Your View: Necromancy, Undead, and Everything In-Between

[latte 1310]

circle jerked to inactivity. 

[drfate786 1639]

8 minutes ago, latte said:

circle jerked to inactivity. 

 

Pretty much, they're also so afraid of antagonism and conflict that they'd rather hide and not recruit Randoms then risk getting found out.

[exanimated 1360]

I'm going to say this is as one of the few active Necromancer players - I do not hide oocly I have necro nor should anyone but there is a drawback when it comes to trying to be an antag irp. Every single I have attempted to cause conflict with someone it ends in them calling PvP default the second I start a flavour emote. You can say 'Oh that is just side of the road villiany' and you would be correct. Kidnapping people inside cities to cause some kind of issue is impossible, they shout no matter what the emote is and people just appear, causing a famine is meaningless because maybe one person will rp it exists.

 

Second off, when we try to begin causing any form of conflict it is normally stopped within days of it getting barely off the ground - most recently I can think to yong ping where we attempted to cause issues as an alliance between Necromancer and Mystics. We created a hidden tunnel into the city and prepared to cause issues through rp with PRO permission. Yet what happens? The tunnel is found and instead of leading to rp it leads a modreq and it being filled even though there was PRO permissions.

 

I understand people want us to be your antagonists that you can kill and get your wonderful story out of. You want us to be your enemy that you hunt as we cause plagues, famine, and death around the world. I have no issue being the side piece in someone else's character's story, but you need to let us cause conflict if you want it to occur. Not all of us necromancer want to just sit around and do nothing, but it is unrewarding and makes me lose motivation when the consequences of rp are just ignored and no one does anything with it.

 

All of that said, if a settlement leader wants something done, events with undead, a plague, a famine, message me on discord (Jax#6776) so we can sort something out where the outcome and consequences actually matter. As many have said we have been inactive for far too long, but please remember that we have **** we deal with attempting to be villains that bring more than just bandit rp and mediocre rp.

[BDanecker 858]

Mystics are based, I'll say that much 

[1_Language_1 1671]

I just don't like how people snuff out people instantly because really it's not conducive to rp if we just kill someone pvply or poorly kill someone cause then they don't keep any injuries. So maybe instead of killing the necros and liches, just beat them within an inch of their unlife and cripple them so that it creates more roleplay. Torture them Everytime you see them, it creates a super slow death and gives a meaningful roleplay experience And actually can cause some sweet rp angst of the possibility the lich will come back for revenge.

[drfate786 1639]

1 hour ago, JustGrim said:

I'm going to say this is as one of the few active Necromancer players - I do not hide oocly I have necro nor should anyone but there is a drawback when it comes to trying to be an antag irp. Every single I have attempted to cause conflict with someone it ends in them calling PvP default the second I start a flavour emote. You can say 'Oh that is just side of the road villiany' and you would be correct. Kidnapping people inside cities to cause some kind of issue is impossible, they shout no matter what the emote is and people just appear, causing a famine is meaningless because maybe one person will rp it exists.

 

Second off, when we try to begin causing any form of conflict it is normally stopped within days of it getting barely off the ground - most recently I can think to yong ping where we attempted to cause issues as an alliance between Necromancer and Mystics. We created a hidden tunnel into the city and prepared to cause issues through rp with PRO permission. Yet what happens? The tunnel is found and instead of leading to rp it leads a modreq and it being filled even though there was PRO permissions.

 

I understand people want us to be your antagonists that you can kill and get your wonderful story out of. You want us to be your enemy that you hunt as we cause plagues, famine, and death around the world. I have no issue being the side piece in someone else's character's story, but you need to let us cause conflict if you want it to occur. Not all of us necromancer want to just sit around and do nothing, but it is unrewarding and makes me lose motivation when the consequences of rp are just ignored and no one does anything with it.

 

All of that said, if a settlement leader wants something done, events with undead, a plague, a famine, message me on discord (Jax#6776) so we can sort something out where the outcome and consequences actually matter. As many have said we have been inactive for far too long, but please remember that we have **** we deal with attempting to be villains that bring more than just bandit rp and mediocre rp.

 

Here's a solution: Be good at PVP. If they want to PVP goon you, have your own PVP goons at the ready. You can abduct ANYONE you down. That means if a nation throws 20 PVP'ers at you and you down them all you'll have 20 prisoners to bring back to your lair and some of them might convert if you can turn them undead or make them into cultists with an allure of power.

 

In reality, what you guys need is strong leadership and more players. You can't expect nations to give you **** freely, you have to fight tooth and nail and expect the same in turn. This is why a partial re-write is needed, the current lore is too nerfed in that it doesn't allow the required antagonism that is needed. You need the ability to turn a nations numbers against them or it simply doesn't work out.

