Jonificus 2741 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Im sorry but explain how when most of oren go around Athera going "You believe in creator?" Player- "No" then they are attacked with one emote then pvp defaulted by them, is good villainous rp? "You believe in the creator?" "No, but I do respect those who do." "Good." and then they leave you alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space 2335 Share Posted April 17, 2015 The concern as well was we wanted to introduce some form of validation to villainy roleplay; VAs were the seeming solution to this problem. I still believe with a bit of time it could be fixed although we're beyond what I believe; I will do what is best for the community. The blacklist solves poor villain rp but it does not fix the problem entirely and comes with it's own issues. The /only/ validation anyone needs from roleplay is the fact that they are roleplaying. You are having fun pretending as a character. An application gives no validation. I am genuinely curious as to why you would think that applications would bring validation, or why further validation is needed? I think we need a definitive reason as to why the staff thought that VAs were needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osumanduas 1442 Share Posted April 17, 2015 That's the concern, no? One thing that the VA system did in the past was the players were acutely aware of the rules; in today's server this is not the case and has caused many problems due to a lot of grey areas. There are however several systems which I proposed which go by your logic of 'They aren't guilty of being poor RPers, why make them do an application?' such as the waver system. Despite the proposal of different systems you'd seemingly be in favor of a strict villain system, or something close to it, which most of us disagree with. The Villain blacklist is more of a compromise in my eyes then any application system or anything like it. If we could get a poll up for statistics that'd be gucci too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 555 Share Posted April 17, 2015 +1 Platypus I completly agree with the implementation of the VA system. It's as simple as looking backwards, a time where the server was fully functional and when the server worked perfectly in regards to Roleplaying. The VA system worked very, very well in Aegis, Asulon, and the start of 3.0. It used to actually be fun, being robbed, or partcipating in a rebellion, or a riot. The server has turned into a "*Pulls sword out "Your money, or your life!"*" kind of server, where most roleplay (That's seen) isn't held at a high quality, isn't "Fun", and is repetative, while abusing the default system. The only other solution, is to remove road side plots. I'm guessing 95% of this roleplay occurs on the main road. As I said, looking back to a time where every thing worked perfectly in regards to Roleplaying, just think of Asulon. Roadside plots didn't exist, and then they started implementing them, they were 3x5 plots for a tiny shop, which saw A LOT of roleplay. It's come to the point, where the line between what players want, and what's good for the server is stressed, and players don't know what's good for the server in terms of upholding a value to good RP. I commend the staff for implementing the VAT and MAT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
501warhead 1796 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 The /only/ validation anyone needs from roleplay is the fact that they are roleplaying. You are having fun pretending as a character. An application gives no validation. I am genuinely curious as to why you would think that applications would bring validation, or why further validation is needed? I think we need a definitive reason as to why the staff thought that VAs were needed. What do you expect me to say? We as staff get together and speak quite a bit on issues of the server; This wasn't an overnight decision. This was something being discussed since VAs were removed as they were only removed as a trial as I accurately remember. Despite the proposal of different systems you'd seemingly be in favor of a strict villain system, or something close to it, which most of us disagree with. The Villain blacklist is more of a compromise in my eyes then any application system or anything like it. If we could get a poll up for statistics that'd be gucci too I did not do a poll because I wished for concrete conversation and not some numbers game where players don't read and press a button because they're upset; Opinions of players matter more than raw data in this scenario. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destroyer_Bravo 1054 Share Posted April 17, 2015 This reminds me of the Incarna release for EVE Everyone wanted one thing for the game, but CCP wastes time with something else. CCP didn't give that and instead gave the exact OPPOSITE of the desired thing CCP releases a statement that fans the flames (lol Greed is Good Icelandic dwarves) Everyone shoots a statue in protest ad nauseum. And hopefully... CCP did a total 180 and rethinks their idea entirely. LotC is not a democracy but it is a business. And, a business with no clientele never succeeded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osumanduas 1442 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Players know the value of their own RP. +1 Platypus I completly agree with the implementation of the VA system. It's as simple as looking backwards, a time where the server was fully functional and when the server worked perfectly in regards to Roleplaying. The VA system worked very, very well in Aegis, Asulon, and the start of 3.0. It used to actually be fun, being robbed, or partcipating in a rebellion, or a riot. The server has turned into a "*Pulls sword out "Your money, or your life!"*" kind of server, where most roleplay (That's seen) isn't held at a high quality, isn't "Fun", and is repetative, while abusing the default system. The only other solution, is to remove road side plots. I'm guessing 95% of this roleplay occurs on the main road. As I said, looking back to a time where every thing worked perfectly in regards to Roleplaying, just think of Asulon. Roadside plots didn't exist, and then they started implementing them, they were 3x5 plots for a tiny shop, which saw A LOT of roleplay. It's come to the point, where the line between what players want, and what's good for the server is stressed, and players don't know what's good for the server in terms of upholding a value to good RP. I commend the staff for implementing the VAT and MAT. Any troll can make an application, I seem to remember lots of trolls, (I.E sortedjarhead, ext) who got in despite any sort of application, and if the issue is preventing them the blacklist that we had seems legitimately the only way to actually prevent it, as trolls were still present during all those periods and to be truthful. Nothings ever been perfect on the server. