PROBLEM PLAYER

[Unwillingly 18096]

unless bandits are proactive in their RP and go the extra mile of trying to give the player a lasting positive impression, I think the majority of bandit RP is just inherently undesirable to receive, even if the RP isn't necessarily low quality or the players aren't being OOCly belligerent. a lot of people care more about their pixels than their actual character, which is why in many cases people throw a bigger fit about losing their ST item than their character losing an entire arm in CRP and I think it's what makes bandit RP especially tedious. RPly it should be a good thing that all a bandit wants is your valuables, but OOCly people hate that all bandits want are your valuables

and I think it's that mindset that invokes the expectation of bandit RPers needing to be the people to go out of their way to make the encounter enjoyable. I don't really think it's wrong to desire a more enjoyable encounter, because who doesn't? but then it begs the question (considering recent conversation, particularly orlanth's comment on joel's thread) of how much we even should be trying to coddle players, and whether or not catering to this mindset of "you NEED to make the encounter enjoyable for me or you're a toxic player" is healthy for the server

 

Spoiler

also piggybacking off Islamadon't comment below is something I wholeheartedly agree with. historically pvpers don't really care about RP the way they care about pvp, and while I certainly think the ferrymen have their shortcomings, you guys do have people who care about both. from what I can remember, that's something we never saw from pvp groups from 2018-2019. those guys exclusively logged on for pvp and only pvp, they were there to d40 any RPers they saw and wouldn't leave until their enemy's city was a ghost town

you guys deviate from the standard a little bit through forum writing and harmless banter, which is cool, like I can't complain about that, just that you don't apply your collective identity to RP as much as you do OOCly. you guys are reactive and not proactive. take advantage of the fact that you guys actually have people who enjoy writing and RP, and make yourselves as much of an RP force as an OOC one

 

[Islamadon 9158]

Ferries as I see them can mostly be boiled down to boring bandana side-switchers in wars because they have nothing better to do, or because frail and faux machismo ego was challenged. If ferries spent as much time trying to build something productive and deep for the server as they do trying to destroy things or prop up terrible ooc back-door dealers, the server wouldn’t be in current state. 
 

Just do something constructive it isn’t hard, you guys could’ve forged your own kingdom and built something unique and set a trend; instead it’s just alt migration to other countries to prop up the junta of the week. It doesn’t matter if the people in the ferries are “chill” if their actions are ultimately detrimental. I will INVEST in $FRRY if they make something for once that isn’t zzz.

[Smmer 2441]

BIG YAP FEST INCOMING 

 

Having known these dweebs for almost a year now, I'll recount my experience from the start where I observed the ferrymen from the sidelines for a bit up until our groups merged (beautifully) to work together for whatever reason that was again, cba to remember rn anyway. I can say pretty confidently that they suffer the same repetitive dribble as with majority of bandit crp/pvp groups where people seem to enjoy villainizing them outside of the realms of just rp. Majority of people are more than keen to bring their ooc spite when discussing the group and then use that ooc reputation behind their ign to justify watch-doging players within nations (spoiler alert they're afk running around doing nothing), preventing any of the actual members who do roleplay from pursuing magics (due to their association) the list goes further and my mind rots ever more. Why must people be so cringe. 

 

I am not a ferryman, I am not part of their inner group/circle, I simply vibe with them and have fun as acquaintances to friends often do in this wonderful act called socializing, I urge community members to try starting a conversation when you have grievances with the group or a specific individual within the group itself rather than to sit in a discord chat spewing malice from your mangled fingernails over an instance where your nation/group/persona was bandited/raided/kidnapped god forbid even having to share the same pixel airspace with one of them for even a minute. 

 

I want to remind the slice of life roleplayers that unless you kill yourself or well do something stupid like an aerial escape from a tower with a boat (Love u Borin), these guys? these big scary men (and some based women) can't pk your character, you're protected by the monks but your rp items arent which is a risk YOU alone decide to take everytime you don't have it stashed away in a box or soulbinded. Villainy should and must be unavoidable or this server is nothing more than a glorified stagnate hugbox where there are no consequences to life. Judge them respectfully, report on them when they've done wrong but at no point should being spiteful n shady become part of your daily routine on lotc let alone any mcrp server. These are the tamest group of pvpers I have had the pleasure of being close friends with, I also wanna just remind the old playerbase of how pvpers were a few years ago and reflect from then vs now. Cause as a victim, I can safely say I prefer these guys. Just dm them and sort your beef out, I can help and message them on your behalf if you really want it.

