[4.0 Idea] Warfare And Raiding

[Komodo 140]

I apologize for double posting but I must respond to Aedan. In response to your remark to Firestar, VAs and MAs were both rules and removed. Generally, there have been few problems and the server has adapted to the change well. As for  your attack on my response to Rand, understand that that was a battle. Raids are not battles. I do in fact have experience, you don't have to be so negative. These players were focusing on a battle obviously, not on roleplay. However, my idea is that you will have more players online 24/7 to keep their town active to prevent a raid. This does not mean however that they would be sitting on walls all day. They can go about their usual business then sound the bugles and go to arms when raiders come. Simple! Other than all that, I think it's time for me to be logging off for the night, so I may have not further responses. Good points on both sides though!

[Komodo 140]

 

 

 

Hear, hear, this man speaks sense.

[Aedan The Bard 350]

I apologize for double posting but I must respond to Aedan. In response to your remark to Firestar, VAs and MAs were both rules and removed. Generally, there have been few problems and the server has adapted to the change well. As for  your attack on my response to Rand, understand that that was a battle. Raids are not battles. I do in fact have experience, you don't have to be so negative. These players were focusing on a battle obviously, not on roleplay. However, my idea is that you will have more players online 24/7 to keep their town active to prevent a raid. This does not mean however that they would be sitting on walls all day. They can go about their usual business then sound the bugles and go to arms when raiders come. Simple! Other than all that, I think it's time for me to be logging off for the night, so I may have not further responses. Good points on both sides though!

I fully understand, mate. My apologies for seeming so negative or rude.

[Helvetius 314]

Meh, I'm keeping with denied. Despite what you say, that just isn't how things work being as I run a small town between oren/dwarves. Since it isn't devoted to the humans, we get orenians just changing their char name or using the 'evil side' of their character to attack (Dwarves haven't hurt us for a long time now). A population of 10 in a town with only three being guards can't do much when suddenly some folk (Not necessarily Oren) just decide to attack/mug people on their RPly good char (with an evil side for some reason) or one of their bandit characters. The farmers don't have iron gear (Since they are actual farmers, not some warrior in disguise) and the guards aren't on all of the time. This is how most new towns will start out unless it is a military town (like Vekaro) where everyone and their grandmother is a warrior in disguise.

 

In general: No to no raid rules due to actually understanding what it means. Some limitations are needed so that new towns that sprout up don't have to deal with 10 different bandit groups of the same nation that were originally good or just changed their names.

[big narstie 1701]

This is literally the mantra of every factions PvP server I ever played. 

 

Its also common sense you todger lol

[Katherine1 362]

When I first joined a year ago, there were more restrictive rules on wars and raids, but war and conflict RP were still prevalent. The big thing that was different about a year ago, though, was that other forms of RP were also a lot more prevalent.

Over this year, it seems we've fallen into supporting war and conflict more and more, with other types of RP suffering as a result. Now we're at a point where other types of RP that aren't conflict/military based are much, much harder to come by, and your proposing removing raid rules, which was proved to be a detriment with the Conclave and Leanniel. It seems like there is a group of players pushing the server toward it being a Military RP server, which is absolutely not what we want for the same reason we don't want one nation ruling the server: It destroys diversity of RP. If LotC right now decided to label itself a Factions RP server, I think nothing would have to change for it to be accurate, and it wouldn't be much further to remove the RP from the military RP and just be a Factions PVP server.

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

To the argument that raids wouldn't happen all the time... the Conclave was raided, what, 40 times in its first week? More? I don't remember. And to the argument that they should build walls and a guard force... they did. They successfully repelled a majority of the raids, yet that didn't stop people from raiding. Their RP and activity suffered as a result, because some people don't like that particular kind of RP. It's not a matter of it being better or worse than other types, just that people have differing tastes.

 

And finally, to the argument that settlements that can't repel raids shouldn't deserve to exist... what of peasant RP? Farmers and craftsmen and bards? There's no place for them if RP consists of constant raiding, and so the entire settlement either dies or becomes yet another militarized group. There's no balance, and removing raid rules won't fix that.

[Helbolt 129]

You can't really use real life examples from past history and compare them to a game where death isn't permanent.  Really, whats the motivation to be peaceful?  Staying alive?  You don't end yourself in a raid or being hanged by breaking "the law."

 

If you really want people to quit throwing their lives away on 50 raids a day, make dying perm-death, but this game isn't and hasn't been built that way since it was created however many years ago.  Therefore, you can't do that, and there must be some rules regulating it.

