[✗] [Amendment] Water Evocation - Hitting it with a bus (of tweaks)

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

Post production note:

I am pretty sure I wish to make this as one of two posts, if LT willing they accept these changes, I will most likely produce a secondary post to adjust the threat of some of the spells, I do not want to see water evocation extremely strong or super deadly, however if the community makes an agreement to buff/nerf specific parts I am willing to help write a post to further that goal.

 

Preface:

I have been using water evocation since Axios, I have seen several different rewrites and guides submitted and used as the baseline. All of them have been messy and shoddy in structure. For the first two years I was using lore that specified you could have two emoted a chunk of ice the size of a torso at someone. It was broken, janky, old. Then we had some guides - not full lore, couldn't be that dedicated - to show us how to use it. Still, a bit janky and sore in places.

 

I have made several attempts at lore, truth be told I cannot write well enough and descriptive enough to keep it cohesive, the tyranny of he who shall not be named destroyed a lot of lore, masterpieces by some people even, hours of work and proofreading for others. In it he also attempted to supplement players with once again shoddily pieces of work by making his staff put it through. Now they are not to blame in my opinion, as I see they were forced to make lore to fill a void that he left. 

 

I went through Sorcerio's lore, its great, cute and neat. However when applied its slow, unwieldy and just not viable. Why spend three to conjure a shield of just water and fail, when I could dodge out the way, or hell teleport in one emote and be fine? It didn't work when it came to it. And that's what I'm trying to fix. I do not aim to make it overpowered, I'm not aiming to create a power creep - if anything I endorse other players, READ YOUR LORE, AMEND WHAT IS BROKEN. We are a community and we should work together to fix our stuff. - I intend on making this magic fun to use again, and fair to use again.

 

For the betterment of all puddlemancers, I give you my piece de resistance, my bus, a list of tweaks and changes to make it better for us.

 

 

SPELL LIST AND AMENDMENTS:

(blue highlights in original for where changing, red in amendments for bits changed or added)

 

 

Water Blast [C] - A decent spell however the blast was unspecified in force originally, literally said 'a descendants push' which could for instance be an olog shove or a halfling nudge? Secondly the casting was unspecified, am I blasting on the third or fourth emote?

Original:

Spoiler

• By conjuring forth a congregation of water, a water evocationist can send forth a jet or projectile of water to blast opponents backward. While not very physically damaging, it’s force is moderately strong possessing enough force to send one toppling backwards, though holding no more force than a descendant’s push, likely causing them to stumble back around [3] blocks if unprepared, or even cause them to fall over. This spell for the duration will keep pushing an individual (if able) to a maximum of fifteen blocks [15] before fizzling out.
• This spell can either appear as a ‘jet’ of water, or a sphere which may be cast towards an opponent. This may be modified aesthetically, though must remain in the general shape of a jet or globule of water.
• Requires three emotes to cast [1 connect + 2 cast] regardless of shape. The water blast itself may be held back for up to two emotes before needing to be fired lest it simply dissolved. The attack can be sustained for up to [4] emotes assuming the mage has adequate concentration and mana. 

Amendments:
 

Spoiler

By conjuring forth a congregation of water, a water evocationist can send forth a jet or projectile of water to blast opponents backward. Whilst the impact of this attack is not harsh enough to cause physical harm, the current and force is enough to force or push most common descendants back up to [3] blocks, depending on their weight and stance. Creatures of heavier dispositions, such as ologs, beings of stone, or those of ooze like qualities, may hardly loose footing or stumble at this blast, though may find it slightly disorientating.

 

Requires three emotes to cast [1 connect + 2 cast] regardless of shape and is usable on the third emote. The water blast itself may be held back for up to two emotes before needing to be fired lest it simply dissolved. The attack can be sustained for up to [4] emotes assuming the mage has adequate concentration and mana. 

 

Water Shield [C] - I think of this spell as a mage's attempt to block or prepare to block incoming fire, much alike a person running to cover, raising a shield or a translocationist teleporting away I believe it is more effective and in roleplay logical to decrease the casting time however also decrease the time it can be sustained, it is a panic defensive move.

Original

Spoiler

• A water evocationist may create a disc, wave, or shield of shifting water which can deflect some projectiles, such as arrows, and can also extinguish flaming projectiles, assuming they can be extinguished. 
• This spell requires three emotes to cast [1 connect + 2 form]. The water will appear to swirl about or rise upwards in a wave which will span no more than two meters in diameter. It may be sustained for up to [4] emotes before dissipating. This barrier will deflect projectiles traveling at the speed of an arrow or slower, as well as extinguishing flaming projectiles. 
• For aesthetic purposes, the shield may appear as a small wave, disc, or other barrier, so long as it holds no solidarity and offers no protection against melee attacks.

