KRUGMAR V. ELYSIUM

[itdontmatta 7192]

@DrunkPapaBear @Suicidium The field battle will take place between tile 45/49 (if I can squeeze 49). The war claim is planned for Sunday, April 24th. Are we good for 3PM EST?

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

Sounds good, would find it better to fight in an open field or something, not the cursed jungle of the west.

[Suicidium 1295]

10 hours ago, itdontmatta said:

@DrunkPapaBear @Suicidium The field battle will take place between tile 45/49 (if I can squeeze 49). The war claim is planned for Sunday, April 24th. Are we good for 3PM EST?

Hiya! 

The warclaim being on a Sunday will be an atrocious timing significantly due to the large amounts of ANZAC and Asian players in the community as it will be on a Monday morning for them. 

I will ask for the warclaim - field battle to be scheduled on the 29th or 30th(Friday & Saturday) at 6 or 7PM EST?

 

@DrunkPapaBear
 

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

6 pm est is too late and usually the warclaims are earlier, giving a chance for the euro peeps to come and have fun. I'm good with the 24th 3 pm est, can even try to move it to 2 pm est or 4 pm est if needed.

Orcs will never ask another orc are moderation to loose their Friday night to oversee a warclaim. We don't want to delay the war any longer and that's why the 24th is a good date.

Edited April 17, 2022 by DrunkPapaBear

[Suicidium 1295]

4 hours ago, DrunkPapaBear said:

6 pm est is too late and usually the warclaims are earlier, giving a chance for the euro peeps to come and have fun. I'm good with the 24th 3 pm est, can even try to move it to 2 pm est or 4 pm est if needed.

Orcs will never ask another orc are moderation to loose their Friday night to oversee a warclaim. We don't want to delay the war any longer and that's why the 24th is a good date.

Orthodox Easter falls on the 24th, its a holiday that has been highlighted by some in my community. 6pm EST is midnight for Central European Time (CET) so I do understand your concerns, we can shift it to 5PM EST perhaps to accomodate more of the EU playerbases for our community. 

We can negotiate on the time a bit more, is 5pm EST doable to iterate again? We have quite a few asia/pacific players especially in leadership. Furthermore as stated before Sundays are just a non starter. All of our Asia Pacific player can't make Sundays as that is their monday morning and people have lives and things to do like work. I understand if Fridays people want free so why don't we look at Saturday the 30th at 5 pm EST?

I'd iterate the 29th or 30th timeframe, it is strenuous and difficult for my community for the literal next week. A two week time period is ordinary, hope we can reach accords! 

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

Many orcs are reaching finals season in the upcoming weeks. The longer we delay this skirmish, the longer the war is prolonged, and more conflicts will occur because of this. The warclaim will be next weekend because if not, it will have to be in three weeks, because of the Oren warclaim on the 30th, don’t think mods want to do 2 warclaims the same day/weekend.

 

5 pm is still terrible for the GMT community and EST community, which could span hours depending on how the skirmish goes. If they are any delays like previous warclaims, we would be looking at a 6 pm est start time or close to midnight for gmt.

 

We wished to give the community over a one week notice, which is why this warclaim was posted on Friday. We understand your concerns but a majority of lotc is est and gmt. Even our own players from near Oceania are not interested in this time.

 

I will stay with april 24th at 3 pm est, with the possibility of moving it to 2 pm est or 4 pm est.

[Suicidium 1295]

36 minutes ago, DrunkPapaBear said:

Many orcs are reaching finals season in the upcoming weeks. The longer we delay this skirmish, the longer the war is prolonged, and more conflicts will occur because of this. The warclaim will be next weekend because if not, it will have to be in three weeks, because of the Oren warclaim on the 30th, don’t think mods want to do 2 warclaims the same day/weekend.

 

5 pm is still terrible for the GMT community and EST community, which could span hours depending on how the skirmish goes. If they are any delays like previous warclaims, we would be looking at a 6 pm est start time or close to midnight for gmt.

 

We wished to give the community over a one week notice, which is why this warclaim was posted on Friday. We understand your concerns but a majority of lotc is est and gmt. Even our own players from near Oceania are not interested in this time.

 

I will stay with april 24th at 3 pm est, with the possibility of moving it to 2 pm est or 4 pm est.

 

For the timing I agree with your point and I am listening to the concerns you have for it but also worry about the Asia/Pacific players with such an early time. I know GMT is a big part of your community, it is ours as well, but so is our Asia/Pacific players. So we can... try for 4pm-5pm EST at the earliest, moving the time upwards? 

