MaplTree

You’d be fine if you were on the naughty list

they did. heh.

+1

Real

700 times in moderation alone

I did the math and it's roughly 5,550 forum posts. it all starts on page 222 of its profile

@Unwillingly we trashed alot of it 

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PVP also just frankly isn't accessible to everyone. Sorry, but "PVP training" doesn't fix disability, poor connection or iffy hardware. It also doesn't fix that reaction times which is quite literally developed over years and can also be a flat cognitive difference between people they can't change - such things are a vastly different skillset to creative writing.

It is rather accessible, you don't have to be the best in the world to participate in it or win alongside people who are more proficient. If you physically cannot operate your mouse and keyboard for it, I understand, but at the same time, in these exceptional cases you should simply stay away from conflict RP where PVP may occur. It is not for you. While YOU might want to CRP a bunch of guards for 3 hours as a golem, it's likely that the other party wants it significantly less. I don't know why those who dislike PVP would be considered more important than those who favor it - at the very least, the experience which isn't being enjoyed by the parties is much shorter when you PVP. I am not saying this necessarily applies to you, but I feel many people who take similar attitudes feel entitled that their way of enjoying the server is applied onto everyone else. No one is entitled to this, we are on a collaborative server. PVP is quite necessary to maintain the culture desired in the Empire, so they will PVP. It's not reasonable to expect them not to PVP in places it is necessary for them to secure your own enjoyment, especially when PVP requires 8+ people to call, so you are guaranteed to be wasting many people's time if it were CRP.

PVP has been an inexorable part of the server for more than a decade, I am not sure why it is being utterly dismissed as not part of the server. There are many places you can rp that will involve never seeing PVP ever, and even if you happen to run into it, you can get it over very quickly and worry no longer. Just don't go to PVP central and blame them for doing what they like doing.

You have some great ideas that make for good dialogue. I think we're pretty starkly different in our opinions of PVP but you voice your ideas well.

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 at the very least, the experience which isn't being enjoyed by the parties is much shorter when you PVP.

This is super valid. I agree that if no one will like it in the end, that PVP is probably the best outcome at present. It's more efficient, plainly put.

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I feel many people who take similar attitudes feel entitled that their way of enjoying the server is applied onto everyone else.

This is inherently true, too. However, LOTC presents itself as a premium roleplay experience. Given that so much is text-based it is also not unreasonable to have an expectation that future encounters will be text-based. Naturally, this is only a simple point and becomes more complex when combined with what's above, for there are things to negotiate about and if there is a reason someone may not be enjoying CRP (e.g. attitude, powergaming, it's like their 25th death and they don't stay away for even a little bit) it makes sense to use the alternative systems. As I said too, there are other games that blend mechanics and roleplay more seamlessly and in a more enjoyable manner - but the base game is usually better suited to it.

There is of course a second side to this: that many things in LOTC are locked exclusively behind CRP and cannot be represented in PVP. So while sometimes it may come across as entitlement, the reverse is that the encounter is simply skipped: magic is irrelevant, CAs are irrelevant, MARTs are irrelevant, RP weaponry is irrelevant, etc (which is what most people on the server spend most of their time engaging and beign comfortable with). Perfectly fair encounters in CRP can become entirely negligible in PVP.
 

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you don't have to be the best in the world to participate in it or win alongside people who are more proficient.

I think this somewhat defeat the point of PVP discussion as it relegates it to group PVP alone - which is not only the case. Indeed, PVP is largely based on numbers and that alone a great deal of the time. The 8 man rally will usually beat the 2 man rally without extraordinary circumstances regardless of PVP or CRP which is fine and should be expected. However, anecdotally, I have seen PVP often also used to allow more people to join conflict after the lock compared to CRP (strictly because of the mod). I have in all my time never seen someone enter CRP after lock, but I have seen it plenty with PVP - including the likes of horses riding up late and still being permitted which entirely defeated the flee intent of the other party.

Separately, participation does not equal enjoyment; rather, a great deal of factioning on the server is built on peer-pressuring people into engaging in CRP via spam pinging, repeatedly DMing over Discord and in-game. It simply doesn't create a nice culture. Moreover, it is without a doubt important that one can PVP proficiently individually to hold any real significance for otherwise your character becomes relegated to little more than loser slop and people will make fun of you and/or your character which then feels more personal because you lacked the ability, not necessarily the character. This is not to say RP cannot help off-set this, I trust certain people within the Empire who I know can emote well, but not everyone is so kind and it can easily mean you actually become barred from a number of RP routes which I think is honestly kind of mean spirited.
 

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you should simply stay away from conflict RP where PVP may occur.

And indeed this is often the case, or at least they may announce such inability to PVP one way or the other. This does not address more subtle cognitive differences, but we also simply cannot, for it is impossible. However, while this is the common sense thing it is certainly a shame that we should just tell people to stay away because they are incapable of participating in our collaborative experience because they are inconvenient. This is unfortunately just a part of PVP people have to accept, although I am not inclined to do so.