Within redlines

• The mage must dedicate their concentration to the shield. Performing other actions while maintaining the spell will cause it to drop.

Amendments: 

Spoiler

This spell requires two emotes to cast [1 connect + 1 form]. The water will appear to swirl about or rise upwards in a wave which will span no more than two meters in diameter. It may be sustained for up to [2] emotes before dissipating. This barrier will deflect projectiles traveling at the speed of an arrow or slower, as well as extinguishing flaming projectiles. 

 

Within redlines:

• The mage is able to move four [4] blocks per emote during the two emotes of it being sustained. This movement is performed as a slow meander in whatever direction they desire whilst they focus on the spell.

 

Water Whip [C] - I have actually tried using this in roleplay combat about three times since this lore has been released, each time failed. The casting time is just way too long for any in roleplay use, It takes less time to take out a bow, aim and shoot it than it does to prepare yourself a weapon that has the same power as just a normal whip.

Original

Spoiler

• A water evocationist who has learned to conjure ice can form a whip of water with spiked ice on the end. While being a [T3] spell, the ice will be rather crude and blunt, likely causing a few bruises should it hit. However, upon reaching [T4], a water evocationist may opt to make the ice more sharp, causing cuts, slashes, and even lacerations rather than providing blunt force.
  • Alternatively, a mage may create the whip out of pure water to lash at unprotected foes, leaving scratches and scrapes wherever it hit, as well as lashes.
• The spell requires three emotes to cast [1 connect + 2 cast]. The whip itself will not extend beyond eight blocks in length, the spikes on the end of it being no longer than four inches
• Water Whip can be maintained for an extended period of time compared to other spells due to its thin structure, typically holding out during a combat narrative if required and as long as connection is sustained.

Amendments:

Spoiler

The spell requires two emotes to cast [1 connect + 1 cast] and is usable from the third emote onwards. The whip itself will not extend beyond eight blocks in length, the spikes on the end of it being no longer than four inches

 

Ice Projectile [C] - Simple clause addition

Original:

Spoiler

• A water evocationist who can conjure ice may form shards of ice which they can use to throw at a target, either as one or multiple different projectiles.
  • The projectile/s themselves are typically baseball-sized.The shards can be either sharp or blunt. Should it be sharp, it would be equivalent to a simple ferrum sword in terms of sharpness, though able to be shattered easily if it comes into contact with blunt force. 
  • Blunt projectiles are less brittle, hitting at the force of a baseball going arrow speed, though typically do not shatter.
• Requires three emotes to cast [1 connect + 2 cast]. Additional projectiles require an additional emote to conjure, no more than five able to be charged at once. The more projectiles charged at once, the more blunt all of them become while simultaneously charged.
  • One projectile charged may be around the sharpness of your average ferrum blade.
  • Ice spikes may be capable of piercing unarmoured foes just as a regular blade would, but will likely only dent heavy plate, instead leaving a mild bruise where it hit regardless of sharpness.
• Multiple projectiles may be fired at once, however, they must all be within the mage’s line of sight at once and all be fired in the same direction if this is the case, lest they dematerialize. 

 

Amendments:

Spoiler

• Requires three emotes to cast [1 connect + 2 cast]. The projectile can be sent on the third emote. Additional projectiles require an additional emote to conjure, no more than five able to be charged at once. <removed this clause>
  • One projectile charged may be around the sharpness of your average ferrum blade.
  • Ice spikes may be capable of piercing unarmoured foes just as a regular blade would, but will likely only dent heavy plate, instead leaving a mild bruise where it hit regardless of sharpness.
• Multiple projectiles may be fired at once, however, they must all be within the mage’s line of sight at once and all be fired in the same direction if this is the case, lest they dematerialize. 

 

Water Wave [c] - (there's actually a typo in this that is on the original lore it says 1 connect + 3 form but prior says it requires five emotes to cast, rectified it here.

Original:

Spoiler

• A water evocationist can conjure a large wave of water which they may push towards their targets in an effort to send them backward. The spell itself is very destructive, pushing back both people and objects alike in a small area.
• The attack itself has a range of up to ten blocks, though can travel for up to fifteen once cast. The wave has a width of two blocks, though a length of up to five, constantly pushing whatever comes into contact with force equivalent to that of an orc constantly shoving the person backwards for as long as it is sustained.
• Requires five emotes to cast [1 connect + 3 form]. The wave can be maintained until it reaches its limit of fifteen blocks, though may disperse earlier if the mage’s concentration is disrupted.
• The spell itself, aesthetic wise, can be very creative. For example, one could make it appear as if there were a horse in the water running along with the wave.