 

The more we villainize groups like this the worse the server gets, it's already embarrassing that we don't have a pk clause for NLs and significant figures, we need these kinds of people who have put up with so much bs that has been allowed to go by on the server when the reverse would be bans n warnings on their records. Without consequences there is no real progress for the server, all comfort does is it just breeds laziness. I have been bandited a bunch, I've been killed a lot n even executed after a raid, you don't see me whining? Come up with a real reason to dislike them and if it's serious enough why not report on it? why not make a case for it, every instance i've seen of people bringing them up it's for villainy, bad faith rp, heists, pvp ect. It's not a reason to hate an entire community let alone the people who associate with them, do better and grow the f up.

 

p.s I will never forgive Mick for what he said and I hope he finds a calcified baby in HIS WOMB.

[Frenchless_fry 269]

16 minutes ago, Geckonawa said:

Why aren't there any ferrywomen?

We exist

[Samson Option 9652]

2 minutes ago, Unwillingly said:

unless bandits are proactive in their RP and go the extra mile of trying to give the player a lasting positive impression, I think the majority of bandit RP is just inherently undesirable to receive, even if the RP isn't necessarily low quality or the players aren't being OOCly belligerent. a lot of people care more about their pixels than their actual character, which is why in many cases people throw a bigger fit about losing their ST item than their character losing an entire arm in CRP and I think it's what makes bandit RP especially tedious. RPly it should be a good thing that all a bandit wants is your valuables, but OOCly people hate that all bandits want are your valuables

and I think it's that mindset that invokes the expectation of bandit RPers needing to be the people to go out of their way to make the encounter enjoyable. I don't really think it's wrong to desire a more enjoyable encounter, because who doesn't? but then it begs the question (considering recent conversation, particularly orlanth's comment on joel's thread) of how much we even should be trying to coddle players, and whether or not catering to this mindset of "you NEED to make the encounter enjoyable for me or you're a toxic player" is healthy for the server
 

 

That is a gold standard question right there.

 

The enjoyment of this server comes from the fictional potential & fictional ideal both in your control (as a player, not you specifically @Unwillingly ) & through the reality that you as a player are engaging in a multiplayer video game and thus there are a lot more chefs in the kitchen so to speak. Related to this topic on the Ferrymen, I remember back in 2.0/3.0 watching a player-group that I developed in 1.0 (the Teutonic Order) get absolutely torn apart by Coastercam's Flays through one of the most riveting wars & history-making periods on the server. Having already the healthy separation required between "the ideal" that I brought to life in-game on the previous map and "the reality" that is that entity being interacted with by many other players; I thought it was one of the coolest things to see - the history nerd in me saw the rise, plateau, & fall of a "kingdom".

 

For this server and its premise to have the maximally enjoyable effect, we all need to buy into the notion that you should make an effort to creatively engage with the server while also recognizing that you are not owed your personal ideal outcome because we are playing a multiplayer game.

[Destructokeith 1142]

Imo its 50/50

I have had good run ins with you all in the past from non bandit talks before the veletz war to needing to leave bandit rp due to irl illness and being let log without a d20

But at the same time i have seen/heard of other members of your group doing nothing more then shit teir banditry, a recent example was a few of your guys rolling up and trying to rob a friend while they were in LC.

I have no hate for a band of mercs who work for the highest bidder but i do have hate for what feels like a band of bandits who rob and kill people just to keep their rp hours high enough to fight in warclaims

Thems my thoughts, sorry its formatted poorly im on my phone at work LOL

Oh small edit here, might want to talk to some of your number about powergaming. Most people can take getting bandited, fewer can take getting bandited because of clear powergaming

[Xarkly 17299]

What Islam said.

 

Generally, Ferrymen provide a sense of looming danger to the server that I doubt would be there otherwise. Like ideally, nations would raid and fight each other with their own actual armies, but I feel like the server climate just doesn't really allow that with the way it's currently set up. The threat of Ferrymen raids etc. is what gives armies the little fuel they have left, and PvP-readiness. 

 

That said, it's been like 4 years now and if we're talking about the state of conflict in general it would be cool to see you guys use your muscle to like actually take the server in a new direction like some of you want to (that might have been the intention with Veletz, not sure) instead of just the usual raiding events, ransoming XYZ lord, etc. Don't get me wrong there's nothing inherently wrong with this - as much as nations will find it annoying (guilty of it myself), ultimately a sense of danger now and again is a good thing - but at some point it does just feel like the same old and dance, and the idea of conflict becomes pretty stale outside of the yearly war. 

 

Conflict is usually a good thing because it leads to new and fresh things. Conflict for conflict sake is good for that sense of danger, but it only goes so far before it becomes stale itself. 

 

Obviously every group/nation is guilty of staleness in their own way, but if you're asking for feedback, that's what I'd say, and we can all agree it'd be nice to see some new shit. 

