Your View: Villainy

[osumanduas 1442]

Could we get this posted on the notice board so more people can bring their opinions as well? In a similar place to where all those Admin leave posts are going?

[๖ۣۜ§osa (E.G.I.E.) 520]

THE COMMUNITY HAS NO SAY IN THIS MATTER, IT'S FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE SERVER, AND CURRENTLY THE SERVER POPULATION IS SICK.

 

I'd rather be a sick PvP scrub then a complete arrogant idiot.

[501warhead 1796]

Playtapus says that, honestly, nobody wants bad bad-guy rp, but no one else wants to have to write an essay on why I should be allowed to take some generic action. 

 

I mean, I have a character that isn't a bad person and normally wouldn't do a bad person. However, could that change? Could she face a situation that is unique or pressing that causes her to act outside of her normal nature or make her act 'bad' while she thinks that she is doing something good? Most certainly! That decision could come compulsively. How can I plan for that without making a VA beforehand? If didn't make a VA, and one of these circumstances presents itself, I have to unnaturally rail-road my character in a way that would, honestly, make the RP worse than if I just went ahead and poorly RP'd the action my character was going to take. 

 

 

That is why I do not like them.

 

Also, I understand you want to have a conversation, and I agree that that is wise to do. However, if the overall opinion of the playerbase isn't part of the conversation...then well. 

 

This conversation isn't really about conversating.

 

We already know player opinion. A your view is to see your view, I want to see it from your perspective not just from a bunch of numbers in front of my face; Leowarrior14 has been very helpful albeit not very kind or respectable with his continuous making of polls. I wish they were made with a lighter heart but I'm afraid some players are too upset to attempt to be reasonable which is, oddly, reasonable and I don't fault them for it.

 

As for your concern about roleplaying your character yes, that is the big one that we're attempting to resolve as it would cause some friction.

 

The staff is proving incompetence by removing comments on a your view thread on something they made without informing or asking the player base. Take the heat, if you can't go quit your GM position

 

The comments I removed were summed up by a simple +1 to a post and lacked any meaning at all on this thread. Personally attack me all you want, I'm not going to treat such an attack with anything more than a passing glance. Reasons and logic are what I abide by, give them or get gone. I'm responding to each logical response with a response of my own and considering each comment. This is not a flame thread, this is a discussion.

 

Those raw data points are player opinions, though. A opinion doesn't have to be an essay in reply to this topic: It works fine when you have a clear poll that is neutrally worded.

 

The staff quite clearly proved that they do not care what the players think about this, because if so, it would be removed by now. I'm sorry, the disconnect is just too large.

 

As I said before, I know the numbers. If I did not know the numbers I would have added a poll. I'm not going to make a judgment call so soon because player outcry is not something new and has been known to have occurred during many regimes before ours; I understand opinion and I'm listening but I'm going to take it all in account before a final verdict is made.

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

1. It doesn't matter what the players want, what the players want (because this is most of the players nowadays) is to be PVP hungry scrubs, who want to commit random evils for NO REASON.

 

2. This decision was for the betterment of the server, and to "create" a tier of higher level roleplay, since being a bandit means nothing besides being a PVP hungry scrub, and being a mage just means you're edgy. Magic is non-existant because people who worked hard for it can't use it now. Same goes for VA's.

 

Their characters had an actual reason to commit those evils, while the evils people are comiting are largly based off of OOC interests, and not taken from their characters mind. 

 

THE COMMUNITY HAS NO SAY IN THIS MATTER, IT'S FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE SERVER, AND CURRENTLY THE SERVER POPULATION IS SICK.

 

I used to advocate for the staff listening to the players, because at that time the players "did" know what was best for the server, and it was the staff who were in the wrong. But In this matter the staff are experienced, and want the same thing, which is to return to our roots of being a high quality roleplaying server, and am happy they're not listening to the general consensus of "we don't like it, boo hoo"

The first step to self-moderation is trust, which the GMs have already thrown to the side as "impractical" and "a lost cause".

[argonian 14254]

I'd rather be sick then a complete arrogant idiot.

Watch out, you'll probably get a warning whereas he won't because he supports the staff.