Amendments:

Spoiler

Requires four emotes to cast [1 connect + 3 form] It is usable on the fourth emote. The wave can be maintained until it reaches its limit of fifteen blocks, though may disperse earlier if the mage’s concentration is disrupted.

 

 

Other spells not listed:

Spoiler

Ice Spikes [C] - No changes needed, I think it's actually the fairest spell.

Ice Dome [C] - No changes needed, also balanced

Hailstorm [C] - No changes needed, I found it funny this is the only spell that states when you can actually use the spell proper

 

[DISCOLIQUID 1963]

idk even with these changes seems wishy washy

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

4 minutes ago, DISCOLIQUID said:

idk even with these changes seems wishy washy

Changes made where I've tested, if you could do better do better, I'm at least chipping into the marble

 

Water Blast - Unspecified when usable or force, fixes applied.

Water Shield - Took too long to cast, was simply not viable for any defensive purposes, especially when any other magic - I believe including some other evocations might do it better (i.e. translocation 1 emote blink)

Water whip - never could pull it off as it just took too long, fixed accordingly. 4 emotes for a melee weapon you could just pull out? I reduced it to two emotes post connection with the idea the mage may not have it attached to their person, i.e. fixed to the floor in front of them. that extra distance between weapon and mage being the reason it costs more than just two emotes.

Ice projectile - Similar to water blast, fix applied

Water wave - Same as above.

 

It's changes made where I've seen changes needed. I think that's something people need to realise we can do as a community we can come back to things and fix them later.

 

 

[Morigung-oog 2348]

The changes look nice, but there's also some concerns I have. 2 emotes to hurl a sharp ice projectile makes bows redundant and may encourage spam casting. I think a lot more could be done to make water evo more on par with the other voidal evocations but I'm not sure reducing emote counts is the way.

 

I'd say make ice sharp at t3,  allow water to potentially scald for extra damage at t3+, encourage more extreme bludgeoning damage or spells that scale with tiers.

[PrimnyaQuorum 1036]

Nerf Water Evocation 

Looks neat! I just have a few questions regarding some stuff:

 

- Water Blast: It's mentioned that the spell can be sustained after casting - does each additional emote of casting this spell onto a target push it back a further six blocks?

- Water Shield: Is the barrier stationary, or does it move with the mage? Can the mage move while casting?

- Water Whip: How long does the Whip last? More opinionated, but - should the blunt end of a whip not cause more then a few bruises?

- Ice Projectile: I dont personally think the projectiles should become dulled the more projectiles summoned. If a Water Mage can spend six emoted uninterrupted charging 5 Ice Projectiles, their shouldn't be arbitrarily nerfed into having dull projectiles.

 

I like the changes overall, and I think its a step in the right direction, but Water Evo I've noticed tends to lack that little extra oomph other Evos have - Fire has its burns, Wind has its stuns and pushback - give water a little bit to make it a force to be reckoned with, no?

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

For any reference for how badly water evo is suffering:

Translocation:

Brisk step, 2 emotes and you can move 12 blocks instantly in a linear direction, PLUS you can also attack in with it (typically its agreed a player can move 8 per emote) I'd also like to add on top of this the clause in redlines is: "You may utilize any Voidal Shifting spell in tandem with swinging weaponry without disrupting connection in the same emote." So a 12 block blink with an attack involved in 2 emotes.

 

Earth evo:

Sand blast, 20 block distance, 2 emotes - Blinding attack to pretty much everyone in range

 

Air evo:

Air gust (stronger to water blast), 3 emotes 

Air evo redirect (similar to water shield), 2 EMOTES

 

 

7 minutes ago, Moribundity said:

The changes look nice, but there's also some concerns I have. 2 emotes to hurl a sharp ice projectile makes bows redundant and may encourage spam casting. I think a lot more could be done to make water evo more on par with the other voidal evocations but I'm not sure reducing emote counts is the way.

 

I'd say make ice sharp at t3,  allow water to potentially scald for extra damage at t3+, encourage more extreme bludgeoning damage or spells that scale with tiers.

 

@Mori I've fixed where, minor typo where I meant third emote as in connect + charge + cast it (same to draw aim shoot)

 

8 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

Nerf Water Evocation 

Looks neat! I just have a few questions regarding some stuff:

 

- Water Blast: It's mentioned that the spell can be sustained after casting - does each additional emote of casting this spell onto a target push it back a further six blocks?

- Water Shield: Is the barrier stationary, or does it move with the mage? Can the mage move while casting?

- Water Whip: How long does the Whip last? More opinionated, but - should the blunt end of a whip not cause more then a few bruises?

