[✗] [Magic Lore] Fire Evocation

[sam33497 2793]

6 minutes ago, wowj said:

Voidal magic really needs re-writes with how many people powergame and abuse its mechanics.

 

 

I have been told by Story-Team member Sam33497 that he will approve my moderated message (this message here) If I make it more Sam33497 friendly, so with that I will say "Wow, Voidal Magic totally isn't abused by players to powergame! It is totally fine the way it is and totally doesn't need rewrites or nerfs!!!" I was also told to add a Lector reference, so, lector.

 

 

[PrimnyaQuorum 1036]

Firstly - I love the idea of this re-write, and I think it brings a good many needed changes to fire (Thank GOD someone clarified actual burn damage mechanically). That said, there's certainly a few points that could be made more clearly, and some things I disagree with. This is a first few passes worth of notes, so - grain of salt. I am assuming the idea of voidal magics being a optional two-slot is a trend you intend to continue across the elemental evocations, and I'm all for it. 

 

Clarifications:

• Generally, How long does each Tier take? You've listed what you learn at each Tier, but not the time needed.
• I like the damage system mechanically, but it is a bit strong in terms of lethality - I think it should remain 4 emotes of exposure over a vital area to render someone critical, and half that if blue fire is used. In addition, I think its worth describing how base fire interactions with certain common types of armor, in regards to damage and lethality. 
• At what Tier is a fire mage capable of self-teaching the second slot? Would it be marked under the original MA? How long should it take someone to master the entire second slot?
• Who can access the second slot? 
• Personally (And not like I spent a month combing over voidal magic to fix this) It is easier to write spells as [1 Connect + X Charge + 1 Cast] Emotes - it would probably help make more visually clean the idea you have of de-powering certain spells for a quick and less potent casting
• You mention in the overall redlines one of the main limiting factors in Fire Evocation is the Line-Of-Sight, as is said in the Voidal Connection page - repeatedly throughout though, spells are seemingly limited to arbitrary ranges that are irrespective of the line of sight that don't really make sense. I'll touch on this when I get to them, but for spells that don't require it -I.E Flamethrower - I think this should be either Line of Sight, or set per spell.
• This is more of a personal ideal, but I never saw a problem with having non-combative fire be a color beyond that of a standard flame. It's flavor, and hasn't hurt anyone. On the subject of flavor, though - I do really like that you clarify how the spells ought be emoted, though maybe leave a bit of wiggle room if there isn't for a mage to create the own style of casting?
• Again, a personal idea - how would other elements, or elemental evos, interact with voidal fire spells? It could be nuanced to write, but it would help clear up what spells within voidal magic can to what against other spells.

Critiques/Suggestions:

 

Ignite:

• From what I can tell - Enwreathe, Cauterize, Conjure Fire, and any other displays of non-combative Fire. I personally think Non-Combative Conjure Fire should be written as it's own thing and treated separately - it gives true freeform creativity to the mage, only limited by the basic redlines it needs and ET Discretion during non-CRP portions of events.
• I would separate within each tier what the general potency/flame is like, how it works as a Cauterize-eqse spell, and how it works as a Enwreathe-esqe spell. 
• I wholly disagree with the range slapped onto this way - Enwreathe should work as long as you have line of sight on the target's weapons, and Cauterize should only work if you are within arms reach of said target.  Otherwise, as a general spark-producing tool, that range might work though again - it should be line of sight.
• A point I'll mention in other spells and elaborate further on in Modifiers - I don't see why Combustion/Enduring/Blue Fire/Fumes cannot be applied to the Enwreathe portion of this spell.

Fire Projectile:

 

• Again - the range. A Translocationist with a Arcane focus, or a extra emote, can travel up to 32 blocks. A 20-Block (RP Range) spell limit seems arbitrary. 

• The Redline against Eminants doesn't really need to be there. A Eminant only gains a stack of Incanter's Flow upon the casting of a spell and as far as I understand - Fire/Flame Projectile counts as 1 Charging and 1 Casting, regardless of how many projectiles are summon, thrown, or lost.

