OOC, Roleplay, and You(r view)

[Scatmanpro 275]

This is so great! Can't wait for these changes to be implemented. I do hope that the community won't take this as criticism and start hating on the mod team, because you really don't deserve it with all the work you do for the server! ❤️

[ivery 590]

I've never been an NL and only spent a small amount of time, relatively speaking, in a nation's government. That being said, I witnessed several transitions of characters into becoming NL and they all suffered from the same sort of pressure, like a switch flipped the moment they became an NL. It's been described to me in a few different ways, all boiling down to a summary of "When you're the NL, you need to put the nation's prosperity over yourself/your enjoyment/quality of rp."

 

Because of this, I've seen several NL-heir characters simply not roleplay their character until they inherit NL, practically barricade themselves within their palaces (including several instances of logging off when they see someone in the distance that they know is dangerous), and focus entirely on the management side of their role. Based on Squak's explanation here, and looking back at these personal memories with that in mind, a lot of that mindset shift from Normal Player to Nation Leader comes from pressure from the aforementioned "middle management" culture as well as something I didn't see mentioned - the pressure to matter, to do something important, and to not get killed or **** up before then. Paired with the expectation for NLs to PK on first death, in order to avoid that first death even the most well-meaning NLs have been encouraged to resort to dirty tactics. Metaplay is bad, but with the current culture it's not considered as bad as being remembered as "the one who was trusted with the nation and messed up."

 

It's unfortunate to watch, because the NLs who do tend to be remembered best are the ones who put being a player first- whose roleplay actions are driven by their character's experiences and opinions, the ones who brave the town square even if some random person might run up and attack them, who let themselves play a character that has flaws and makes mistakes.

[squakhawk 14038]

1 minute ago, SethWolf said:

 

 

im not going to write a club-sized paragraph that will beat this dead horse any further than it already has been, but here are my thoughts in a nutshell:

other people are right. if you be the good guy and stick to a strict roleplay only policy as an NL, you are willingly playing with both hands tied behind your back. You cannot reasonably organize a proper response in the time needed when shit hits the fan through a 2/3 hour long council meeting, meanwhilst the other side hammered out everything you just did in a 15 minute phone call.

 

if you really want to stop it, staff need to start swinging on the leadership of the server. start punishing people for making discord chats, ban ooc plotting, DESTROY discord. Ofcourse, this will effectively force a massive cultural change on the server and make it by far more infuriating to actually organise things on, but it will create the change you seek in that ooc plotting will be cut down.

 

 

 

That's the conclusion I came to when NLs were introduced to the idea of a 'nl contract' which would've been just a honor rule that nls dont use ooc. Most them said they want to, but don't want to because all it takes is one person to break it for it to just become useless.

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/roleplay-leadership/

 

Just making sure this was clear in the post, these are enforceable and going to be enforced from hereon out. I say hereon out because I don't want people participating in stuff like this the last 3 weeks to immediately bloodbowl eachother, but it is a standard everyone is upheld to. But with how positive folks are and agreeable to not only this ruleset but mentality and upcoming changes, I'm really excited to seeing a betterment of roleplay as that sort of nuclear-disarmament of OOC begins to disappear.

[Frostdrop1 1843]

I think a big part of the bad OOC drives are the following:
1) The sheer workload involved in making LOTC things achievable, particularly for NLs, but this also goes for any roleplay circle. In my experience, everything is backbreaking to achieve through various means of gatekeeping to the point where the intent behind the rp doesn't even work anymore. The use of discord is practically necessary at this point to cope with the workload, and NLs suffer so badly they often lose their characters entirely to just become workslaves. If the workload isn't cut down, it's unreasonable to expect OOC to cut down. 
2) The pressure to be "right" or "win". Being "wrong" in your roleplay decisions leads to such harsh backlash it is exhausting. I have been torn to shreds in tears in my first year of LOTC over it. There are often multiple groups pulling in multiple directions, and you just have to beg and pray what you do makes sense to the people that will be judging you. The weight of the judgement simply isn't worth it, and adhereing to resolving things OOCly is much easier and less stressful.
3) Insular communities. Many people find groups they are comfortable with, and want to stick with them and protect them. They gain absolute loyalty with little consideration of their character - and this is largely linked to 1 and 2.
4) The perpetual allowance of OOC toxicity, particularly revolving around war. IMO, everything has been getting continually worse the more wars are involved because it's the same communities doing the same thing and driving for the same OOC goals. This is not applicable to just wars, but also OOCly driven enforcement of cultures that are not permitted to grow or shift with time even if there is considerably roleplay weight behind it. The last wars ground the rps I was involved with to an absolute crawl, and any major moves I've made that have upset people are met with instant comments the moment I join a VC. 

