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CONFLICT AND WHY IT'S ESSENTIAL


Mickaelhz
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12 minutes ago, Ark said:

The main issue with bandits and roleplay of that type, is it’s not cooperative at all. For roleplay to function correctly you need to have both parties willing to participate. Typically the attacked party in bandit roleplay, is left annoyed, frustrated, without any meaningful gain from it. Especially because if you lose, you die, you forget everything and whatever you were attempting to do, you now just spent 20-30 minutes being harassed by someone else, without any meaningful interaction or character growth. It can be like a full time job creating roleplay and making settlements active on this server, it’s very disheartening to have that ruined because someone wants to do quick “bandit” roleplay under the guise of “making conflict for fun”. Most of the people who actually make cities active and do the leg work to give you settlements to harass, don’t enjoy the fact that bandits come in, attack their playerbases and typically act rotten in OOC. I do not see why people who put in countless hours to make a healthy roleplay community and environment for those on the server deserve to have it terrorized by people who feel like they have some god-given right to attack another community constantly. I understand you enjoy that type of roleplay, but do you ever stop to consider that the other party is enjoying it as well? 

The people in historical times didn't want to get killed or their stuff taken as well. Do you think when people are going to a bank they want a robber to take their lives savings? Not every bandit is what YOU think is: Toxic in ooc, does 2 line emotes, runs around while rping and takes your gear. People frankly need to learn how to be good sports and lose for once, When I bandited and killed someone I only popped someone if they acted completely toxic and put nothing into the interaction. I also found people who were chill af and only took 1-2 items. And to your point about nation leaders not wanting bandits, subjectively who wants bandits banditing their nation? That's why you have a military. 

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1 hour ago, Ark said:

It can be like a full time job creating roleplay and making settlements active on this server, it’s very disheartening to have that ruined because someone wants to do quick “bandit” roleplay under the guise of “making conflict for fun”. Most of the people who actually make cities active and do the leg work to give you settlements to harass, don’t enjoy the fact that bandits come in, attack their playerbases and typically act rotten in OOC.

 

This is an outdated and frankly worrying opinion of banditry for a moderator to hold. I can’t name any “muh bandit” roleplayer who isn’t heavily invested in a national or racial community, nor any bandit that uses a throwaway character to do such. I worry for people who actively look to create roleplay conflict on the server if the attitude of the moderators is that they’re “rotten” and damaging the server.  Maybe it would be healthier for the players of the server for you to reflect on where your attitudes towards banditry stem from, instead of being a dedicant to the outmoded idea of murderhobo banditry.

 

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Going to “ain’t this you?” your reply by throwing out an example where you tried to get players that your own nation was at war with to leave your nation tile when no villainy was occurring because their existence was “baiting raiding”. It is an example of your use of your elevated position as moderator to try to remove any potential source of conflict towards your home nation.

 

Your prejudices toward people who favour conflict or bandit orientated roleplay might come from a place of preservation or respect for your full-time job of running a 250x250 Minecraft nation, but it is a hostile and dangerous opinion to publish and should be used as evidence to refuse your judgement should players receive you as a moderator during conflict RP. I would not expect bandit roleplayers to receive fair nor equal treatment from a moderator who, unprompted, calls them damaging to the server.

 

1 hour ago, Ark said:

I do not see why people who put in countless hours to make a healthy roleplay community and environment for those on the server deserve to have it terrorized by people who feel like they have some god-given right to attack another community constantly.

 

Yes, punish those who take the conflict too far and break the rules, but publishing sweeping generalisations from a point of authority only leads to the current state of uncooperate out-of-character loathing continuing. Don’t try to minority report pre-emptively punish people by titrating banditry into a non-event by constantly tightening the rules.It would be better and healthier for the server for you to acknowledge and redress the problems in your position as moderator instead of blogposting to stoke the flames of mutual dislike that are leading to the current state of server conflict.

 

Saying “bandits BAD 😞 settlements GOOD 🙂” is an empty aphorism that does nothing but continue to separate two playerbases that should be working cohesively to generate entertaining, engaging and enjoyable roleplay. 

 

Maybe if this attitude changes in some distant future the state of banditry on the server can be repaired, but the lingering prejudices of the staff-team against some phantom “ever-bandit” do nothing to resolve it.

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Bandit rp is fun when people are not too proud to lose. I wouldn't mind losing an inventory just because I got caught off guard. Same with the bandit side. When things don't work out as planned, no need to get angry about it. It is mostly how chill you are or how much you don't like the opposite side. I have seen a weird dude attacking the same place in same manner for at least 20 times. It was just annoying after some point.

