Your View - Firearms on LotC

[Arafel 107]

So I’m noticing that there are those who want 13^th and 14^th century firearms because they are compatible with the “medieval fantasy” theme of the server and expand upon the setting in new and interesting ways, and then there’s those who think they’re going to be getting muskets from the 18^th century and do firing lines.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Ciaran

[Qaz_The_Great 1189]

6 minutes ago, ThatFunkyBunch said:

Humans do not need access to fire arms. The fact that these human players are so actively pushing for this means they want an edge in CRP which is kind gay tbh. I love science. But, for the sake of RP and not making power gaming CRP even worse. No guns

Agreed.

[argonian 12836]

2 minutes ago, Ciaran said:

So I’m noticing that there are those who want 13^th and 14^th century firearms because they are compatible with the “medieval fantasy” theme of the server and expand upon the setting in new and interesting ways, and then there’s those who think they’re going to be getting muskets from the 18^th century and do firing lines.

not really a contradiction that necessarily matters – you’re never going to be doing large battles in CRP anyway, so firing lines aren’t really gonna be a thing.

 

as for pvp, it’s just whatever’s possibly with a crossbow item. 

[Man of Respect 5430]

if guns are implemented why not also add tanks and helicopters?

[Abyssus 486]

i don’t really have an opinion on adding firearms, don’t really think it makes a difference one way or the other

 

but what i can say is i have actually fired a musket in real life, and it is pretty complicated and can very easily go wrong, not to mention the bullets are pretty much chunks of leads that half the time break up in the air before they even hit their target, and you can also be a foot in front of your target and you would still not hit it

 

not to mention, no they wouldn’t be able to penetrate through armor, they barely got through the paper target i was shooting at, granted it was at the end of a shooting range

 

food for thought, i think they’ll work fine if people roleplay what terrible firearms they actually are

[Qaz_The_Great 1189]

4 minutes ago, TheAlphaMoist said:

This is a minecraft server set in a different world than our own. The world of LOTC is flat, space isn’t real, and giant unknowable monsters eat deities for breakfast. The laws of physics have already been bent to a drastic degree, almost as if they really don’t behave the same way on LOTC as IRL. If you decide to over think things and want to be upset because some math isn’t right, that’s your choice, man. We have walking cat people ffs.

Cognitive dissonance must be accounted for. I can immerse myself in magic, I can immerse myself in interesting sword duels, and I can’t find myself equating a crossbow to a musket because one is powered by an actual explosion and tears through bone and metal and the other is a bow but with better range and more accessible to the untrained.

 

Just now, Man of Respect said:

if guns are implemented why not also add tanks and helicopters?

If we go off the logic of, “We’ll just make it make sense.” you’re right.

1 minute ago, Abyssus said:

not to mention, no they wouldn’t be able to penetrate through armor

Simply wrong.

 

2 minutes ago, Abyssus said:

but what i can say is i have actually fired a musket in real life, and it is pretty complicated and can very easily go wrong, not to mention the bullets are pretty much chunks of leads that half the time break up in the air before they even hit their target, and you can also be a foot in front of your target and you would still not hit it

We’re talking about well trained troops using these, so the quality of weapon and the quality of the user must be accounted for. I get what you mean but you’re say it as if it wasn’t going to be used by 3-6 dudes who stand in a firing line.

[argonian 12836]

2 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

Cognitive dissonance must be accounted for. I can immerse myself in magic, I can immerse myself in interesting sword duels, and I can’t find myself equating a crossbow to a musket because one is powered by an actual explosion and tears through bone and metal and the other is a bow but with better range and more accessible to the untrained.

literally just “the explosion is a bit less strong than irl so the force isn’t strong enough to punch through armour”

 

if you’re concerned about the exact bloody mathematics of it, then please for your own sake do not look into LOTC Flat Earth Theory. your immersion might be irreparably destroyed 

[EmbryoGod 816]

As a side note I’m one of the people primarily responsible for assisting with the Lore we were presenting for the loremag and I’d like it noted I’m a certified Range Safety Officer and helped teach people on a range for six months of my life I think I’m at least somewhat qualified to discuss firearms, their manufacture, and their use.

 

(Take a lil bit of offense to the person saying people repping for the firearms don’t know how to manipulate them)

[Abyssus 486]

4 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

We’re talking about well trained troops using these, so the quality of weapon and the quality of the user must be accounted for. I get what you mean but you’re say it as if it wasn’t going to be used by 3-6 dudes who stand in a firing line.

i was speaking in general if someone was just running around using one, which is going to happen, of course firing lines are extremely effective because chances are at least one of those muskets fired will hit their target,  it’s important people are aware they are really not good firearms though

[RoamingRonin 619]

6 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

I can’t conced the ALL aspects point because I’ve fired nearly all types of firearms (Brown Bess would be the closest thing I can relate to this). Modern crossbows are also not comparable to old crossbows just as a compound bow isn’t comparable to an old bow.