This is not to say OOC is entirely bad. Planning a vague storyline and then working out the details as you go can be fun, and change. I've often found this most rewarding in individual interactions where we can simply agree on an outcome we're happy with and mutually. This is small, does not affect the server as a whole, and is more about cooperation. I find this a healthy way to use OOC.

[MrMojoMordor 2413]

Right now - i'm in the process of moving from one nation to another for the past month or so & man, it's kinda hard lmao.
While partially it is because of what my character is - there's also this weird feeling that i need to 'befriend' people OOC first on discord before i get to RP & do shit with them IRP.

Also, there truly is a lot of weird OOC targeting. Even within nation that aren't at war, the BIG-DOGS of the community OOC target those they don't like to push them out - sometimes deserved, sometimes with BS narratives.

[Haseroth 1740]

ban the usage of nation discords and group chats. Its not perfect, but it will solve a lot of issues that stem from constant ooc organizating of shit. I've seen it work in large rp communities, it does work. Get people to use ingame IC mediums to share IC information and do IC things.

[LazyBacon220 600]

In many ways, my personal thoughts have already been expressed by others. While I'm not an NL, I've been a part of nation leadership for a while now. Nations and NLs are, as stated, incredibly dependent on moderation for relatively simple tasks! Tasks such as these inhibit roleplay in my opinion as NLs are forced to go through non-roleplay routes to complete tasks that should be able to be done through roleplay. It is also incredibly easy to just focus on discord instead of going through roleplay channels to further a narrative or respond to a crisis. It is an acknowledged evil and yet we continue to do it because it is an easier option or the nation will be swallowed up, out-gunned, out-manned, and out matched if we don't stoop to that level. This is a really good start, and I am excited to see where it takes the server.

[Animael 1500]

A) One side.
B) The other side.

A Roleplays + B Metaplays = A Suffers (-2), B Wins (+1)
A Metaplays + B Metaplays = A Suffers (+0), B Suffers (+0)
A Roleplays + B Roleplays = A Wins (+2), B Wins (+2)

There's less risk to 'Metaplaying' because there's more chance the other side will 'Metaplay', and thus encourages you to 'Metaplay' to reduce the chance of a greater net negative.

[Javert 9615]

16 minutes ago, Smmer said:

NL pk clause pls

Everyone pk clause. Game of thrones this shit. Make nobody safe. Your character is not immortal. Make them fear for their life every time they go into battle so they're not stupidly brave.

[KidKrinkles 2044]

I came to roleplay. Prescripted and pre negotiated roleplay is theatre. And I ain't in theatre club.

[Orlanth 4667]

Plato describes people who have spent their lives chained in a cave facing a blank wall. They watch shadows projected onto the wall by objects passing in front of a fire behind them, and they give names to these shadows. The shadows are the prisoners' reality but not accurate representations of the real world. The shadows represent the fragment of reality we can perceive through our senses, while the objects under the sun represent the true forms of objects that we can only perceive through reason. Three higher levels exist: natural science; deductive mathematics, geometry, and logic; and the theory of forms.

Socrates explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not the direct source of the images seen. A philosopher aims to understand and perceive the higher levels of reality. However, the other inmates of the cave do not even desire to leave their prison, for they know no better life.


 

Spoiler

@squakhawk I'd like to speak with you further in depth about this whole subject without excessively cluttering the thread. I'll shoot you a message in discord.

