Your View: Necromancy, Undead, and Everything In-Between

[The King Of The Moon 5121]

Ah yes, Necromancy is bad because the players behind it aren't opting to practice on a PVP server for 2 hours a day and are instead roleplaying, yuck!!

You told them @drfate786, what a flaming hot take!

[drfate786 1639]

2 hours ago, Ambduscias said:

real gamers remember the dark ages, when ghoul CAs were handed out like candy and there were swarms of 10+ PC undead on the roads actively terrorizing people. it's not a matter of the posts to drain, or how strong it is -- it's a matter of the peoples' willingness to actively use it and make it an entity in the world rather than another magic slot.

 

Exactly, the only reason this was an "issue" is because the main clique didn't agree with it and the RP quality dropped to bandit RP. It wasn't the lore, it was the community.

Just now, The King Of The Moon said:

Ah yes, Necromancy is bad because the players behind it aren't opting to practice on a PVP server for 2 hours a day and are instead roleplaying, yuck!!

You told them @drfate786, what a flaming hot take!

 

They have no presence in the lore/history of modern LoTC and would rather hide in hidey holes whispering "Fear teh old derk!" instead of actively being an entity in the world. As stupid as it might sound, yeah.. They need to start learning how to PVP so that if conflict RP calls to it they will have the ability to win and continue the RP.

 

This is and always has been the state of the server since 3-4 maps ago. Magic RP'er or not, if you go for a nation roleplayer they will always call PVP on you and use whatever rules they can to stop your RP from affecting theirs. You have to be ready to PVP if default is called, you can't cry victim when the only victim is the player's ego.

[Vangroth 39]

16 hours ago, Narthok said:

Honestly the solution is to just keep killing people to attack you until they learn to be scared. This might require the recruitment of a few sympathetic homies willing to rp as skeletons etc

I don't think undead were ever strong enough to compete with nations with solid militaries, and that's what you're dealing with half the time. God forbid you'd catch someone on the roads, five minutes later half the nearby nation's military shows up and you get PvP'd. Besides, i've tried the whole "make them afraid" tactic. It just ends up with more people wanting you dead and just trying to hunt you down in larger and larger groups. The whole "protag" thing that was mentioned above is quite common.

[Narthok 9213]

1 minute ago, Vangroth said:

I don't think undead were ever strong enough to compete with nations with solid militaries, and that's what you're dealing with half the time. God forbid you'd catch someone on the roads, five minutes later half the nearby nation's military shows up and you get PvP'd. Besides, i've tried the whole "make them afraid" tactic. It just ends up with more people wanting you dead and just trying to hunt you down in larger and larger groups. The whole "protag" thing that was mentioned above is quite common.

I'm fairly sure there have been multiple occasions of undead either destroying whole cities or murdering armies. 

[drfate786 1639]

1 minute ago, Vangroth said:

I don't think undead were ever strong enough to compete with nations with solid militaries, and that's what you're dealing with half the time. God forbid you'd catch someone on the roads, five minutes later half the nearby nation's military shows up and you get PvP'd. Besides, i've tried the whole "make them afraid" tactic. It just ends up with more people wanting you dead and just trying to hunt you down in larger and larger groups. The whole "protag" thing that was mentioned above is quite common.

 

Dungeons man, as cliche as it may sound there's a reason they're used. Baiting them to an area where you have dominion is a pretty good tactic.

Just now, Narthok said:

I'm fairly sure there have been multiple occasions of undead either destroying whole cities or murdering armies. 

 

Not cities, those were lore team events. Murdering armies? Only accomplished when the players bait the opposing force into a dungeon and use traps and chokepoints to down them.

[Narthok 9213]

2 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

 

Dungeons man, as cliche as it may sound there's a reason they're used. Baiting them to an area where you have dominion is a pretty good tactic.

 

Not cities, those were lore team events. Murdering armies? Only accomplished when the players bait the opposing force into a dungeon and use traps and chokepoints to down them.

No i'm pretty sure people like onslaughted on his graven or whatever persona used to slaughter 20+ people

[Vangroth 39]

1 minute ago, drfate786 said:

Dungeons man, as cliche as it may sound there's a reason they're used. Baiting them to an area where you have dominion is a pretty good tactic.

Last time we did that, fate, we ended up falling into those holes more themselves than anyone else since the gates were always closed. Besides, remember when we lured a cleric near our cave? He somehow solo'd 8 of us IRP for half a hour. Bad Kary. Bad.

[Caelria 2618]

I don't think I've ever once had a positive IC or OOC experience with a necromancer. Positive IC meaning productive, interesting, or valuable to the development of my stories or characters; positive OOC meaning amicable or enjoyable (and not laden with rules lawyering and self-aggrandizing as conversations with necros so often are).

 

I don't think the problem is with the magic. I think the problem is with the players.

 

You've rewritten necro approximately one kazillion times. Every time people hate them. Maybe it's just full of unlikable or frustrating people, dawg.

[Vangroth 39]

Just now, Caelria said:

I don't think I've ever once had a positive IC or OOC experience with a necromancer. Positive IC meaning productive, interesting, or valuable to the development of my stories or characters; positive OOC meaning amicable or enjoyable (and not laden with rules lawyering and self-aggrandizing behavior as conversations with necros so often are).

