[Completed]Conflict Rules and the issues they present.

[Temp 2006]

So, the rules we currently have which can be found here have some pretty hefty issues when put into practice.

For starters, the conflict rules flatly state, “As long as you’ve got 3 people or less, you’re good to go! You don’t need to request any staff supervision, check any special cooldowns, or buy any custom tools. If you can run or jump your way in, you’re in! The only requirement is roleplay itself. Know why your character is there and what their goal is.”

This directly conflicts with the server rules found here.

The verbatim quote is as follows, “§5.15     If three or more people enter a city with the intent to disrupt/cause trouble, it classifies as a raid.”

Another major issue I have is from the conflict rules which state, “Poor roleplay or abrasive and inflammatory behaviour may lead upset players to report you for a conflict blacklist. Together, we write a cooperative story based in mutual respect—even if our characters violently disagree. Their reality may be one of steel and sorcery, but we are just writers having a good time—the consequences for our characters are wildly different from ours which are, at most, mild disappointment.”

This doesn’t make the effort to cover poor victim RP. At all. It’s extremely common behavior for players to simply run from potentially negative RP that they assume their character will be defeated in. Essentially nothing keeps players from just hard bailing on RP and if a player comes across another that they’re at war with, I’m seeing the routine victim excuse of, “Copy & Pasted emotes!” What the hell does this even mean? If someone pre-emotes because they know the other side is going to bail the moment they get close, they’re to be punished. Do the staff actually expect the attackers to sit somewhere for 10 – 30 seconds typing out a meaningful emote that precise moment?

I suggest changing this to cover both sides of the field and not just the attacker. As much as I understand and deal with sub-par villainy, if there’s any RP prior to PvP at all, It’s flawed to direct attentions in one direction. I strongly suggest going the “As fair as the situation permits at that given moment,” route instead of playing into the favor of either side.


The Good-Spirit Clause.

Whilst I understand this and the desire to press toward this, it’s not possible with the playerbase we have present.

What’s stated is, “Wars are roleplay events involving the characters of two or more nations. Both sides cooperate in good-spirit out-of-character to write a gripping and meaningful story in-character. As stated in our community guidelines, there is no path to “victory”. 

Together, we weave an epic tale involving hundreds of unique characters. Characters with a family to protect, a legacy to uphold, and personal ambitions, fears, and fascinations.”

Unfortunately, I’ve never seen this happen. The defender typically maintains the ‘hero’ persona with little to no regard for the IC situation and legitimate odds. People would rather outright leave than roleplay on the defensive and faltering leg. Those that wish to remain often fall back into the rules of the server and claim that they’re being OOCly targeted, that the RP around the encounter was bad, etc etc etc. Alongside this, there’s little to no incentive for leaders to press for agreeable terms to defend their citizens and quickly bring the conflict to a close.

Once again the best that we can do, at least from my perspective is assess the IC logic of the encounter against set requirements that are deemed as ‘fair’ as the server can allow. Rules and how they apply should never be subjective. Ever.

Before even looking further, it’d be decent to get these talking points weighed on.

[ScreamingDingo 16791]

now I'm going to look like a copy-cat and I can't even **** on telanir because you made the post first ?

[Temp 2006]

16 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said:

now I'm going to look like a copy-cat and I can't even **** on telanir because you made the post first ?

Lean on Manager status and delete this then.

[Ford 1990]

shut up old man, this is the new LotC 

 

if you dont like it, then leave the server. you’re either with us or against us!

[Islamadon 4425]

Status man bad.

[Taketheshot 3834]

[frill 2276]

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Unfortunately, I’ve never seen this happen. The defender typically maintains the ‘hero’ persona with little to no regard for the IC situation and legitimate odds. People would rather outright leave than roleplay on the defensive and faltering leg. Those that wish to remain often fall back into the rules of the server and claim that they’re being OOCly targeted, that the RP around the encounter was bad, etc etc etc. Alongside this, there’s little to no incentive for leaders to press for agreeable terms to defend their citizens and quickly bring the conflict to a close.

 

If both parties refused to work together before, during or after a conflict arises then they’re throwing their right to cry about rule-lawyer or mala fides pvp clicks into the flames. The onus is meant to be on both parties to create the atmosphere, and if one is acting so aggrieved in so far as wanting to lawyer and manipulate the rules in place to protect them to be a weapon against the other party, that needs to be nipped in the bud by whichever staff-member is handling the tickets instead of being enabled by them. There should be no incentive for leaders to press for agreeable terms; the purpose of the OOC discussion is to define a via media in which both parties would want to step into conflict, and these terms need to be reached without any carrot-stick artifice beyond having something fun to rp.

 

The spirit of direct conquest and RP bulldozing still remains, as we’ve seen in all of the previous wars that have crept up since the reveal of the new wars, and it’s a spirit that means that there is no room for negotiation between either party because they see no “roleplay reason” to move the terms, consequences et al. into a situation where the conflict would be seen as an enjoyable mutual enterprise for the people behind the screen.

 

When people’re threatening to void wars because the victim-group don’t consent to full, unabated, steamrolling, PRO-losing conquest, there’s a clear lack of “let’s just have fun roleplaying this out” from anyone involved.

 

2 hours ago, Temp said:

Once again the best that we can do, at least from my perspective is assess the IC logic of the encounter against set requirements that are deemed as ‘fair’ as the server can allow.