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 14254 Share Posted April 17, 2015 +1 Platypus I completly agree with the implementation of the VA system. It's as simple as looking backwards, a time where the server was fully functional and when the server worked perfectly in regards to Roleplaying. The VA system worked very, very well in Aegis, Asulon, and the start of 3.0. It used to actually be fun, being robbed, or partcipating in a rebellion, or a riot. The server has turned into a "*Pulls sword out "Your money, or your life!"*" kind of server, where most roleplay (That's seen) isn't held at a high quality, isn't "Fun", and is repetative, while abusing the default system. The only other solution, is to remove road side plots. I'm guessing 95% of this roleplay occurs on the main road. As I said, looking back to a time where every thing worked perfectly in regards to Roleplaying, just think of Asulon. Roadside plots didn't exist, and then they started implementing them, they were 3x5 plots for a tiny shop, which saw A LOT of roleplay. It's come to the point, where the line between what players want, and what's good for the server is stressed, and players don't know what's good for the server in terms of upholding a value to good RP. I commend the staff for implementing the VAT and MAT. VAs didn't work well in Aegis at all. People waited at least weeks and often months to get accepted. The VA system was restrictive and annoying. The only reason Aegis needed VAs was because the quality of RP was a lot lower in early Aegis(June-end of August) because the vast majority of us were new to RP'ing and the app was easy to get past. We now have a far higher standard of RP than early Aegis and that was one of the reasons for the VA being removed in the first place. What do you expect me to say? We as staff get together and speak quite a bit on issues of the server; This wasn't an overnight decision. This was something being discussed since VAs were removed as they were only removed as a trial as I accurately remember. I did not do a poll because I wished for concrete conversation and not some numbers game where players don't read and press a button because they're upset; Opinions of players matter more than raw data in this scenario. The opinions of players is what causes them to vote one way or another. Also players are much more likely to vote than make a post. So polls are much more representative of the opinions of the players than poll-less threads. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaezae 1098 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Playtapus says that, honestly, nobody wants bad bad-guy rp, but no one else wants to have to write an essay on why I should be allowed to take some generic action. I mean, I have a character that isn't a bad person and normally wouldn't do a bad person. However, could that change? Could she face a situation that is unique or pressing that causes her to act outside of her normal nature or make her act 'bad' while she thinks that she is doing something good? Most certainly! That decision could come compulsively. How can I plan for that without making a VA beforehand? If didn't make a VA, and one of these circumstances presents itself, I have to unnaturally rail-road my character in a way that would, honestly, make the RP worse than if I just went ahead and poorly RP'd the action my character was going to take. That is why I do not like them. Also, I understand you want to have a conversation, and I agree that that is wise to do. However, if the overall opinion of the playerbase isn't part of the conversation...then well. This conversation isn't really about conversating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heff 2460 Share Posted April 17, 2015 The staff is proving incompetence by removing comments on a your view thread on something they made without informing or asking the player base. Take the heat, if you can't go quit your GM position Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space 2335 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I did not do a poll because I wished for concrete conversation and not some numbers game where players don't read and press a button because they're upset; Opinions of players matter more than raw data in this scenario. Those raw data points are player opinions, though. A opinion doesn't have to be an essay in reply to this topic: It works fine when you have a clear poll that is neutrally worded. The staff quite clearly proved that they do not care what the players think about this, because if so, it would be removed by now. I'm sorry, the disconnect is just too large. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 555 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I do however, the specific rules might have to be looked over in order to ensure that a player can defend himself, or perform certain actions "AGAINST" villains who have wronged them, or given enough justification to perform certain actions. It is not villinous for a City guard to kill bandits when provoked, it isn't villinous to torture a spy from another nation, caught on your national grounds in roleplay, it may be a step of evil, but not villinous. The Rules should be looked at in order to make sure things of that nature are allowed by players, so they're given some freedom in their daily rp against villains, and players can better deal with villains. But so that villains just keep doing villinous roleplay for little to no reason, or consequences if there is no consequence to their actions. Another system should be implemented onto the server to make sure Platypus's are punished properly. I'd say, the next great, disputable step everyone would hate but that'd be great for the server is the ability to perma kill much more easily! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osumanduas 1442 Share Posted April 17, 2015 This was something being discussed since VAs were removed as they were only removed as a trial as I accurately remember. Honestly this shouldn't have been being discussed for such a long time then. Its clearly more than a trial now, most of us love it and whatever happens now it will probably always be loved. Besides, there are more pressing matters like Nexus Regions and WC which are almost always on the communities minds. ((qq R.I.P my grammar on issues i'm passionate about, god bless edit.)) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan_Barnett36 1564 Share Posted April 17, 2015 What do you expect me to say? We as staff get together and speak quite a bit on issues of the server; This wasn't an overnight decision. This was something being discussed since VAs were removed as they were only removed as a trial as I accurately remember. I did not do a poll because I wished for concrete conversation and not some numbers game where players don't read and press a button because they're upset; Opinions of players matter more than raw data in this scenario. So you were doing trialing it for 1.5 years? Ok yeah. Also to the recent screenshot I recieved... you're very approachable, kind and cooperative. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devland99 180 Share Posted April 17, 2015 To sum up on how most of the community feels You made a bad call on VA's, it's very obvious no one wants them but for some reason you keep trying to defend something no one wants. Why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.png.4e5370fc69f142d96a905e477cd5dd97.png)
Recommended Posts