[๖ۣۜ§osa (E.G.I.E.) 520]

Watch out, you'll probably get a warning whereas he won't because he supports the staff.

 

I'm shaking please help

;~;

[argonian 14254]

We already know player opinion. A your view is to see your view, I want to see it from your perspective not just from a bunch of numbers in front of my face; Leowarrior14 has been very helpful albeit not very kind or respectable with his continuous making of polls. I wish they were made with a lighter heart but I'm afraid some players are too upset to attempt to be reasonable which is, oddly, reasonable and I don't fault them for it.

Leo had to make his 2nd poll because his first one was made invalid by the staff and mine didn't have enough questions.

 

 

The comments I removed were summed up by a simple +1 to a post and lacked any meaning at all on this thread. Personally attack me all you want, I'm not going to treat such an attack with anything more than a passing glance. Reasons and logic are what I abide by, give them or get gone. I'm responding to each logical response with a response of my own and considering each comment. This is not a flame thread, this is a discussion.

 

 

As I said before, I know the numbers. If I did not know the numbers I would have added a poll. I'm not going to make a judgment call so soon because player outcry is not something new and has been known to have occurred during many regimes before ours; I understand opinion and I'm listening but I'm going to take it all in account before a final verdict is made.

Next time ask for the views before you make the changes :)

I'm shaking please help

;~;

yeah I forgot that most people don't have to worry about warns. I still have 8 active ones from years ago

[osumanduas 1442]

We already know player opinion. A your view is to see your view, I want to see it from your perspective not just from a bunch of numbers in front of my face; Leowarrior14 has been very helpful albeit not very kind or respectable with his continuous making of polls. I wish they were made with a lighter heart but I'm afraid some players are too upset to attempt to be reasonable which is, oddly, reasonable and I don't fault them for it.

 

 

Change and passion go along side by side. We're being as respectful as we can do be honest, with bad apples on both sides. Debates aren't kind or respectful but they get things done when there are people in the way of progress and overall communal growth.

 

We don't want VAs and very honestly never will. Most sides have been said but I'm sure there are more.

 

 

We already know player opinion. A your view is to see your view, I want to see it from your perspective not just from a bunch of numbers in front of my face; Leowarrior14 has been very helpful albeit not very kind or respectable with his continuous making of polls. I wish they were made with a lighter heart but I'm afraid some players are too upset to attempt to be reasonable which is, oddly, reasonable and I don't fault them for it.

Leo had to make a 2nd poll because his first one was made invalid by the staff and mine didn't have enough questions.

 

 

The comments I removed were summed up by a simple +1 to a post and lacked any meaning at all on this thread. Personally attack me all you want, I'm not going to treat such an attack with anything more than a passing glance. Reasons and logic are what I abide by, give them or get gone. I'm responding to each logical response with a response of my own and considering each comment. This is not a flame thread, this is a discussion.

 

 

As I said before, I know the numbers. If I did not know the numbers I would have added a poll. I'm not going to make a judgment call so soon because player outcry is not something new and has been known to have occurred during many regimes before ours; I understand opinion and I'm listening but I'm going to take it all in account before a final verdict is made.

Next time ask for the views before you make the changes :)

 

 

All passive aggressive notes aside I do agree with James.

[Devland99 180]

 

We already know player opinion. A your view is to see your view, I want to see it from your perspective not just from a bunch of numbers in front of my face; Leowarrior14 has been very helpful albeit not very kind or respectable with his continuous making of polls. I wish they were made with a lighter heart but I'm afraid some players are too upset to attempt to be reasonable which is, oddly, reasonable and I don't fault them for it.

 

 

The comments I removed were summed up by a simple +1 to a post and lacked any meaning at all on this thread. Personally attack me all you want, I'm not going to treat such an attack with anything more than a passing glance. Reasons and logic are what I abide by, give them or get gone. I'm responding to each logical response with a response of my own and considering each comment. This is not a flame thread, this is a discussion.

 

 

As I said before, I know the numbers. If I did not know the numbers I would have added a poll. I'm not going to make a judgment call so soon because player outcry is not something new and has been known to have occurred during many regimes before ours; I understand opinion and I'm listening but I'm going to take it all in account before a final verdict is made.

