reason #1: Back in Aegis, and I remember this with unusual clariity, I bought a iron chestplate, and just the chestplate, for 750 minas and considered it a deal. That's right, a DEAL. My only possibly explanation for this was the Mining Permits. While this did cause quite a bit of complaining and general "butt-hurty-ness," I feel if we had stuck with it, it would have made our economy that much better. People now a days have way too easy of a time getting armor and diamonds, etc. We should be able to dig to a certain extent and have mines that are open to everyone so at least SOME resources are coming in, and have GM's refill the mines every once in a while (not sure how this would be done). We should also have free mining on plots of land obtained through VIP's regardless of the Mining Permits should the idea be implemented.

Reason #2: Items no longer hold any value, what so ever. A while back, and I am not exaggerating this, I gave a stack of diamonds away to my friend for free. A full stack, and there were NO repercussions. None, I was just as well off. I don't know if this has been posted yet or not, but I feel the reintroduction of mining permits could solve a LOT of our problems.

[Agnub 605]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

brettdude

Change:

All of them.

Why I love this change:

I have to say I really like all of the proposed ideas - especially making tax collection easier for nations as timezone conflicts make it really difficult to manually collect taxes and keep track of who actually paid.

In my experience, nations that fail to collect much in taxes have to make up their expenses through other means - which usually results in the state running businesses (like selling mass amounts of bread) that make it more difficult for private business to succeed.

And re-fillable mines like in the good'ole days would be great. Getting a GM to region is hard enough as it is.

[Shorsand 2006]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:Whitebeard

Change:Resource Permits

My concerns or ideas about the Change: Being a miner myself, I've witnessed in the mines that resources are not that plentiful. It usually takes me one to two hours to bring back roughly 12 pieces of coal and maybe 4 pieces of iron. This isn't bad, but iron doesn't sell for much, and coal doesn't sell for anything, leading me to live a poor life.

I understand why you want to make this change, but I think you're down-toning it too much.

[Navin_ 99]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Whitebeard

Change:

Taxes

My concerns or ideas about the Change:

A tax minimum of 5% could be added to all monetary transactions, but where does this money go? Depending on where the player is currently located your 5% would either be transferred to the town owner or removed from the economy completely if the player is not within a city.

I am not a fan of just deleting money from the economy, like the boat system that just throws the money into a fire.

Example: In the wilds, if a man is giving a piece of bread to a traveler for three minas, would the traveler give 2.85 minas (which wont work with emeralds) to the man and put .15 minas in a fire

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Whitebeard

Change:

Taxes

My concerns or ideas about the Change:

Pretty much everything that has already been said. Nations should enforce their own taxes, and being 'taxed' in the wild doesn't make sense.

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Mister Whitebeard

Change:

Races with exclusive resources

Why I love this change:

It's more realistic and will generate lots of fun RP! It should also encourage players to choose occupations that are more appropriate to their race, since an elfin miner won't find much work if he wants to live with his race.

Change:

'Market Day' Events

Reason behind the Change:

I'm not sure if this fits with the rest of these suggestions, but I think having a Market or Fair would help the RP and the economy. I'm not talking about building a market-place, I mean setting up a few hours specifically for people to come together and trade. Like an annual fair.

These kinds of events have been held before, why not make it a regular, scheduled thing? Hold it once a month or more, at different times to accommodate other time-zones. It could take place either on fair grounds near the Temple, or it rotates between cities. Announce when/where the next fair will take place and let people rent out stalls or tents.

[Vrahn 5]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change:

Whitebeard

Change:

Taxes

My concerns or ideas about the Change:

I have to echo what a lot of other people have said about this. Taxing for the sake of being a money sink doesn't seem right to me, players should be forced to devise their own system of taxation, complete with its' loopholes, tax evaders, and all the RP that can come from that. I don't think it will draw people away from towns because towns provide a massive number of benefits, including exposure, protection from mobs/bandits/enemy nations, other facilities close by, more RP, etc.

Further, taxes should all be manual with emeralds, I'm actually really in favour of the emeralds physically existing, it adds so many dynamics to the game as opposed to EFTs.

I think that we could take the money system even further and have player run banks and treasuries, as opposed to the auto-safe one we currently have, it could lead to some very interesting situations, providing another avenue for RP with thieves trying to steal from banks and player's safes, and good folks trying to build safer... safes. ;)

Anyway in summary taxes should be handled ICly with IC interactions and not via a plugin or automatically.

[ek_knight 21]

Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: Whitebeard

Change: Racial Currencies

My concerns or ideas about the Change: The fact is LOTC doesn't have enough players for something like this. Because of the small amount of players you generally have to open up to trade with the whole of asulon to get something that you want. adding in multiple currencies would just confuse things not to mention I do not even know how this could be coded.

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Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: Whitebeard

Change: Automatic taxes

My concerns or ideas about the Change: I feel this really cripples RP. With no way of tracking it, who is to say that your character would decide to pay the tax? Adding on to Megazura's idea perhaps a some sort of plugin could be created where the MC name of a person could be traced to how many minas they put in the chest so that people could pay property taxes.

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Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: Whitebeard

Change: Resource Permits

My concerns or ideas about the Change: I have no problem with the mines, other than that they should be somewhat bigger but I belie that other resources need to scarcer as well. A few solutions would be

- disable bonemeal

- make it take around 4-5 hours for a tree to grow back, 2-3 hours for other plants

- only allow an animal to bred once every elven day

I am sure other solutions could be thought of as well.

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Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: Whitebeard

Change: Making armor/food degrade

My concerns or ideas about the Change: With food the primary problem is that it would simply disturb roleplay to be constantly starving because all of the food is going bad, and there is no shop plugin in order to buy more quickly. with armor it jus doesn't make much sense. I believe someone mentioned the idea of having such a thing not happen when the items are stored in chests and I think that would be a suitable compromise.

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Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: whitebeard

Change: Race specific Resources

Why I love this change: I absolutely love this idea. It would lead to wars/ diplomacy over resources. It has never made much RP sense to me why elves were mining, or ocs creating tree farms (etc).

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Name of the Person who Proposed the Change: Whitebeard

Change: Removing Mina Drops

Why I love this change: It makes much more RP sense. as for those saying it will make warriors out of jobs, remember that you still can kill mobs for drops and also you can get a job as a guard, fending of the mobs.