That first sentence means nothing to the argument, and the second sentence makes no sense. Since crossbows and bows are pretty relatively unchanged (as in, the basic concept of the weapon to begin with). Sure, we’ve added stronger materials, but they still use basically the same mechanisms. To add to that, bows from the olden days are CERTAINLY comparable to the bows of today, since people still actively use longbows and such for hunting. Not everyone is restricted to a compound bow, and each weapon has advantages and disadvantages to the other. 

[ScreamingDingo 16792]

10 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

Cognitive dissonance must be accounted for. I can immerse myself in magic, I can immerse myself in interesting sword duels, and I can’t find myself equating a crossbow to a musket because one is powered by an actual explosion and tears through bone and metal and the other is a bow but with better range and more accessible to the untrained.

 

If we go off the logic of, “We’ll just make it make sense.” you’re right.

If you can't get over your preconceived notions of cognitive dissonance, then why even roleplay at all. The entire point is to essentially abandon the rules of reality and immerse yourself in that said universe.

 

We control everything about the LotC universe, written in lore and controlled by staff. Will it take some time for players to realise they aren't just ak-47s mentally, yes. But it is something that you can't use to completely deconstruct how things function. Lore is made to just “have it make sense”, it's why we have all these things implemented and put in place.

 

My immersion is broken when I walk into different settlements and modern lingo is not punished but encouraged, my immersion is broken when an infertile race that should be focused on persevering and gaining more kids is filled with open homosexuals that don't procreate. There are many things I personally don't agree with that should be stopped, but they aren't because the playerbase should be able to have their own facets of roleplay. It's the idea that restricting guns is of that same ideal of stopping other people's roleplay OOC'ly because you dislike it. If guns are implemented, then I'm sure racial variations and different aesthetics can be applied to nations that want it. Otherwise they can use bows, magic or whatever things they want to

 

It's either a blanket rule, you allow nations to roleplay what they want or you don't and you restrict them heavily. We can't pick and choose because humans are ostracised for doing game of thrones roleplay for the last four years, then are ostracised because they want innovations to reflect over 200 years of eventual progression and roleplay. It's just silly

 

[AlphaMoist 1707]

1 minute ago, argonian said:

LOTC Flat Earth Theory

Not a theory btw the world is literally an infinite disk with two habitable sides. We’ve lived on both sides. Also, stars are just the corpses of aengudaemons. “Muskets have to be what they are irl” is a pretty fallible argument that falls apart when you take a step back and actually look at what LOTC is.

 

6 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

If we go off the logic of, “We’ll just make it make sense.” you’re right.

Tanks and helicopters are a far cry different from a metal barrel that shoots small metal balls.

 

8 minutes ago, Qaz_The_Great said:

I get what you mean but you’re say it as if it wasn’t going to be used by 3-6 dudes who stand in a firing line.

People do this with crossbows and normal bows already. Wouldn’t be shocked to hear of an arcanism firing line either.

 

At the end of the day, the bottom line is that lore is what lore is written to be. If you created a mechanism that was formed out of tree bark that shot sweet peas and called it a musket, then that’s what a musket would be irply. It does not matter if you’ve fired a gun irl, if you’ve even seen a gun irl. Lore controls what something is, not irl. No argument you can make will supersede this.

 

There’s nothing wrong with not liking guns or not wanting guns on the server just because they aren’t your cup of tea. Just say that, though. Making up arguments that aren’t even related to the server, aka every single “but irl” argument, isn’t going to do you any good. 

 

Also, believe it or not, if guns went horribly sour like everyone says they will, then we would take them away. Simple as that. I don’t see the issue in at least giving this a try. If it all fucks up and goes to ****, you get to gloat and say “I told you so”. If it all goes well, hooray, now a decent portion of the playerbase will be happy and finally get what they’ve asked for for years. There’s no harm in just trying.  

[calculusdesola 1658]

7 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said:

It's either a blanket rule, you allow nations to roleplay what they want or you don't and you restrict them heavily. We can't pick and choose because humans are ostracised for doing game of thrones roleplay for the last four years, then are ostracised because they want innovations to reflect over 200 years of eventual progression and roleplay. It's just silly

 

 

Well said. I feel like a significant portion of LOTC takes the activity and roleplay contribution of Oren and Humans for granted, and always has.

[Unwillingly 11106]

guns wont add anything new to RP (other than aesthetic or sm ****) if its as easily accessible as bows and crossbows are right now

on the other hand if its something super restricted among players you’ll get these ppl who go “HRUHRHUU WHERES MY GUN AT HURHUR LT RESTRICTING RP AGAIN RRUHRHURHUR” 

[Orlanth 3525]

No