A Discussion On The High Elven War Claim

[Song Druid 1486]

We've never had a coding team before this one.  They are hard at work creating one and have given insight into it.  Vaq is the person you should thank for the false promises, not the current coding team.

 

 

Personally I find this warclaim invalid for different reasons- Bignsxxy just hates the High Elves OOCly.  And he's got no IC reason to attack the city, as Kalenz pointed out in the OP.  Just ignore it.

[Stag 3234]

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Personally I find this warclaim invalid for different reasons- Bignsxxy just hates the High Elves OOCly.  And he's got no IC reason to attack the city, as Kalenz pointed out in the OP.  Just ignore it.

 

 

That may be but I do believe we mean to discuss any other WC's on the high elves. At least that is what I have come to believe through the later part of this thread.

[Supremacy 3361]

Mingpow, Acornlad and a few others have been discussing a potential solution for this. More information once we have a fair idea.

[firespirit44 1323]

I think to balance it out, you would want potions and enchanted bows.<br /><br />Because its still referring to the minecraft mechanics of trying to aim, and giving the attackers a chance to dodge said 'spells'.<br /><br />Illusionists can use slowness.<br />Fire/Arcane would be using damage.<br />And there are alot of miscellaneous types of potions as well to support their members, like swiftness and all that.

[Smithers 388]

I merely must note the following: /we have no obligation to accept your war claim/. It is due only to our own community's positive outlook towards dynamic roleplay that this discussion is occurring in the first place. Other factions that this was discussed with noted that they would have denied it outright due to the fact that the war claim in extremely apparent in its OOC basis. Further note that discussions like these have occurred EVERY TIME that a predominantly magical community has been laid to siege. As stated earlier in relation to this claim, the war claim on Mali'nor was abandoned due ICly to a potentially catastrophic number of casualties due to its entrenched, advantageous position. Haelun'or has even MORE of a position and terrain related advantage that Mali'nor at the time, yet it seems as if this isn't even being considered in discussion. I do not agree with the representation of mages in PVP through either enchanted weaponry or GM assistance, as both would fundamentally result in underpowered representation due to concern over making something too overpowered. I suggest a wait until the initial release of Nexus or an outright denial of the war claim.

[Aetosion 2062]

We've been watching antag mages shoot horizontally tracking firework blasts with associated damage for the last month. I'm confused as to why we can't release that selectively to high elf mages.

RPly, Haelun'or with so many T3+ mages has a very strong military force. That needs to be represented properly.

[Jistuma 1996]

• Enchanting

Silvos’Laurir Sythaerin (BladeCreep - Tier 3)

Ibar Elsiol (CrippledBacon - Tier 3)

Lucion Sullas (Mithradites - Tier 3) MAT

• Telekinesis

Kale'thas Sol'enrai (mthdominator - Tier 3) [The user list says T1, but I'm unsure that is the case. I'd have to check]

Hileia Sythaerin (LumiaFox - Tier 2)

Silvos’Laurir Sythaerin (BladeCreep - Tier 5 - Teacher)

Kalenz Uradir (SupremacyOps - Tier 5 - Teacher) MAT

• Light Illusion

Kalameet (Sage221- Tier 4 - Teacher)

Delonna Aeléyèlsa (Dohvakin - Tier 4)

Kalenz Uradir (SupermacyOps - Tier 5 - Teacher) MAT

• Mental Magic

Vulnir Velulaei (Mririshboys - Mind Magic - Tier 3)

• Fire

Azorella (Kuroi13 - Tier 3)

Zaniil (Smawton - Tier 3)

• Water

Seth Calith (samler - Tier 3)

Delonna Aeléyèlsa (Dohvakin - Tier 3)

Ev'ahreal(Meet2012 - Tier 5 - Teacher)

• Air

Rolen Veryan (Raxxtus99 - Tier 3)

• Electrical

Ellser'cyrusa Galleon (Tigergamer - Tier 2)