I'd iterate the 29th or 30th timeframe however, the proposed April 24th is disagreeable for me and many of my leaders alongside me have already scheduled irl obligations to detail even my own person having commitments and obligations running through this period so your preface is a shared concern as I am far away from home to be with loved ones and handling work. 

Quick minute edit: Grammar mistake as I am on phone

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

I accept the proposal of 4 pm est. I will not be present on the 24th, just like a few person in our leadership, this is why you have other people that you trust in the community.

Warclaim april 24th at 4 pm est is acceptable.

[Suicidium 1295]

14 hours ago, DrunkPapaBear said:

I accept the proposal of 4 pm est. I will not be present on the 24th, just like a few person in our leadership, this is why you have other people that you trust in the community.

Warclaim april 24th at 4 pm est is acceptable.

 

Alright we agreed on 4pm EST. But Sundays are unacceptable and its objectively worst than the reasons cited for the Friday proposal I gave, it must be a Saturday. This coming weekend is especially bad, which is why I have presented Saturday the 30th especially now that the Oren Civil war has been decided which had the similarly fair warclaim arrangements for both sides. 

 

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

We can do this coming Saturday, the 23th at either 3 pm or 4 pm. If this does not work, Elysium can forfeit the skirmish and we can skip directly to the siege on the 30th.

We made sure to give a one week notice so that the warclaim could take place the next weekend, not loosing anytime due to finals arriving soon.

We’ll also add the custom proposal that mercenaries on both sides, should not add any cost to the warclaim, as the time we now chose (Saturday april 23th 3/4 pm est) doesn’t work for a lot of orcs.

Edited April 18, 2022 by DrunkPapaBear

[Suicidium 1295]

3 hours ago, DrunkPapaBear said:

We can do this coming Saturday, the 23th at either 3 pm or 4 pm. If this does not work, Elysium can forfeit the skirmish and we can skip directly to the siege on the 30th.

We made sure to give a one week notice so that the warclaim could take place the next weekend, not loosing anytime due to finals arriving soon.

We’ll also add the custom proposal that mercenaries on both sides, should not add any cost to the warclaim, as the time we now chose (Saturday april 23th 3/4 pm est) doesn’t work for a lot of orcs.

The 30th of April(Saturday) will remain to be the most fair for both sides, with the war team having seemingly accepted the warclaim on the night of the 17th. I'd revert and iterate to the circumstances freeing the 30th of April timeframe.  

The proposals of forfeiting and the custom proposal is declined. 
 

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

The warclaim was set for april 24th at 3 pm est. We are the ones attacking so it would not make any sense if we waited two years after declaring war to actually attack irply. This weekend was also chosen because we think of the majority of lotc players who will soon enter finals, as I stated multiple times. 
The choice you have is not between this weekend or the one after, it is between Saturday the 23th or Sunday the 24th. Even thought of putting it one hour later to accomodate the nation being attacked. 
The warclaim will be april 24th 3 pm est with the possibility of doing it the day before, if it suits better moderation who will oversee it.

I think we will need moderation to select the date as Elysium won’t be flexible. 
 

Tldr : Skirmish will be on the 24th, siege will be on the first day of may.

[Suicidium 1295]

16 minutes ago, DrunkPapaBear said:

The warclaim was set for april 24th at 3 pm est. We are the ones attacking so it would not make any sense if we waited two years after declaring war to actually attack irply. This weekend was also chosen because we think of the majority of lotc players who will soon enter finals, as I stated multiple times. 
The choice you have is not between this weekend or the one after, it is between Saturday the 23th or Sunday the 24th. Even thought of putting it one hour later to accomodate the nation being attacked. 
The warclaim will be april 24th 3 pm est with the possibility of doing it the day before, if it suits better moderation who will oversee it.

I think we will need moderation to select the date as Elysium won’t be flexible. 
 

Tldr : Skirmish will be on the 24th, siege will be on the first day of may.

Elysium has been far more flexible than Krugmar, we have offered several alternative dates, wars are grounded in mutual respect of which you are showing a lack of towards my own player base and insinuating a forfeit , we have agreed on 4pm est and have made it clear this coming weekend is terrible. You are being inflexible, and its malfeasance to just decide the date laterally. 

This is a discussion, and I iterate again that it is fair with the Orenian v Orenian warclaim being put to rest for the Krugmar v Elysium to happen on the timeslot. 