 

Raiding, banditting is only fun when people act accordingly to RP. Bandits live their life by this so most of the time they actually can choose to let you go in exchange for one or two items or some money. If you have items in your inventory that you don't want to lose, just offer them something else and hope for a relaxed bandit. I've been on the server nearly for 1 year and I can assure you bandits and defenders bot expect mass level of toxicity and weird troll roleplay. When you act accordingly, you might get a reasonable response. 

 

Only problem I've had with bandits and raiders are throw away characters. Dying has literally no impact on Lotc. Nation leaders joining for unimportant skirmishes or raiding or banditting is weird concept for me. In my opinion, when you do something dangerous, you should be ready for the consequences. How can you expect the opposite party to give in to your demands or pk in an assassination attempt when you don't make the same commitment? I surely wouldn't pk or play in a relaxed state to "Methas Shaw" who died at least 15 times by my characters hand and more from others. 

 

tl;dr

Don't expect to win everytime, try and be chill about the conflict and actually roleplay actually if you are risking your life on the attempt visa versa

 

 

Edit: Rules do suck because most of the time they are influenced to a side whichever that side might be. 

Edited by Arcean
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who are we kidding mickael we know staff wont ever give us the conflict rules we want

 

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I’m gonna say I don’t 100% agree with mick here, I find it a bit over the top to idealize bandits as people who are creating roleplay out of the good of their hearts. They do it because it’s fun. Simple. Problem is, this fun is inherently always contentious and going to start problems, so you gotta strike a balance in how rules work with banditry.

If you want my personal take on it, losing in banditry isn’t even the problem really. The thing I dislike about road banditry is there are never any consequences to it. They almost always kill the person they just beat, and if you make an effort to hunt them down the most you can do is just kill them. At least with new robbery rules I suppose there’s a chance you could find a bandit hideout and take **** back, but then all the minas are gone too. The bandit just transfers it to their other persona or even more boldly just renames the persona and starts playing it as a different character.

Just make rules that force there to be a possibilty of further RP from it. That consequences are not impossible to avoid. Stop saying bandits are saints, stop saying they’re demons.

EDIT: Whoever tf pointed out grammatical errors as sign of bad rp, your a silly man

EDIT 2: To be clear, my personal experience hasn’t been very much since Atlas as that was when I traveled roads a lot more. And also, I mean this less of an absolute that there are NEVER any consequences, some bois do the banditing well. But others do it poorly, and if any rules are to be put in place I think they should limit the inherent problems of banditry not just making it less frequent.

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oh it’s that time of lotc again where we act like bandits and “””ROAD RP””” are good or enjoyable for anyone except the aggressive party

 

sure it should be something that people can go out and do, but the rules should be centered around making sure the aggressive party isn’t just trying to meme on some people trying to RP, for their items or to just kill and flex on them real quick (with still trying to be fair to both somewhat, i’m not agreeing with the current rollplay stuff, etc.)

 

there’s always a conflict of interest with bandits interrupting someone/a group that’s RPing as it’s always about items or just killing the enemy and guess what, neither of those provide any good RP to the victim which is likely what they’re seeking on lotc (or else they’d be trying to bandit people too lmao) (also yes killing on lotc is just stale and doesnt do much for anyone)

 

like we don’t have to pretend like bandits have some grand RP reason, they usually don't, its either minecraft item greediness or to just slaughter someone for an rp grudge/magic fuel and neither of those results really provide much RP to the victim, BUT the rules should focus on making sure the victim can find it enjoyable, whether that be deciding pvp/rp combat, etc. though not to the current extent (at least in regards to being able to force current rolling standards, etc. not too sure about raiding stuff)

 

we’re like always in a cycle of bandits complain about being restrained from bandit stuff → restraints are lessened → people/nation gets abused into complaining themselves → restraints are heightened back to prior or made even tighter. there needs to be a better balance between allowing bandits/raiding parties/etc. to go wild on people and the defender’s control of the OOC circumstances (probably excluding rollplay or at least the wound determinants would help). like people are either gonna get clicked with really bad, no-effort emotes to engage on them for their items or just for the sake of being killed, or both parties get locked into an hours long CRP fight where no one wants to die and its just a stall battle until someone metas their way to help one of the sides, … or the current rollplay hell where you might lose to RNG but it’ll still be stall-y as hell

 

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It needs to be said that people need to learn how to be a villain. I’m ok with bandit groups and general villainy if it serves a purpose to rp. Most bandit and bandit groups over the last couple years have not added anything to the narrative, but if I’m being honest, I would not say that is completely their fault. There really hasn’t been a way for them to really evolve past simple pvp groups which I would say is just a general server issue. I don’t really mind these new conflict rules, but to be frank I haven’t really peered them over yet. 