Ceruberr Asul'Ailer (CaptainSheepy- Tier 4) [This isn't on the actual user list yet (currently T3) as it has yet to be updated but it is the case by time]

Lelien Aeleyelsa (Eenhoornheid - Tier 4) [same as above]

Lucion Sullas (Mithradites - Tier 5 - Teacher) MAT

• Arcane Shielding Lore

Iatrilemar Elervathar (BrandNewKitten- Tier 4 - Teacher)

• Arcane Missiles Lore

Iatrilemar Elervathar (BrandNewKitten- Tier 1)

• Fi'hiiran'seth

Athri Elibar'acal (Minscule_Evil - Tier 2)

Algaron Elibar'acal (JoshIsTooCool - Tier 1)

• Fi'hiiran'acaele

Naeri Elibar'acal (Frottimer - Tier 1)

I'm bored so I'll speak of the mages.

First off, about half of them wouldn't even show up at the fight, that's what normally happens.

 

Enchanting, useless in battle, maybe usefull for things before the battle that can be represented in MC

 

Telekinises, they can throw boulders, they are the catapults of the high elves, and can be represented as such but oh.... You guys need bolders to throw, but if they knew they were being attacked, I guess they could get them from somewhere. Since they are the catapults, they are able to be shown MC'ly as other catapults have been. There are 3 mages capable of anything: mthdominator, Supremacy and Bladecreep.

 

Light Illusion, well... it's an army, it can't be done. You can't illusion an army, there are too many and connecting to all of them, from far away would probably kill them before anything could be done, it could be done to just a few of the army men. This makes the the illusionists a bit useless in battle. Anyway, of those, there are Sage, Dohvakin, and Supremacy. But Supremacy is a Telekinises as well, so he would have to chose, and of course he would chose to throw giant bolders, so it's just 2 mages here, which can't do almost nothing against an army, because it's an army, it isn't 1-5 people.

 

Mental magic could defeat one person, thought I don't know if he could connect to many people at once, and even so, the most powerful magic they can do  probably could only incapacitate one man before being depleted. There is one mage, Mririshboys, and he is a Tier 3, he can't even incapacitate one man.

 

Fire, two fire mages, tier 3. They can probably fire a few fireballs, capable of maybe defeating 1 man each IF they would hit them. It's the same as arrows, if the arrows miss, they are useless. So ye maybe, Smawton and Kuroi could get a kill each, but then remember, they kill one, but then can't do a thing afterwards.

 

Water, I'll just assume they can do ice magic. Dohvakin is a illusion mage, but since illusion would be useless he would probably go with water magic. Then there is samler and Meet. Samler and Dohvakin are Tier 3 mages, so the trade would be like the fire mages, maybe one kill, if they were lucky. The Tier 5 mage would be the problem here, but what could he do? Throw lots of ice pikes? Enought to defeat 5 members? Well I guess... unless some more interesting thing was imagined before and could be represented iin MC (like snowmen! But those don't work.)

 

Air. I'm sorry, but a tier 3 air evocationist is useless. Air evocation is one of the most powerful magics there are, but you have to be a master for it. Untill you can pull an armored man from the ground with a gust of air, air magic is useless.

 

Electric, now this would be powerful. With two Tier 4 and one Tier 5, they would be doing most of the casualities. Just one problem with these mages... There is that rule that if enough metal is between the target and the start, the electricity goes to it. Ups, that won't work in a battlefield, the allies in armor would get hit. So... let's say they were smart and only stay in places far away from their allies. I guess if they did that, they would maybe defeat the 9 members of the opposing army.

 

Arcane shielding. Pretty much useless, could be used in MC as an enchanted armor, probably just the arrow damage less one.

 

And the other magics are useless.

 

In total: Enchanting made in MC, Telekinises made as catapults in normal lotc battles, illusion useless in battle, Mind magic useless because it's a Tier 3 mage, Fire 2 kills, Water 6 kills, eletricity 9 kills if they are completely isolated from their allies, arcane shielding enchanted armor. So 17 kills, not nearly as far as the 32 said by Supremacy, but this is if all mages show up, which probably at least half won't. Oh, and the other mages that aren't good enough yet to do anything, can't of course wear iron armor, nor can the other mages, maybe leather or chainmail for the weaker ones.