33 minutes ago, 1_Language_1 said:

I just don't like how people snuff out people instantly because really it's not conducive to rp if we just kill someone pvply or poorly kill someone cause then they don't keep any injuries. So maybe instead of killing the necros and liches, just beat them within an inch of their unlife and cripple them so that it creates more roleplay. Torture them Everytime you see them, it creates a super slow death and gives a meaningful roleplay experience And actually can cause some sweet rp angst of the possibility the lich will come back for revenge.

 

One time in Norland, we arrested a witch who attempted to kill Tyr Faretto. My character wanted her eyes taken and tongue cut out so she couldn't cast spells anymore. This was deemed "far too extreme" while death or exile was apparently more "acceptable" even though they tried to kill someone and represented everything we were against. 

[Delmodan 852]

There's so many things to say here that I could literally go on for months, but I'll try to keep it short. 

 

One thing I'll point out is that Necromancy had issues well before the lore games or even Flam getting leadership. It's issues and the players involved have been quite something for years where if you look back at the rewrite attempts and discussions that went on, you'll see it.  

 

But what it comes down too is it's community and the willingness to actually update their lore and change it where it's balanced and not so chokehold by two-five highly inactive people to whom never get on. Yet they threaten and massively control said group from an ooc level to the point where necros can't do anything or fear of getting suddenly rogue DC'd. 

 

I literally can't count the number of times I've had necros come to me with this issue and the hundreds of other issues. Several on this very thread did so at least and more. I remember the literal split of this community over inner fighting on how they even want this magic to be. The old versus the new. One group versus another. Three rewrites were literally up at one point because of all this. Not to mention the countless times of ST even trying to either give time for them to fix their issues or attempt to aid. The current rewrite I personally believe shouldn't have even passed but it did regardless. 

 

What it however comes down too is the community itself. Flam's lore games pissed them off and that is true. But necromancy isn't the sole magic that went through those games. The other magics that did,  many remained quite active and a few have had rewrites well pass the Flam era. The community of necromancy needs to actually come together to produce something more up to date and balanced. Or at the very least, get those few active left to work on what needs to be addressed if they want it to remain. 

 

Because nothing is preventing anyone from rewriting this lore. 

 

As far as the other issues, @SquakHawk summed it up pretty well. 

[exanimated 1360]

6 hours ago, drfate786 said:

 

Here's a solution: Be good at PVP. If they want to PVP goon you, have your own PVP goons at the ready. You can abduct ANYONE you down. That means if a nation throws 20 PVP'ers at you and you down them all you'll have 20 prisoners to bring back to your lair and some of them might convert if you can turn them undead or make them into cultists with an allure of power.

 

In reality, what you guys need is strong leadership and more players. You can't expect nations to give you **** freely, you have to fight tooth and nail and expect the same in turn. This is why a partial re-write is needed, the current lore is too nerfed in that it doesn't allow the required antagonism that is needed. You need the ability to turn a nations numbers against them or it simply doesn't work out.

Your suggestion makes sense but there is an issue as we want people who are good rpers as our Necromancers and undead servants, and being realistic there are not many goons that come to mind that are good at PvP and RP and want to play an undead. Necro is a niche magic that fills a specific slot and requires someone to want to fill that slot and not break the lore and culture we have behind it. Our current issues can not be solved by create 30 dark stalkers and just raiding people, if we do that we are nothing but bandits with magic.

[ydegirl 1757]

(i know this isn't related that much but i saw pvp talk so heres my take.)

 

please make it so you can't pvp someone in a spooky rp situation. my only interaction on my frost witch was being gooned by some protaganists who didn't want their characters to die (which we couldn't make them pk). it was really annoying and one of the reasons why i dropped fw.

 

also not to mention trying to pvp ur way out of an rp situation makes no sense.

[Ambduscias 1027]

real gamers remember the dark ages, when ghoul CAs were handed out like candy and there were swarms of 10+ PC undead on the roads actively terrorizing people. it's not a matter of the posts to drain, or how strong it is -- it's a matter of the peoples' willingness to actively use it and make it an entity in the world rather than another magic slot.

[rukio 8910]

1 hour ago, MissAnneDrey said:

(i know this isn't related that much but i saw pvp talk so heres my take.)

 

please make it so you can't pvp someone in a spooky rp situation. my only interaction on my frost witch was being gooned by some protaganists who didn't want their characters to die (which we couldn't make them pk). it was really annoying and one of the reasons why i dropped fw.

 

also not to mention trying to pvp ur way out of an rp situation makes no sense.

God yes, make the azdrazi pvpers irrelevant again 🍵

[Twinny 1618]

4 hours ago, JustGrim said:

Your suggestion makes sense but there is an issue as we want people who are good rpers as our Necromancers and undead servants, and being realistic there are not many goons that come to mind that are good at PvP and RP and want to play an undead. Necro is a niche magic that fills a specific slot and requires someone to want to fill that slot and not break the lore and culture we have behind it. Our current issues can not be solved by create 30 dark stalkers and just raiding people, if we do that we are nothing but bandits with magic.