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

As Mr Admin said, the warclaim is planned for april 24th at 3 pm est. 

 

Prolonging the skirmish until the 30th and 1st creates conflicts for my player base. If the war would proceed to a siege, the siege would reach the time of finals when no orcs would be able to play. We have made it clear we are willing to adjust the start time (within reason) to meet your request. You accepted. We have made it clear that next weekend will not work for a skirmish. You refused because it's not what YOU want. We proposed a shift to the 23rd which doesn't work for a lot of the orcish playerbase. You refused because it doesn't work for YOU, not your playerbase.

 

We have tried to be flexible. You refuse to compromise and want everything your way. Yes, wars are grounded on mutual respect. Something you refuse to show the orcish playerbase. We brought up alternatives, you shot them down and just stated what YOU want again. 

 

Also, I would like confirmation if the request messaged privately to me by Drunkfailure is actually something you wish for a rule for this warclaim of : no allies, only mercenaries. Or am I just being lied to even more? The orcish playerbase is not a group of trolls, we are members of LOTC and want to be treated with respect. Something you refuse to show us OOC'ly.

 

TLDR: Warclaim is planned for 24th at 4 PM EST. If you need the start time adjusted. We can discuss this. Anything else, offer something in exchange.

Have a good day!
Papa

 

[Suicidium 1295]

13 hours ago, DrunkPapaBear said:

As Mr Admin said, the warclaim is planned for april 24th at 3 pm est. 

 

Prolonging the skirmish until the 30th and 1st creates conflicts for my player base. If the war would proceed to a siege, the siege would reach the time of finals when no orcs would be able to play. We have made it clear we are willing to adjust the start time (within reason) to meet your request. You accepted. We have made it clear that next weekend will not work for a skirmish. You refused because it's not what YOU want. We proposed a shift to the 23rd which doesn't work for a lot of the orcish playerbase. You refused because it doesn't work for YOU, not your playerbase.

 

We have tried to be flexible. You refuse to compromise and want everything your way. Yes, wars are grounded on mutual respect. Something you refuse to show the orcish playerbase. We brought up alternatives, you shot them down and just stated what YOU want again. 

 

Also, I would like confirmation if the request messaged privately to me by Drunkfailure is actually something you wish for a rule for this warclaim of : no allies, only mercenaries. Or am I just being lied to even more? The orcish playerbase is not a group of trolls, we are members of LOTC and want to be treated with respect. Something you refuse to show us OOC'ly.

TLDR: Warclaim is planned for 24th at 4 PM EST. If you need the start time adjusted. We can discuss this. Anything else, offer something in exchange.

Have a good day!
Papa

 

 

I apologize for the personal offense that you and your community feel for the announcement as it was a misstep taken in hiatus and wasn't meant the way it was, with the severe analogy removed and its been an effort since to get rid of any potential or active toxicity, conflict is not optional and making it more palatable and engaging to the players between our communities is of mutual benefit. However my points were of gross incidents regarding how some Krugmar players had treated Elysium prior to this conflict.  With the particular ERP slander in the public Krugmar discord and even in game in the middle of the Elysium Square being abominable and remains very contentious when the community holds many underaged players which we work with constantly to combat the plague of predators on this server. The ‘poop’ raiding was also very uncomfortable, with my community being disrespected and given taunts in looc during the incident which was eerie. To those concerned with seeing the evidence of this, you are free to message me regarding this on Crines#2975 but it is something to take into stride and move on from, which brings us to my next point. 

I hope and pledge for a clean slate and a renewed effort to not make this into a toxic conflict, seeing immersive demerits in a ban war which I find necessary to iterate. Both Tigergiri and myself are currently in finals and working to do what we can with the limited time and commitments we are carrying which is reflective of both our playerbases as well, so this is a two way street. 
 

Additionally, this coming weekend is bad for both our playerbases with it stated by my person consistently in the discussion to be moreover unfair to the defending side.  While this list does include me it is not limited to me, if it was just myself I would be more than happy to let it go forward however it is not. I have discussed this with my community leaders before each post as we have tried to work on a better time and date. Regarding the accusations on Drunkfailure, his request was revolving foreign groups and mercenaries but I had spoken to him after new roleplay and ooc circumstances came to light. 

The 24th was pulled out of nowhere or basis with no consideration or feedback to Elysium's availability for that date. We were not consulted before it was put forward and now that we have been consulted I have expressed our concerns with it and offered numerous alternatives with a preference for moving it to the following Saturday the 30th at 4pm EST.