- Ice Projectile: I dont personally think the projectiles should become dulled the more projectiles summoned. If a Water Mage can spend six emoted uninterrupted charging 5 Ice Projectiles, their shouldn't be arbitrarily nerfed into having dull projectiles.

 

I like the changes overall, and I think its a step in the right direction, but Water Evo I've noticed tends to lack that little extra oomph other Evos have - Fire has its burns, Wind has its stuns and pushback - give water a little bit to make it a force to be reckoned with, no?

 

Thankies for all the pointing out bits, I'mma make some more adjustments so hold on people for extra changes

 

I'm also aware water evo has people writing new spells for it, if anyone wants to write steam additions o7

[sam33497 2793]

Water blast push is a bit too strong compared to every effect like it in other magics

 

2 emote ranged attacks should not be a thing in any lore, especially voidal ones which would allow you to cast every emote

 

Water shield change is fine

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

Adjustments added to most spells, nerfing water blast now to reduce distance moved @sam33497

 

- Done

 

p.s. please there isn't a 2 emote ice projectile it was me making a typo it's 3 emotes I promise

24 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

Nerf Water Evocation 

Looks neat! I just have a few questions regarding some stuff:

 

- Water Blast: It's mentioned that the spell can be sustained after casting - does each additional emote of casting this spell onto a target push it back a further six blocks?

- Water Shield: Is the barrier stationary, or does it move with the mage? Can the mage move while casting?

- Water Whip: How long does the Whip last? More opinionated, but - should the blunt end of a whip not cause more then a few bruises?

- Ice Projectile: I dont personally think the projectiles should become dulled the more projectiles summoned. If a Water Mage can spend six emoted uninterrupted charging 5 Ice Projectiles, their shouldn't be arbitrarily nerfed into having dull projectiles.

 

I like the changes overall, and I think its a step in the right direction, but Water Evo I've noticed tends to lack that little extra oomph other Evos have - Fire has its burns, Wind has its stuns and pushback - give water a little bit to make it a force to be reckoned with, no?

secondly quoting this again, I think for now I’m going to focus on getting the emote economy fair and from there go by community choice in a follow up expansive tweak for things concerning force and damage

[PrimnyaQuorum 1036]

1 hour ago, JustMeMorgan said:

Multiple projectiles may be fired at once, however, they must all be within the mage’s line of sight at once and all be fired in the same direction if this is the case, lest they dematerialize. 

Going through it one more time - other evocations with projectiles specify it's either one projectile in multiple directions across multiple emotes, or all projectiles in one direction in one emote. I don't see a good reason why Water Evo cant do the same with it's projectile spell(s)

[Ragnio 499]

10 hours ago, JustMeMorgan said:

SNIP

I am actually liking this. I have always felt like Water Evocation was a bit...slow to cast and use, but those small amendments might make a big difference. Good job so far!

[Luxury 603]

You can eliminate confusion by using this format [Connect + Charge + Cast] to represent what is occurring over the course of 3 emotes.

 

Otherwise, the buffs look pretty good and the clarifications are always nice. The two emote water shield will likely beat out other similar shield types that are considered staples in their magics.

 

Deflect from Air evo is comparable as a two emote spell, but it cannot be sustained.

 

Earthen Wall had been considered the top of the magic shield game. I think a sustained shield for ranged attacks will be more effective at 2 emotes regardless of lack of solidity.

 

An observation if nothing else. Though I think there is something to be said about the things each individual magic should be the best at to keep them niche and unique, and making sure this isn’t going to make Water evo objectively better at offense and defense.

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

1 hour ago, Luxury said:

You can eliminate confusion by using this format [Connect + Charge + Cast] to represent what is occurring over the course of 3 emotes.

 

Otherwise, the buffs look pretty good and the clarifications are always nice. The two emote water shield will likely beat out other similar shield types that are considered staples in their magics.

 

Deflect from Air evo is comparable as a two emote spell, but it cannot be sustained.

 

Earthen Wall had been considered the top of the magic shield game. I think a sustained shield for ranged attacks will be more effective at 2 emotes regardless of lack of solidity.

 

An observation if nothing else. Though I think there is something to be said about the things each individual magic should be the best at to keep them niche and unique, and making sure this isn’t going to make Water evo objectively better at offense and defense.

 

Very true about that, imo water evo is also quite a good defensive magic with lots of spells to do with movement of your opponent and defence, I just believe It'll be fair as well for them to also have a similar defensive spell as a result, seeing how all the other voidal magics have access to some form of quick-fire defence.

[Islamadon 4429]

This lore has been denied. You will be sent a forum PM regarding the reasons for denial within the next 24 hours.