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3 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

why conflict matters:

 

it doesnt

 

Without conflict, no driving narrative exists. 

 

Conflict is quite literally essential to the server.

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17 minutes ago, Hanrahan said:

why conflict matters:

 

it doesnt

 

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The new rules only just got implemented. I say we give it some time to see how things play out, who knows, maybe these rules might actually improve the server. And if not? That’s alright, right back to the drawing board.

 

 

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My personal take is that banditry is an education problem. If you’re going to be a wizard, a warrior, or a scholar, you’re typically entering a support structure. There are established players in your niche that can show you the ropes and tell you what not to do. If a particular someone is acting out, fingers can almost always be pointed back to the person who failed to train them right.

 

The PvP element of banditry removes that social privilege. Settlement dwellers don’t incorporate bandits in the social fabric of their roleplaying community; frequently, bandits are seen as the complete antithesis. Settlement dwellers give no room for forgiveness and almost always assume the ulterior motive that the bandit just wants to PvP and take their items. And if enough people assume that, why should this bandit care about roleplay quality? Why should they really cooperate with these hostile, selfish roleplayers?

 

Banditry is an essential part of roleplay. Life isn’t safe – it was more so perilous in ancient times. Banditry encourages settlements to group their brains together and plan better cities, foster militaries, and create social cohesion. This healthy result is going to keep coming about in a toxic process until bandits are seen as part of the roleplay community.

 

The solution? We need to talk about it more. We need forum guides that train fledgling bandits. We need nation leaders to teach cooperation to their playerbase, and we need bandit leaders to discipline their fledglings and give a standard to all bandits out there.

 

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19 hours ago, Ggt said:

Punish poor sportsmanship.

 

This is my opinion. I also believe that defenders and raiders should be permitted to have equal numbers. And that once a raid is finished, the players if they win can do some minor damage/minor looting, and then be “pushed out” by a larger city watch force of NPCs to ensure that a raid timer is placed and the settlement is more heavily guarded as a consequence of the attack.

 

On top of this, raids should be an instant CB for the Defender, and raids should not occur without a solid role-play basis such as rescue, intent on going agro on another nation-state, etcetera. 

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Banditry and roadside rp died with big maps, change my mind.

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Another more recent thought I’ve developed on the matter of banditry is that the real reason it is so frowned upon is because people don’t like to lose. There are good legitimate reasons for banditry in RP, whether it’s someone’s chosen way to amass wealth, or banditing a specific nation because of an old unsettled grudge. The problem I have with a lot of LOTC in general is that most / many people only care about the progression of their character and view anything that causes the character loss in any way negatively OOC. What people fail to realize is that LOTC is a game and in true traditional fashion, games have winners and losers. People that are getting butthurt just because their characters lost some items to a bandit or even died are being unreasonable. 

TLDR: People complaining about getting bandited are just butthurt and need to acknowledge that losing is a part of games.

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If you want to live your character’s life in peace just join the Monks at Cloud Temple. LoTC especially in origin I believe is more of a semi-hardcore mode with some circumstance of PK, but it hasn’t seemed that way of recent times.


Bandits and Mercenaries would be common-folk outside of cities barely getting by as they’d rather work under their own banner and in their own camps rather than under a pompous Lord and strict Laws.


No single community should be subject to evading challenges or combat regardless if you consider yourself passively peaceful, or use rule rewrites to get your way and left undisturbed. No matter what society a character lives in the grievous actions of foreign lands are always just at the bay of your borders or walls. Each has their own destiny, and while people like bandits can hinder the path at the very least they nor anyone else could put your character to ruin due to Cloud Temple revival. People should be able to make almost unlimited experiences, getting into trouble, dying and restarting again except under the circumstances where PK is involved. Most of the time though, conflict rules don’t really reflect revival and rather worry about the harassments of some communities.

 

A lot of focus I think plays heavily in the extreme role-play aspect of things. I think role-play should be more consistent in your dialogue and interaction of character, than a paragraph between text and emotes. It complicates it further especially when PvP under uncooperative circumstances can resort to being pushed through a role-play plugin which can be easily confusing especially when magic is involved.

 

Rules should be basic and practical enough to hold temporary peace and recovery after battle, but it should be ambitious enough to allow player’s to gain experience, have fun and participate, without holding a leash around their necks. Nobody wants to hear the fun of their friends going raiding, just to be told they can’t participate because of a tiny raid cap. If they are going to do something risky, might as well have the most fun and participation in it. It makes it worse when there are 21+ different rules you have to abide by that may overlap, or get you in trouble where you might not expect it.

 

 

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