• I'm assuming this is Flame Projectile and Flame Blast rolled into one spell, plus Super Flameblast and Ultra Flameblast. No complaints here on that, though I would specific for fumes if the radius of the smoke is double that of the initial spell radius - I.E Does a T5 Fire Projectile Fumed create a 10m Radius of Smoke? It'd be good to be able to know that information from within the Spell spoiler in my opinion

 

Fire Wall:

 

• I like the idea of a useful flame wall. Generally - does the fire itself act as a visual obstruction given the flames border several meters taller then the average descendant, or is that specifically limited to fumes?
• This is a concern I'll address on the Modifications part, but - why can't this wall be made combustive, or enduring, or blue fire'd? I'll return to this point in more detail when I get there
• I would clarify the mechanics of encirclement like the original spell does - you mention it as a option for application but don't expand on it. How far away does it have to be at minimum from the target? How far can it be at maximum? 

Fire Pillar:

 

• This spell feels weak for a Mage who isn't a Eminant at 3 stacks of Incanter's flow. Rarely will a target remain still in a 2x2 area for the 2 charging emotes, nevermind a 4x4 area for 3 charging emotes. 
• The Combustion effects are incredibly strong. The current Launch sends a target 1.5 Meters into the air and may, at most, cause sprains in the ankle. Atop of breaking bones, this T4 + Combustion spell (that is now T5 Cost, 5 Emotes, and a 2x2 area, exaggerating the concerns from before) sends them flying 6 meters into the air. This is, if it lands, a Fight-Ending spell regardless of how into the fight someone is, while equally being useless to cast.

Flamethrower:

 

• A nerf that I'm sad for but probably was needed. I don't quite understand the T3 Variant - at two blocks and three emotes there isn't a chance your getting that off before someone has DC'd you, or forces a dodge/self-disconnection. I heavily dislike the idea of spells that are only applicable to mages with enhanced connections such as Scions or Eminents. 
• For the T5 Twin Flamethrower Variant - Can this spell be fired at two different targets within the mage's line of sight (infront of them?) Or only in the same general direction?
• For Enduring - Do the Enduring Flames linger for three emotes following the conclusion of spell, or from when they were first applied? That is - if I sustain a Flamethrower for 4 emotes, does all of the Enduring Flame vanish on the 7th emote after I've concluded my spellcasting, or does it vanish after 3 emotes have passed from application - which is to say chunks of enduring flame would vanish over time and the area set of fire slowly lowers?

Firestorm:

 

• Again to the Modifiers - I don't see a reason why the T3/T4 Variants of the spell can't have Modifiers as a option
• I don't quite understand the height part - assuming the only range requirement is Line-Of-Sight, does that specify how high the clouds are from the ground?

Flame Field:

 

• This looks pretty good as is, though would a mage not be caught in their own flame field if using the T4 Variant and a Focus? 
• Again like a broken record, but I don't see a reason why more Modifiers can't be used here - why not fumes to create a smokescreen?
• Here, I agree with the use of a range limit IF a focus is used, or otherwise originating from the mage. I would mention somewhere the mage is, presumably, standing in a safe spot with no flame under them - if so, how large is this area, and could others stand in it?

Flame Implement:

 

• In honesty,  this is a Scion-only spell that they can't even use, considering it's T4. A mage attempting to attack would disconnect and thusly be unable to use the spell.
• I would instead considering making this a T4 Ignite - allowing someone to almost entirely shroud a person's weapon in dense flames that trades the edge for the ability to add Modifiers. Alternatively, you could allow this to create a Anchor that someone else can grab onto, and via Enduring create them a flaming weapon, per the redlines of the existing Flame Implement - Get creative with it!
• I don't quite understand the fiery after-trail - is it for flavor, or would it damage someone who tried to pass through? Could I make a fire whip and spin it around really fast and then make burning air?

Fulminating Blast:

 

• This honestly feels underwhelming - I don't know the difference between a Ray or Beam, nor why each would have different radius's. Casting the spell ought to be consistent in it's dimensions and effects.
• Again, range - I don't see a clear reason, especially given its a Event-Only use spell, to cap it by a set range instead of Line of Sight. Given that it is a event spell, perhaps up it's capabilities a little more, and define it as consuming the mage's entire manapool, and thusly rendering them unable to cast? This may be better left as a last-resort spell for a event, rather then a spell someone might consider casting with other options.