 

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While YOU might want to CRP a bunch of guards for 3 hours as a golem

For clarity, I would like it both ways. I enjoy CRP as a guard and honestly feel a little robbed when I walk up on gearing for PVP or the wider group calls it. I would not want to CRP the same person every day who does not do good emotes, though. In these cases, I understand simply going to PVP. However, I do see people just go to it anyway, regardless of whether that person was putting in effort or not, which them comes across as PVP being used to avoid the time one would put into RP, whether it was going to be good or not.

 

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PVP has been an inexorable part of the server for more than a decade, I am not sure why it is being utterly dismissed as not part of the server. 

PVP has been a part of the server for a long time. However, age is not necessarily a good argument for what's best, or not best. People get comfortable with what they have. However, PVP in many instances feels like an outdated manner of handling things. In the past, LOTC had a younger demographic overall. Generally, younger people will enjoy different things and tend to make more of simpler stuff and can work more easily with a faster, shallower pace to make some just as enjoyable as something deep. This is not a sole reason behind PVP existing of course; but it is one I feel is often overlooked, or at least is usually not voiced as to why it might be feeling to some outdated.

 

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There are many places you can rp that will involve never seeing PVP ever, and even if you happen to run into it, you can get it over very quickly and worry no longer.

Sort of. The hot-spots for it are obvious enough, and anyone with common sense enough will keep a wide berth fi they don't want to participate (though I have a little more to say on such and it is actively something which then controls which groups actually gets to control RP direction by virtue of exclusion but.. I digress). But frankly - yes, you can run into it anywhere. This means you must always be prepared. This means you need to take a chunk directly out of your normal RP experience in worry of the what if of PVP, particularly if you are not someone who enjoys PVP. I can say I am, personally, pathetically weak mentally when it comes to PVP - or anything regarding a change of rules or expectations. I am not someone who will really "get over it". It will, in fact, ruin my whole day if I wasn't expecting it and I am forced into PVP. It's different if I am in a place expecting it, or was able to deny it - but the change of pace and spontaneous nature of it does a number on me and I'm sure I'm not the only one. However, I personally am also a pretty extreme case and I am aware of that. But the reality for me on the server, and certainly some others, is that PVP is more like a looming threat that I feel like I'm going to be forced into - not allowed to opt out on our "collaborative" server.

 

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Just don't go to PVP central and blame them for doing what they like doing.

Frankly, I disagree to some extent. They can like doing it, and such is fine. And I did not disagree with this some time ago when the human population was broken up into smaller nations. I gladly avoided the nations - as did others - I thought I might get PVP'd in, and kept to the ones I enjoyed and trusted. This is one of a benefits of a more diverse spread. However, this is becoming less and less of an option specifically because of people who like PVP and have conspired to create a new empire which is more PVP focused. Some of those people I do consider friends and others I just generally respect because of the quality of RP they offer otherwise; however, it is without a doubt that the more limited places to engage with human RP is a contributing factor to how tensions can easily rise with the state of PVP at current which is a matter that was driven by player intent and does have knock-on consequences for PVP, and RP as a whole.

As you can see, I've got a lot I can say about it - as do a lot of supporters of PVP. I could definitely live without PVP, personally. I would like to see it even attempted to be without, but obviously that's a pipe dream. As  it stands, it has a place but I don't think it's been very well moderated or integrated, and that frankly a lot of the issues with PVP are not necessarily PVP in itself, but the attitude surrounding it and the impact that thusly has on others. Which, theoretically, could be solvable if moderation was harsher but I don't think anyone would like moderation that harsh, either.

9 hours ago, sam33497 said:

While YOU might want to CRP a bunch of guards for 3 hours as a golem, it's likely that the other party wants it significantly less

People tend to forget how there's a large variety of people on the server. Some have a lot time, and some are also in other timeszones - and do not want to CRP with you for 1 hour, because your 4 pm ist their 10 pm already.

hehe... yeah... Empire, bunch of bullies, especially that WEREWOLF guy... Did you know that he idolises William Afton from Fnaf? Whose William Afton? He just happens to be the most evil man in gaming.

• Character Race
  Wood Elf | Dark Elf | Elf

true

@JihnynyThanks for helping with my point lol

ninjayyz

Ur a joke

It should unless it's organizated 

No, during wartime I raid the same place every night, lmao

Generally speaking, if you have no RP reason to and your intentionally doing it in a way to harass people through offhours/loopholes/banditry rp for its own sake yea.

one day vaults.. one day..

@UnwillinglyI'd be totally down for this if we had vaults to store ST items or stuff that could easily get swiped while being a refugee. Or if Oren 9.0 didn't hate most druids lol

Buy another house in settlement number #45 under redstone door number #1835