 

The rule-sets are for people who take pretend knight roleplay less seriously, and can flit through IC logic with a wink knowing that they’re not causing an OOC conflict by starting an IC one. With the factionalism and unabated vitriol that people throw at each-other at the national level, it’s very hard to get this subtle smudging of role-play circumstances to keep people enjoying things on both sides. Instead, you have people mobbing Nation Leaders in hour-long discord calls where they state that they demand to have absolute OOC control of a settlement so it’s no longer a “threat in roleplay”, and that it’s either handing over the keys OOC or being bulldozed.

 

The system is idealised, and would work well, for a different set of people. The staff and players are relatively incapable  of following the new rules if an issue comes up every three days from a rule-set that is meant to fuel mutual, respectful conflict for the sake of jus’ fun RP :3c and prevent conquest bulldozing of entire nations.

[nevy40 210]

Unfortunately everyone wants to be the hero.

Everyone wants to be the person who says

”Heh, nice try kid. You made me use 5% of my power” in the face of an enemy. However the reality of it is, not everyone can be a hero or someone special.

 

Most of the people who complain about RP that involves combat usually:

1. Do not accurately value their lives. I’ve seen people insult their “enemies” and even threaten them when they’re surrounded by a much larger force. 
2. Hide behind the OOC rules to protect their characters. Yesterday we warned the Illyrians of an imminent attack and offered them asylum. You know what we were told in RP? That the sky god would protect them, it’s not a big deal, and all their characters casually not worrying. All because they thought the raid rules were going to keep them alive. (A couple minutes later they were all killed and started complaining when they got raided by theee dwarves....)
3. Power game. I’ve seen people emote being unphased by a hit to the back of the head by a flanged mace, someone just popping a squat to avoid a sword strike because they apparently heard it, and people just emoting *dodges* constantly. When you do things like that, no one wants to CRP.     

Theres two sides to this issue. Those complaining about how this is “Bad serve reeee you PvP me!!” need to step back and realize that they are contributing to the problem. 

 

Basically I agree with this guy. The rules are restricting and stifle role-play growth. People should just stop thinking they’re unkillable and RP realistically. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by nevy40

[Burnsider 4542]

It's as simple as this: players need to realize that losing can sometimes be the best, most rewarding, and engaging story. If good story is made, neither side loses. Both sides win. People need to stop thinking of this as a board game where one person wins and everyone else loses, but rather like writing a book with a bunch of people. If you finish the story and it's good enough to be read by others and enjoyed, then everyone wins. 

[Vermy 1346]

meanie

[JokerLow 1189]

I do not consent to this raid

[Haseroth 949]

lord of the craft? more like lord of the carebears hah gottem :*

[𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖚𝖘𝖍 2236]

10 hours ago, Temp said:

Both sides cooperate in good-spirit out-of-character to write a gripping and meaningful story in-character.

 

In all honesty with LoTC wars this has hardly been the case. It is more dynamic than simply writing a story and has always hinged on the unexpected. i don’t think it’s exactly the player’s place to be the story teller on the server when there is a whole staff team dedicated to that. 

 

imagine no villainy at Cloud Temple and yet as you exit are still hit hard with combat rules even along a road that might be considered the wilderness, such as the 3-bandit rule.

 

In my time playing the server I have come to realize it prioritizes protecting role-play so much now that it really kills any feel for adventure, or risk, or ultimately grief. Grief was one of the main factors of minecraft itself and i agree it sucks but it is crucial for a story to be told. I think there of course must be a place of sanctuary, but high stakes and action packed events are what drive LoTC with no doubt. There is an average of 110 players but on the day of a war claim the server is completely capped off.

[Burnsider 4542]

1 hour ago, Stargush said:

i don’t think it’s exactly the player’s place to be the story teller on the server when there is a whole staff team dedicated to that. 

 

I'm not going to mince words to be nice here. This is 100% completely, totally and unreservedly wrong! This is an RP server. We are all storytellers here, one and all. Certainly, staff has more tools to tell stories, but at the end of the day, each and every one of us is responsible for creating and maintaining the story here. "We are the music maker; And we are the dreamers of dreams."

 

To abandon or disregard that idea is to say that you are okay with making your and other's stories bad. It is wrong to do so. And it is selfish. And, frankly, it's ignorant. There's an obligation inherent in being a member of an RP server like this, and it's why you need to apply. 

[𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖚𝖘𝖍 2236]

26 minutes ago, Burnsider said:

 

I'm not going to mince words to be nice here. This is 100% completely, totally and unreservedly wrong! This is an RP server. We are all storytellers here, one and all. Certainly, staff has more tools to tell stories, but at the end of the day, each and every one of us is responsible for creating and maintaining the story here. "We are the music maker; And we are the dreamers of dreams."

 

To abandon or disregard that idea is to say that you are okay with making your and other's stories bad. It is wrong to do so. And it is selfish. And, frankly, it's ignorant. There's an obligation inherent in being a member of an RP server like this, and it's why you need to apply. 

I didn’t say that we don’t make our own stories. What I said was in regards to creating stories in war-claims and that in war the story made is more dynamic rather than attempting to cooperate with the opposing side to write out a meta on how they would pursue the war. Our stories are forged by ourselves but are influenced by the greater stories created by the staff, but it is very lacking especially this map. Clearly, if you had seen my forum profile you’d know the many stories I have created and told. RP is always going to be a crucial role to lead up to the action packed events, but it doesn’t mean nerfing pvp and creating unnecessary combat rules is the answer to protect RP when it is clearly what gives the server most of its activity.