I mean the issue here is who you class as people that are "good rpers". There's a lot of people (pvp goon department) who would probably find a good amount of enjoyment and new side to lotc if they were fighting for a dark mage circle such as necromancers. The issue here is that you could just as easily guide and aid a pvper on the server to help fit the niche and behave accordingly.

Gamma's little group raids people, and constantly raided Sutica and it caused some good rp after. There was also some interesting rp that happened during these raids with misc players littered around- like @altiar1011offering my persona a trade for their stuff.

if you want suggestions @The60thPvpis a good one.

Whilst I understand gate keeping necromancy to a degree- this is absolutely the case IMO:
 

 

13 hours ago, latte said:

circle jerked to inactivity. 

 

[drfate786 1639]

4 hours ago, JustGrim said:

Your suggestion makes sense but there is an issue as we want people who are good rpers as our Necromancers and undead servants, and being realistic there are not many goons that come to mind that are good at PvP and RP and want to play an undead. Necro is a niche magic that fills a specific slot and requires someone to want to fill that slot and not break the lore and culture we have behind it. Our current issues can not be solved by create 30 dark stalkers and just raiding people, if we do that we are nothing but bandits with magic.

 

Your insulting the entire community then. This is exactly what got it shelved in the first place. Put some trust in the community and let them RP with it or enjoy five years of inactivity before re-writes and further shelving occur. Ya'll had an entire year to get it active again after the re-write.

 

"They're just PVP goons and can't RP! They don't want to play an undead!"

 

-Too bad, they'll learn to RP properly when needed and it's your responsibility as a magic RP'er to make sure they do. There is actually a market for undead PVP'ers, it's just ya'll haven't created it nor do you want one. In all due reality, you'd rather deceive everyone on the forums by stating that you do or are neutral in the matter when in fact your community is not.

 

-The wider necro community has always hoarded the magic and refused to let anyone outside their friend groups interact with it. When I got it because of what was basically a Necro revolt/schism the whole "community" was sent into an uproar and literally made demands from the LT while spastically screaming into the void. This hasn't changed, I have my sources. Same toxicity, same hoarding, same inactivity, same everything. The only difference is that the disliked players were gacked in favor of minmaxers that in the past would put their phylacteries into inter-dimensional void rifts that only they could access so no one could get to them.

 

"It's a niche!"

 

https://gyazo.com/e030e54ecd85b8b3776f4e05d30f8650

 

-By this definition, Necro is in fact NOT a niche. Just because it fills most of a person's magic slots does not mean it's a niche, it just means ya'll are bad at using it and can't find any uses for it aside from the "niche" you've forced upon it. There's a lot of avenues with Necro as it's effectively a variety of different magics, IE plagues, curses, etc.

 

"We don't want them to break the lore and culture we have behind it!"

 

-Too bad, we didn't want the Caedricssons to break the lore and culture we had in Norland but they did it anyway. We also didn't want to "lose" the war of the two emps but we did anyway. Really, how DARE YOU try to dictate RP. They will RP as they please and will use Necro in the same manner as their character would. If someone learns necro and grabs a few friends to split off, good. Deal with it in RP and don't meta by refusing to teach someone IRP who should be taught on the OOC basis that they may split off as soon as they can. Division can be a good thing, especially when the magic is stagnate and some of the teachers inactive.

 

All I see here are excuses and inaction, the same shitty behavior that got it shelved in the first place.

 

@Sorcerio You have your solutions written for you right here my man. It's not really the magic that's at fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[exanimated 1360]

11 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

 

Your insulting the entire community then. This is exactly what got it shelved in the first place. Put some trust in the community and let them RP with it or enjoy five years of inactivity before re-writes and further shelving occur. Ya'll had an entire year to get it active again after the re-write.

 

"They're just PVP goons and can't RP! They don't want to play an undead!"

 

-Too bad, they'll learn to RP properly when needed and it's your responsibility as a magic RP'er to make sure they do. There is actually a market for undead PVP'ers, it's just ya'll haven't created it nor do you want one. In all due reality, you'd rather deceive everyone on the forums by stating that you do or are neutral in the matter when in fact your community is not.

 

-The wider necro community has always hoarded the magic and refused to let anyone outside their friend groups interact with it. When I got it because of what was basically a Necro revolt/schism the whole "community" was sent into an uproar and literally made demands from the LT while spastically screaming into the void. This hasn't changed, I have my sources. Same toxicity, same hoarding, same inactivity, same everything. The only difference is that the disliked players were gacked in favor of minmaxers that in the past would put their phylacteries into inter-dimensional void rifts that only they could access so no one could get to them.

