Bias & Rule Breaking in the Celianor v. Krugmar War

[TreeSmoothie 4894]

Doc post, in case of it being deleted: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GkIbo0ueX9BV47Itf97fpsSgbrIMOINdClpgJWTopik/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

"Nation Leaders engaging in war will assume an active role in fostering quality roleplay & camaraderie. Wars must be grounded in mutual OOC respect."

 

Your 2nd favorite schizoposter has come out of the woodwork to complain again! Keep in mind, while I am on the side of the Horde in this post, I do hold allegiance to both playerbases and I've been keeping a close eye on both to form this opinion.

 

While spectating the discussion on the Celianor v. Krugmar post, I noticed a number of things directly in conflict with the war rules stated in the War tab on Policies. I don't know them by heart nor have I studied them much, but I'm going off the bare-bones definition of each and then mention how these have been broken.

 

_________________

 

"Leadership from both sides will use the war-thread to organize the specifics of the warclaim. Use this time to declare allies and settle on an exact time of day and location."

On the thread, a definitive date – the 18th – was declared for the war allegedly without allowing the input of the side of the Horde. Many times has it been pointed out, as it is both a day before a large holiday that a good majority of players observe/celebrate and one that a large amount of players from the side of the Horde, and even the nation leader himself cannot attend. Thus, by denying them any say in a war date, the Horde is set up for failure and the discussion meant cater to both sides equally only caters to one side, Celianor.

 

"Follow the spirit of the rules, not the word of the law—these rules create an environment for fun and organic war (no loopholing!)"

Celianor was given a tile, not connected to their own territory, by Elysium. The reasons for this have not been stated, but what it appears to be is a loophole to decrease troop movement cost. In roleplay, Elysium has little to no reason to transfer a portion of their territory that's close to Krugmar's to Celianor and appears largely OOC motivated from a spectator's viewpoint.

 

An excerpt from Drunkpapabear (Krugmar NL):

 "In our assault upon Elysium, they were granted extended time when we wished to pursue it so we would assume that affect is still in place as we are now on the defensive and request that it be consistent."

In the war that created the CB for this war, it was decided the defender, Elysium, would have 2 weeks after the war declaration to prepare, on their NL's request. Yet in this war, Krugmar is only given 1 week.

 

Itdontmata also mentions how both nations have 'bargaining chips' in regards to letting eachother build before the battle, connotating that Krugmar does have equal bargainig power. That Celianor wants to paste a new city that they could very easily do once the war concludes in 2 days, versus vital defenses needed for Krugmar because the long-dead city that no longer exists INRP that Celianor wishes to siege has poor infrastructure. 

 

I don't mean to sound accusing, but in looking at these interactions, it seems that staff's decisions on how and when a war will occur have frequently been in Celianor, Elysium, & Co's favor. In the thread, Krugmar's NL has asked questions that have been ignored completely.

It's been shown and shown time again that staff feedback has a higher value to other staff and the admins; can you guess which playerbase has little to no staff, while the other has a lot of them? 6 mods, more or less. 

 

If something is going to be enforced for one war, enforce it in the next and keep it consistent. Neither side said they were going to go by different war rules.

 

 

[Nooblius 5794]

again with the troop movement cost thing, the tile transfer is obv for conquest to be allowed not to decrease troop movement smh

[DrunkPapaBear 1975]

Valid points, but there’s one missing!

 

Why was a settlement leader in charge of the discussion on the other side? 
 

I wonder if Twi would have liked to speak, since it’s her nation declaring war 🤔

 

We love Twi

[Qizu 4037]

3 minutes ago, Nooblius said:

again with the troop movement cost thing, the tile transfer is obv for conquest to be allowed not to decrease troop movement smh

Yes kind of weird how they are able to conquest something they aren’t even attached to and even more so weird that they are allowed to loophole rules, and EVEN MORE so that they are loopholing the rules and getting everything that they ask for from staff?!?

Just now, DrunkPapaBear said:

Valid points, but there’s one missing!