 

Also, I was on those Oren walls and listened to people troll for 30 minutes at a time... I was a human and it annoyed me.  ((Cept for that Horen guy - I think it was Zerostar, Kudos to him, every damn time he was on the wall he roleplayed it and yelled normal stuff, it was inspiring))

 

And lastly, to the guy using words like "straw man" and "fallous argument" in your reasoning, you must be in pre-law.  If not, kudos on the logic classes.  Impressive.

[hellfiazz 879]

If your faction's RP consists solely of raids then asking for more access to raids will only cause your faction to fall further into zero-RP. If you want more RP for your faction, raids won't get you that, they'll just get people online, which isn't the same thing. What you should be doing is trying to increase the amount of non-conflict RP, not the opposite kind.

[argonian 14254]

Raids between nations at war should have no restrictions. Raids on a nation you are not at war with should be restricted but only to once every 2 days(this is not ideal but some would accept nothing less). And bandits robbing a couple of civilians near a town should not be considered a raid, which some Alrasians say it is.

[SirSnowMan 318]

After re-thinking this idea I have to say I completely agree with.

+1

[Sultan 3953]

 Idea 1 - No support.

 

While I think that, with some ways to counter it, we could do with less raid rules, this isn't the way to go.

 

Forced conflict, between a player who wants it, and a player who doesn't, will never go well. Drama has resulted from this in the past, results in this in the present, and will result from this in the future. If we want more conflict, we need to make players want to participate - not make them participate. 

 

What I think could work? Allow capitals to be raid-free outside of wars. Players who don't want raid rp can stay in them, and have fun while also helping consolidate RP. Non-capital towns could be free to raid, at any time (Maybe keep the party size limit, though). 

 

If this means a shortage of places to be raided, perhaps that is a sign that more people dislike raid RP than like it.

 

Idea 2 - Depends on what you mean.

 

What do you mean by 'claim'? Warclaim for conquest? If so, I agree entirely.

 

But if you mean 'walk in, take the place', not at all. Timezones make this something that can only end in more drama. It wouldn't create rp, just griefing ban reports. Group A would come in while group B is offline, take the place. Group B would do the same when A is offline.

 

Best compromise make capitals a none raid zone. It well also raise activity in capital city's. 

[Coaster 2086]

Anyone who was here in Aegis and isn't an Asulon/Anthos scrub should understand that it was better in Aegis when people could pretty much do what they wanted. It was 10000% more fun. In Aegis you didn't really see the elves getting raided that much and when they did they didn't complain about it because of ((muh rp)) because conflict is a part of rp and they dealt with it like everyone else. If your nation is capable of being crippled and laid to waste by a group of 5 bandits and you literally cannot find any way to get rid of them through RP or otherwise you shouldn't be a goddamn nation. 

 

Aegis rules >>>>>>>>>>>>> w/e we have now

 

i wish for a return to simpler times!!

[Imperial Administration 530]

A simpler compromise to deal with the issue of "Consentual war":

 

If a nation/faction/group/conclave/commune/conglomerate denies a warclaim, Raid rules should be a lot more relaxed, to allow at least some form of consequence for a nation just denying a war. A quick example of these relaxed raid rules:

• Larger amount of men available to participate in a raid (12, let's say).
• Less of a cooldown time between raids (Instead of 48 hours, it's 24).

These two simple rules, when relaxed, can bring a consequence to a nation's decision of denying a war. Because, when thinking from an RP perspective, a small group of 5 people can continuinally insult and provoke a much larger nation and avoid conflict almost entirely, allowing them to spit their slander freely and without fear of retaliation.

 

And for those that argue that the peaceful Roleplay will die because of this, think first of how those peaceful roleplayers even got into the conflict in the first place. A snide remark, a passive aggressive tone, or just a blatant insult to someone that would typically view themself as superior (In an RP perspective). There's a reason the Halflings, an inherently peaceful and isolated faction, has survived without war, while the old Princedom of Malinor had fallen so out of grace with their conflicts with Oren.

 

So, as said, let's implement at least some form of consequence for those that would outright deny a warclaim (that has sufficient RP reasoning behind it). We don't want groups thinking they have an untouchable OOC shield to protect them from retribution.

[Hanrahan 2983]

Unfortunately, the above is subject to abuse as well. There were certainly instances of 5-7 groups of armoured Orks simply shouting

'KRUG'

over and over, and would not leave. This is them trying to pick a fight, which in RP, is unnavoidable, then turns into RP, then PVP, then everyone dies.

 

Otherwise, it's all good. +1