 

"It's a niche!"

 

https://gyazo.com/e030e54ecd85b8b3776f4e05d30f8650

 

-By this definition, Necro is in fact NOT a niche. Just because it fills most of a person's magic slots does not mean it's a niche, it just means ya'll are bad at using it and can't find any uses for it aside from the "niche" you've forced upon it. There's a lot of avenues with Necro as it's effectively a variety of different magics, IE plagues, curses, etc.

 

"We don't want them to break the lore and culture we have behind it!"

 

-Too bad, we didn't want the Caedricssons to break the lore and culture we had in Norland but they did it anyway. We also didn't want to "lose" the war of the two emps but we did anyway. Really, how DARE YOU try to dictate RP. They will RP as they please and will use Necro in the same manner as their character would. If someone learns necro and grabs a few friends to split off, good. Deal with it in RP and don't meta by refusing to teach someone IRP who should be taught on the OOC basis that they may split off as soon as they can. Division can be a good thing, especially when the magic is stagnate and some of the teachers inactive.

 

All I see here are excuses and inaction, the same shitty behavior that got it shelved in the first place.

 

@Sorcerio You have your solutions written for you right here my man. It's not really the magic that's at fault.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am simply amazed and awestruck that you can take something so simple and make it out like I'm trying to insult the entire community. I never said a Goon can not be good at rp as many are if you ACTUALLY read what I said - I said " and being realistic there are not many goons that come to mind that are good at PvP and RP and want to play an undead". Please tell me Mr Fate, have you met someone who says "Wow I really want to play an undead!" and wants to play someone's servant who can barely do anything besides when the Necromancer calls for them. It is simply not very fun especially when people metagame constantly on undead players as the tells are very obvious. I have asked many of the people I know who are goons and very good rpers if they want to be undead, very few even show interest as it is not the NICHE they are interested in.

 

I never once said we refuse to teach someone as I give everyone a chance who wants it unless they give me a reason not to. If anyone DARES to try and dictate rp it is you with mixing words to fit your own narrativize. Very few of us care if someone splits of and starts their own coven - LET THEM.

 

Don't mix my words and don't put words into my mouth without actually reading what I said.

[drfate786 1639]

10 minutes ago, JustGrim said:

I am simply amazed and awestruck that you can take something so simple and make it out like I'm trying to insult the entire community. I never said a Goon can not be good at rp as many are if you ACTUALLY read what I said - I said " and being realistic there are not many goons that come to mind that are good at PvP and RP and want to play an undead". Please tell me Mr Fate, have you met someone who says "Wow I really want to play an undead!" and wants to play someone's servant who can barely do anything besides when the Necromancer calls for them. It is simply not very fun especially when people metagame constantly on undead players as the tells are very obvious. I have asked many of the people I know who are goons and very good rpers if they want to be undead, very few even show interest as it is not the NICHE they are interested in.

 

I never once said we refuse to teach someone as I give everyone a chance who wants it unless they give me a reason not to. If anyone DARES to try and dictate rp it is you with mixing words to fit your own narrativize. Very few of us care if someone splits of and starts their own coven - LET THEM.

 

Don't mix my words and don't put words into my mouth without actually reading what I said.

 

Don't mix my words and don't put words into my mouth either. You're playing a victim narrative while trying to deceptively paint anyone bashing that narrative as an aggressor. All your doing is proving my points.

 

Wow I really want to play an undead!" and wants to play someone's servant who can barely do anything besides when the Necromancer calls for them. It is simply not very fun especially when people metagame constantly on undead players as the tells are very obvious. I have asked many of the people I know who are goons and very good rpers if they want to be undead, very few even show interest as it is not the NICHE they are interested in.

 

It's not metagaming if your playing a literal walking corpse and someone calls you out. If you're wearing armor or a cloak to conceal it and they ask you to show your face at the city gates that is not meta, that is customary. Also, the reason they can't do anything besides for "when the necromancer" calls for them is because ya'll don't give them an hub to RP in nor do you give them anything to do on their own.

 

Player undead have no agency like nation players do. Give them that agency instead of complaining that they have nothing to do, this is literally a repeat of the last iteration. 

 

If anyone DARES to try and dictate rp it is you with mixing words to fit your own narrativize

 

Lol, just lol. Also, no.. They do care if someone splits off and starts their own coven. They will gas anyone that tries to split from the main coven because they're afraid of a repeat from the last iteration. You might not be aware of it but I have my sources.

 

Admit to your failures and the failures of the entire group or get ready for another shelf session and re-write at some point in the future. You can attack me, you can bite me you can do as you wish. Everything I say here is MY opinion and if that grabs your attention to the point where you feel the need to say I'm "mincing words" or whatever it is.. Then it only really makes these points I'm making even more valid. 

 

TLDR;

 

Get good or get shelved.