[Supremacy 3361]

Issues with the above:

 

• You don't have to illusion everyone present. You can illusion a select group so once again, illusion has a purpose and isn't useless.
• Why would a telekinetic fight like a catapult when repelling a siege? Why not throw arrows as would be more efficient when attacking enemies and not a city. Also, if you take a gander at the high elven walls you will notice stacks of serrated metal disks for throwing at attackers. They can also physically throw people in full plate armor— they're not going to be lacking in things to throw. 
• T3 air mages are balanced to rule 15. They can knock an armoured man down more than once. No evocation is more powerful than the other at any stage.
• Realistically no ally in armour is going to stand next to a lightning-mage. That and we are talking about a lot of metal, a a metal suit of armour does not equate to 3 meter cubes of iron. Simply being near metal doesn't negate electrical mages, it just makes their job harder (and realistically they would be up high away from their soldier-kin).
• Arcane shielding could physically make walls to stop arrows, soldiers and given focus catapult ammunition. That, and block other mages magic.

I could write explanations about why magic is more effective in a war. Fireballs doing splash damage, lightning doing splash damage, telekinetic balls bounding off once foe to another and then another or even a wind gust so happening to knock one person back into another. That doesn't make me right, but it is an argument that can be made with ease.

 

Realistically neither your claims it is weaker or my hypothetical claims it is stronger can be validated and they essentially cancel each other out, no?

 

Arguing that the magic is useless is about as productive as arguing that it is 2 times more effective than it should be simply because people are stacked up since neither side would be happy if that swung either way.

[Jistuma 1996]

Arrows huh? Didn't thought of that. But still, that means they can miss.

 

And a suit of armor is about 3 blocks of iron, a bit less (1 block is 9 ingots, suit of iron armor is 24 ingots, which is about 2.5 blocks of iron)

 

 

So in the end, I would suggest that thing you said, enchanted bows. A tier 3 get a tier I enchant, a Tier 4 gets a Tier II, and a Tier 5 gets the max enchat. This for the attacking mages. But for the illusionists I really can't see it work much... really can't... while they can stop 2-4 soldiers coming, the ones behind would make the mage stop the illusion and concentrate on those. The mages wouldn't be battle ready, and would just not know what to do. This because no mage has ever been in a battle, and only fights.

[Supremacy 3361]

You can't make an iron block realistically with 9 ingots nor can you make an anvil with the MC recipe. MC mechanics don't always logically match up, but either way they wont be next to the soldiers anyway so it doesn't matter. The illusionists could simply make fake groups of soldiers and engage in fake battles, pinning down groups for periods to reduce effective numbers on the battle field. Not to mention blinding, fake magic and an assortment of other possible things. 

 

Illusion is not as effective in a one versus one fight, but it makes a fine support magic in war. You can't fight an enemy when you can't tell where they are properly. Mind magic is the exception, that is genuinely not a combat magic in any shape or form.

 

Again, arguing how effective magic is, is a futile endeavour.

[Jistuma 1996]

So about the bow idea then?

[Supremacy 3361]

The bow idea is something Mingpow, Acornlad and I are exploring as of... A few hours ago.

[Tom_Whiteman 949]

I suggest you just use an iron sword and armor. Yolo.

[bignsxxy 128]

I am dropping the war claim, because it will suit both sides the best so we can no longer have this ordeal. I have thought the idea through and although I think even lesser of you now, I respect your decision, so I will be the bigger party. My counter offer:

 

'There will be a war claim 1 week following the magic plugin release, and no if and's or but's do you agree? Will you accept this, and it will be a suprise attack due to the mountains blocking your view of the sea'.

[Lago 2572]

Can't you simply abstract the mages to ranged attackers and give them temporary access to the fireball spell that's been used for trebs and dragons since forever?