 

The personal attacks upon you are because your just not listening you simply brush off our dislike, it's pretty obvious no communities are going to accept the VA's and the ones who do are just riding along the waves it seems. The outcry is reason enough to remove it just keep MA but remove VA's. 

 

#OustVA2015

[Space 2335]

 

As I said before, I know the numbers. If I did not know the numbers I would have added a poll. I'm not going to make a judgment call so soon because player outcry is not something new and has been known to have occurred during many regimes before ours; I understand opinion and I'm listening but I'm going to take it all in account before a final verdict is made.

 

 

I cannot think of a single thingy that had this amount of support against but later on was decided to be a good thing.

 

PVP default was 50/50. The poll was really close. It was not 90/10.

 

This is not salvageable. VAs need to go.

 

80 people on during Friday afternoon EST is all you need to see to make you decide that this change is not good.

 

But I'm just repeating myself, w.e.

[River 555]

This server is nothing like it was in it's first 2 or so years. I would happily trade all of our newer players, or changed players for all of our older players in a heart beat.

 

The recent changes to the server in general have nurtured new players into the mentality that they should be entitled to these villinous actions, which they shouldn't. And to those who were here long ago as well, you should all know that when the VA system was implemented, the server wasn't this fucked up. It was a far better place, and the wrong doers, or people who got away with it were few and far. That just means the staff have to learn from that mistake, as to use the BlackList aspect and punish those who don't abide by their agreement in the VA.

 

Though, I would love to Point out Jistuma's post because everything he addressed is also very important to this.

 

I'll correct myself and redirect what I said about most players being sick. There are a great number of people who only rely on banditry, of the lowest level of roleplay, with the lowest level of interest or care for the server. Meanwhile, MOST of the server, a great number of them are actually productive to the servers lifespan and doing good roleplay.

 

It's that minority, or... well I guess it's bigger than a minority, that's poison to the server, and poisinous to new players.

[Space 2335]

 

 

I'm sorry dude, but when you say something like 'I wish the server was only populated by veterans' your points become a lot less valid.

[argonian 14254]

This server is nothing like it was in it's first 2 or so years. I would happily trade all of our newer players, or changed players for all of our older players in a heart beat.

 

The recent changes to the server in general have nurtured new players into the mentality that they should be entitled to these villinous actions, which they shouldn't. And to those who were here long ago as well, you should all know that when the VA system was implemented, the server wasn't this fucked up. It was a far better place, and the wrong doers, or people who got away with it were few and far. That just means the staff have to learn from that mistake, as to use the BlackList aspect and punish those who don't abide by their agreement in the VA.

 

Though, I would love to Point out Jistuma's post because everything he addressed is also very important to this.

 

I'll correct myself and redirect what I said about most players being sick. There are a great number of people who only rely on banditry, of the lowest level of roleplay, with the lowest level of interest or care for the server. Meanwhile, MOST of the server, a great number of them are actually productive to the servers lifespan and doing good roleplay.

 

It's that minority, or... well I guess it's bigger than a minority, that's poison to the server, and poisinous to new players.

The VAs wasn't what made the server better. The Villain Application system was terrible and completely arbitrary. They'd accept one guy with one line answers and no motives and deny the next guy because he needed to expand on his already huge and detailed motives. They didn't look to see if you were a good RPer, they just wanted to see shittons of text with no mistakes for people they disliked and barely anything from people they liked. Terrible villains got through the whole time.

[osumanduas 1442]

I'm sorry dude, but when you say something like 'I wish the server was only populated by veterans' your points become a lot less valid.

[Harri 4815]

 

The ideal was that a common/lesser evil application was intended to be easy, quick, and small. Under that logic I was going to spend the week revamping it, making it simple, or even just removing the need for a lesser evil app from the ground up. I agree, the goal was to moderate roleplay not limit it and some of these will limit roleplay.

 

If you don't remove VA's, then yes please do remove the lesser evil one. It is literally /so/ restricting that the entire server will need to post one for what is considered 'villainous in a lesser manner', as it isn't actually villainous but instead just things that are pretty much needed for your everyday role-play life.