 

Why was a settlement leader in charge of the discussion on the other side? 
 

I wonder if Twi would have liked to speak, since it’s her nation declaring war 🤔

 

We love Twi

This too, still wondering why the ferrymen are leading the discussion and not the nation they are declaring war on behalf of.

[Borin 5256]

You are far down my list on schizoposters. Otherwise from a neutral HUMAN CANONIST STRAIGHT WHITE MALE OBSERVER, valid points.

[Cheezzy_Garlik 502]

GO THE **** OUTSIDE PLEASE, but put on sunscreen

[Tabby64 1295]

 I have been observing both sides of the situation and I have come to one conclusion. I think that for us to have a proper smooth war is too simply have urguan win and take over both nations. Diggy diggy hole

[lemonke 1873]

[__Zuko 130]

6 minutes ago, DrunkPapaBear said:

Why was a settlement leader in charge of the discussion on the other side? 
 

I wonder if Twi would have liked to speak, since it’s her nation declaring war <img src=">

 

We love Twi

Twi said in a status update is said that he/she/they couldn't speak in the discussion

[Qizu 4037]

2 minutes ago, __Zuko said:

Twi said in a status update is said that he/she/they couldn't speak in the discussion

Bruh and its her war lmao actually let her speak 💀

[TreeSmoothie 4894]

7 minutes ago, Tabby64 said:

 I have been observing both sides of the situation and I have come to one conclusion. I think that for us to have a proper smooth war is too simply have urguan win and take over both nations. Diggy diggy hole

+1 I am currently enjoying carving Yggdrasil while I read all the spicy pixel fighting. What a simple world it would be if we simply fought the warclaim on roblox or Fortnite, amirite?

 

 

(I'm convinced LOTC is a social experiment by the CIA.)

[Wizzar 481]

Since I joined the server, I have come to realize the inevitability of OOC conflict in almost every faucet of this server, this runs especially true in PVP scenarios (raids and wars). Raids quickly become a "who violated a rules" first situation where mods are weaponized to punish/ban players by the opposing faction while wars are just OOC bickering for months until a 20 minutes PvP blob decides the fate of the nation. While I truly do sympathize with the staff who sits in the middle of all of this OOC nonsense. I believe it is largely due to server rules, the inescapable bias that staff holds, and the lack of any body or set of rules to check the power and decisions of the staff.

 

At the end of the day, the majority of the staff and the population of the server are quite literally children/young adults. They are not trained to arbitrate conflicts and rules. In fact, I have come to realize that MANY moderators do not even know the rules themselves. This leads to inconsistent decisions on a day-to-day basis that the playerbase has trouble accepting as we all recognize and know that this happens. Additionally, it is impossible for these conflicts to be arbitrated and negotiated fairly when the server is so interconnected. Almost every staff/player has some sort of opinion going into every conflict or at least their friends do. Therefore, bias is absolutely impossible to escape.

 

If we want wars and other similar situations to not completely suck on the server, the staff and playerbase each need to recognize a few things. Firstly, as a staff (especially a moderator), you ARE NOT a fair arbitrator of most of these situations. STICK TO THE RULES. If the rules do not adequately cover a situation, it should not be decided by the opinion of one or two people. Honestly, I do not have a solution for the playerbase issues. In these wars and raids, all I see is OOC fueled hate that influences important IRP situations. Getting involved in these situations is unfun. 

[E__V__O 1984]

2 minutes ago, TreeSmoothie said:

+1 I am currently enjoying carving Yggdrasil while I read all the spicy pixel fighting. What a simple world it would be if we simply fought the warclaim on roblox or Fortnite, amirite?

 

 

(I'm convinced LOTC is a social experiment by the CIA.)

 

I'll pay for you to ship me some carved art.

[creamynoteblock 2426]

commenting before something happens and this thread gets locked 

[Qizu 4037]

5 minutes ago, creamynoteblock said:

commenting before something happens and this thread gets locked 

>calls out staff bias

>removes them being called out

 

that would be so wrong, but oh so expected