Modifiers:

 

Generally:

• I don't understand why some spells can have some modifiers, and others cannot. As a general rule of thumb, I like the idea that T5 spells cant be up-tiered past White Fire, and thus can't accept Modifiers. Still - Why shouldn't I be able to apply Combustive to Enwreathe as is currently accepted, or enduring and allow weapon strikes to spread fire to opponents? Why Can't my T4 Firestorm rain down smoke or create a burning oil field underneath it? In my opinion, the Modifiers should strive to give versatility to the way Fire Evokers can cause chaos and damage, and only not apply where it makes sense. I.E Flamethrower is a stream of flames, and thusly a semi-solid, combustive stream doesn't make any sense. TL:DR - Modifiers should always apply unless they rationally don't make sense in the application. It shouldn't matter if its useful - giving players the tools to do more things, useful or powerful or not, is what makes something freeform, which seems to be the main point of this re-write.
• Atop that, and this is more a clarification - can Modifiers be stacked, following the redlines that each adds a tier's worth of cost and +1 emote to the spell length, or is there a maximum limit of Modifiers per spell? If so, what is it? It would be cool to stack something like Enduring Blue Flame, through following the logic it could only be applied to T3 Spells if such could be done.

Blue Fire

 

• Given how you earlier clarified damage by burns, I think it might help to add that to how Blue Fire applies its damage for rapidly. I'd also clarify somewhere how normal fire effects fire, if Blue Fire can bypass it after two emotes
• I don't think fire resistance would entirely nullify the effects of Blue Fire - maybe give whatever its applied to 1 Emotes worth of resistance to the effects before it might otherwise succumb, but otherwise that's entirely negating +1 emote and +1 Tier's worth of Mana. Alternatively, this could be best left to the individual lore pieces that have Fire Resistance or Immunity.

White Fire:

 

• Does White Fire, on it's application, instantly PK the user? Can it be sustained across several spells in a sort of countdown?
• Does a White Fire PK Bypass methods of surpassing death, Such as Kloning, Machine Spirits, or other CAs/FAs? Whatever it is, it should be marked down.

Combustion:

 

• Does a Combustive-Modified Spell retain its heat aspect - that is, if I hit someone with a T2 Combustive Fire Projectile, will they suffer the burns and concussive force added by combustion, or does the combustion replace the burn effects with concussive effects?
• In addition, at the higher tiers of combustion where Combustion begins to apply in a radius - does that burning effect carry to that radius if it applies?

Fumes:

 

• I think I understand, but just to clarify - In using fumes a emote is not added, but the charging emotes replace flame and embers with soot and ash?
• Is there a reason the smoke created by fumes cannot be sustained longer then 4 emotes? Again, this feels like it could default to how the spells describes its sustainment by tier cost, instead of arbitrarily lasting 4 emotes.

Enduring:

 

• I really like this concept of a deployed spell - I think, again, the idea of a arbitrary 3 emote limit doesn't make sense. Rather, it could be that it follows the sustainment guide from a spell, OR that Enduring contains its own sustainment guide - That is, based on the Tier of Spell its applied to, it can remaining up for a set amount of emotes before requiring a additional cost of mana equal to the tier casted at to sustain for another set amount of emotes. This would give more freedom to the mage to sustain for however long they wish.
• I would include here that the puddle of flaming liquid left by Enduring is twice the radius of the original spell, for clarities sake, as well as under each spell where it could be applied if you want to be extra clear.

[IsaaKc 1225]

3 hours ago, ECS1999 said:

I am not really sure if Fire Evocation really needs a rewrite, even less to become a 2 slotted magic

the currently accepted evocation lore was written in line with FlamboyantRage’s standards during his tenure as lore admin. the criteria used then is now widely unpopular and most of the server’s magics have received rewrites to do away with the Flam-era lore standards. evocation and the rest of voidal magic are the only pieces that haven’t been updated in this regard. very necessary rewrite in my opinion.

[Ztrog 1031]

While I do think it is written pretty nicely and I like some concepts, the fact that it is weakening fire magic as a whole and locking things Fire Evocationists could do already behind another slot is a bit silly. 

[Islamadon 4429]

This lore has been denied. You will be sent a forum PM regarding the reasons for denial within the next 24 hours.