 

I don't think the problem is with the magic. I think the problem is with the players.

 

You've rewritten necro approximately one kazillion times. Every time people hate them. Maybe it's just full of unlikable or frustrating people, dawg.

People themselves are a big chunk of it, yes, but quite often how the lore's designed can render people to be seen as 'frustrating' and such. Back when i was an undead, i've had good relationships OOC'ly, of course with both ascended and clerics, IC we were mortal enemies, but it didn't hold each of the communities from throwing crap at one another, calling each other toxic and such. There's bad apples in every basket. Necromantic community isn't the only one nor is the one with most "frustrating people". Far from it.

[DrakeHaze. 2482]

I'd like to add a bit more to the discussion to detract from ppl shitting on the current oldheads in charge or necromancy.

I've been reading through this thread and have come to understand a bit more about whats been going on with necromancy over the course of the server kinda. I feel like the solution that would be best for everyone is something that is not achievable due to current culture climate on LoTC, straight up. We've been through this song and dance before when it comes to conflict on LoTC and all the different mindsets involved with it. You want to know why conflict doesn't work on LoTC? Because none of you involved are friends OOCly.

RP is cooperative, and is always best between friends because then both sides are willing to sacrifice for the others' enjoyment. I don't exactly like that it has to be that way, but over my 10 years here the majority of the fun encounters and storylines are only ever done through friendship. No through some OOC contract and rules. If you want to do antag like things and retain your sanity while enjoying the time you put in for yourself and others, you need to be sitting in a discord with the people in opposition to you and literally just play other games with them and get to know eachother. But honestly thats a real pain in the ass and likely very draining for most people.

You can, however, look at this in a slightly different way. For each community on LoTC there are players that are well liked and respected. Why not befriend those people and see if they are interested in doing necromancy for THEIR community, with you as their roleplay leader? Yall need to be making some slick PR moves like that. Those communities are WAAAAAY less likely to **** on their respected friend and also less likely to metagame them. 

There is no mutual respect between randoms on the internet. Especially in gaming.

I'd also like to throw my hat into the ring for necromancy so drop me a line DrakeHaze#5150

[drfate786 1639]

27 minutes ago, Vangroth said:

Last time we did that, fate, we ended up falling into those holes more themselves than anyone else since the gates were always closed. Besides, remember when we lured a cleric near our cave? He somehow solo'd 8 of us IRP for half a hour. Bad Kary. Bad.

 

Kary was powergaming and got shat on by the LT for that. The holes were bad design but did stop a wood elf raid once. The only reason ya'll kept falling and dying is because you were all too dumb to ask for door perms or didn't realize we had four sets of iron doors to the side and only had to ask for perms.

Edited June 1, 2021 by drfate786

[Olandyr 452]

My input, irrelevant of the conversation above, is that a lot of the problems with Necromancy (as a magic) isn't actually the magic itself, but rather it's the community that holds it and the community that reacts to it. What is the point in being an antagonist if you can't even have fun doing that? It seems that a lot of people are keen to disregard RP and development of others if it means if they can metagame and be the protagonist that way, by 'slaying all the spooks'. As for the Necromancers themselves, I have little to say, though I agree with some of the above in that it's an increasing circlejerk until there are such an inconsequential amount of Necromancers they cant do much, and those who can dont want to.

[rukio 8910]

2 hours ago, JustGrim said:

I am simply amazed and awestruck that you can take something so simple and make it out like I'm trying to insult the entire community. I never said a Goon can not be good at rp as many are if you ACTUALLY read what I said - I said " and being realistic there are not many goons that come to mind that are good at PvP and RP and want to play an undead". Please tell me Mr Fate, have you met someone who says "Wow I really want to play an undead!" and wants to play someone's servant who can barely do anything besides when the Necromancer calls for them. It is simply not very fun especially when people metagame constantly on undead players as the tells are very obvious. I have asked many of the people I know who are goons and very good rpers if they want to be undead, very few even show interest as it is not the NICHE they are interested in.

 

I never once said we refuse to teach someone as I give everyone a chance who wants it unless they give me a reason not to. If anyone DARES to try and dictate rp it is you with mixing words to fit your own narrativize. Very few of us care if someone splits of and starts their own coven - LET THEM.

 

Don't mix my words and don't put words into my mouth without actually reading what I said.

I'm awestruck that you would argue with drfate

[King_Kunuk 888]

Said my piece over discord to Sorcerio, but thought I would put it here

Read through necro lore and spells, what seems to be the biggest deal is the lack of versatility that allows for necros to hold their own in any situation

The currently lore for it doesn't need so much of a total rewrite, rather it could use some updating, as well as maybe put the necros into the hands of someone who can actively lead them. Personally when i joined the server, the one dark magic that I had always wanted to try my hand in, even for a short while, was necromancy: but it feels nearly impossible to try so at the current moment. I hope that if a necro rewrite does happen, I will be able to see the masters of undeath in action, ether fighting against or with them!

[antiopa 131]

my opinion is that necromancy should of stayed shelved after loregames and should be shelved again, why is it every time this magic is brought back its only made worse and more of a joke then before... stop beating the dead horse just let it ******* die my god