 

[olpx 1013]

This new term that you are trying to coin "Meta play" will never work out because there is no manageable way to enforce ooc dming discording or whatever people will now be using to ooc scheme probably even more this is not a thing you can moderate reasonably.

[RaiderBlue 1064]

30 minutes ago, Sean_VEVO said:

 

YOU ARE MAKING ME LOOK BAD!!! I REACHED OUT WE JUST NEVER DID IT!!!!

@squakhawk

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Yap session:

 

Firstly, me and Squak have had this conversation many times in discord just not “officially” I guess, and I couldn’t agree more.

When I joined LOTC less than a year ago all I did was role play. I barely was in discord and it was only to contact people for rp or to talk with friends.

 

I was a magic RPer before doing anything nation related. When I finally did I had no prior relationship with the leadership or anyone in the community aside from my friend ATN who asked if I wanted to play his son.

 

It was incredibly enjoyable for me doing that role play and even though I joined amidst the coalition war I still had fun and did fleeper rp and posts; I had no clue how deep the ooc rabbit hole was and made music and just did fun stuff.

 

This was abruptly cutoff when I was transferred PRO to do a rebellion I organized in character in order to give my character a good ending as he was a loyal soldier of the Midlands.

 

Again I knew none of the nation leaders and most of the players, the only nation leader I had been in remote contact with was Hugh who was my nation leader and roleplayed with me pretty frequently.

 

For an entire two week period I was cast as some bad faith evil pvper who hated roleplay and wanted to kill nations. It was so bad even friends I had in coalition nations (literally where I started when I joined) were coming to me and asking why I was “ruining their role play.” I was called rude names in character (or veiled as in character, really targeted as me as a player.)

 

I say all this because it goes both ways and it’s a crazy ooc psyop.

 

Important figures in nations regularly cast down their enemies as evil ooc when they’re just normal players. And at the end of the day we’re all just normal players.

 

There needs to be more dialogue and conversation on the server. More role play and less out of character warring.

 

People who were friends with me with a fleeper mindset thought of me as an idiot or gullible for speaking with leadership that was on the opposing side in a previous war like @indiana105@ferdaboy and many others.

 

This is not to say this idea is prevalent only on one side of this spectrum. I distinctly remember Ferda calling me a “veletzian” and many of my friends calling him a “Haenser”.

 

It’s all so goofy. And now that I’m a nation leader things will never look the same for me as when I was an innocent fleeper squire wanting to be a knight.

 

Is it that I miss those days? Did I change or did my environment? I’m not sure. 
 

I talk way more in discords now and do stuff in discord I would have done in role play when I joined. It kind of sucks. And I understand the importance of having discord for organization but I wish more things were handled in role play. The server would be much more fun and better off that way.

 

Again this is coming from a player who has only been around for LESS THAN a year (I signed up in December 2022 but only played finally in November 23.) So I understand it’s a limited perspective but considering I’ve done Nation RP, Magic RP, Staff Work, Nation Leading, War, etc I think I have at least enough experience to talk on the matter.

 

I do genuinely really like LOTC it’s just been in a direction I don’t really find all that fun or interesting because of this platform we use for organization turned into borderline cheating the system.

 

if you read this far ur a goat

 

Minecraft Villain.

[Haseroth 1740]

26 minutes ago, MysticalWeasel said:

I am a new player to the server. And I can see a glaring issue there is no point in fighting or having conflict with other nations. As there is no gain that is noticeable outside of land. I feel like if the server had a bigger resource issue it would allow nation leaders to stimulate themselves and their nation more with needing to make strategic alliances and resource pacts with other nations. Driving more interaction and self stimulating rp to other nations and their leaders.



 

also this. There needs to be way more insentives to drive people to fight one another. It is way too easy to just form huge hugboxes that drive no story whatsoever.

[satin 7600]

4 minutes ago, Javert said:

Everyone pk clause. Game of thrones this shit. Make nobody safe. Your character is not immortal. Make them fear for their life every time they go into battle so they're not stupidly brave.

if you want war to never ever happen again, do this