 

If you do end up warring Haense or Aaun whoever in the future and win, would be much cooler to see something new and different carved out of nation staleness instead of just teabagging, making a video and calling it a day. That's a lot to do with server rules and what you can actually do as well, but you get what I mean.

[wowj 9747]

31 minutes ago, Islamadon said:

Just do something constructive it isn’t hard, you guys could’ve forged your own kingdom and built something unique and set a trend; instead it’s just alt migration to other countries to prop up the junta of the week. It doesn’t matter if the people in the ferries are “chill” if their actions are ultimately detrimental. I will INVEST in $FRRY if they make something for once that isn’t zzz.

Myrine was a pretty good shot at Ferrymen attempting to build their own Kingdom, it had good potential  and was sorta active for a short time but died fairly quick

[Marshi 1184]

I personally don't think the ferrymen are bad, I have never had a bad experience with them and they always have acted in a mature manner with me and in most cases been fair and kinda goofy. Everyone has their own experiences tho ig.

[sam33497 7356]

29 minutes ago, Islamadon said:

Just do something constructive it isn’t hard

we're gonna try again with feedback implemented (last time the entire world warred us)

 

never forget..

 

[annanicole__ 2802]

Personally, I do not think the ferrymen are bad. I've had both good and bad experiences with them. I honestly believe it is simply a matter of who you deal with. Mic smells, though.
 

[Mickaelhz 4300]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

 

24 minutes ago, Jihnyny said:

I seen the hate you all got, and the hate i got too for joining you guys on a couple raids.

Honest question; how do you guys feel when youre shit on constantly?

The most annoying part is that a lot of people dislike us without ever really interacted with anyone here. A lot of people find out about us through word of mouth, dislike us based only off of that and then once they interact with us more they turn around and realize we are not terrorist in real life.

We have an easy time shrugging off insults and baits because we believe we've proven ourselves in our eyes. We're efficient at what we do, while not being perfect in other areas.

You should come on some raids with us again :D!

 

25 minutes ago, Geckonawa said:

Why aren't there any ferrywomen?

They exist, though i must admit it's mostly a sausage party.

 

25 minutes ago, Unwillingly said:

unless bandits are proactive in their RP and go the extra mile of trying to give the player a lasting positive impression, I think the majority of bandit RP is just inherently undesirable to receive, even if the RP isn't necessarily low quality or the players aren't being OOCly belligerent. a lot of people care more about their pixels than their actual character, which is why in many cases people throw a bigger fit about losing their ST item than their character losing an entire arm in CRP and I think it's what makes bandit RP especially tedious. RPly it should be a good thing that all a bandit wants is your valuables, but OOCly people hate that all bandits want are your valuables

and I think it's that mindset that invokes the expectation of bandit RPers needing to be the people to go out of their way to make the encounter enjoyable. I don't really think it's wrong to desire a more enjoyable encounter, because who doesn't? but then it begs the question (considering recent conversation, particularly orlanth's comment on joel's thread) of how much we even should be trying to coddle players, and whether or not catering to this mindset of "you NEED to make the encounter enjoyable for me or you're a toxic player" is healthy for the server

also piggybacking off Islamadon't comment below is something I wholeheartedly agree with. historically pvpers don't really care about RP the way they care about pvp, and while I certainly think the ferrymen have their shortcomings, you guys do have people who care about both. from what I can remember, that's something we never saw from pvp groups from 2018-2019. those guys exclusively logged on for pvp and only pvp, they were there to d40 any RPers they saw and wouldn't leave until their enemy's city was a ghost town

you guys deviate from the standard a little bit through forum writing and harmless banter, which is cool, like I can't complain about that, just that you don't apply your collective identity to RP as much as you do OOCly. you guys are reactive and not proactive. take advantage of the fact that you guys actually have people who enjoy writing and RP, and make yourselves as much of an RP force as an OOC one

It's very difficult to be proactive as a mainly conflict focused group, because being proactive in conflict is instantly perceived as harassment/toxicity/targetting/bullying. I wouldn't say that we are fully reactive, since we are often the aggressors by nature. I speak with a honest heart that most of us try really hard to be nice to the people we interact with, but it takes a lot of determination and persistance when every time we do anything we're instantly met with remarks/insults and people blatantly trying to make the encounter as unfun as possible from the getgo. If you don't think i properly answered here, feel free to dm me. I went through ferrymen discord archive earlier and i saw your name in 2020, you're an OG you just dont know it yet.

 

28 minutes ago, Islamadon said:

Ferries as I see them can mostly be boiled down to boring bandana side-switchers in wars because they have nothing better to do, or because frail and faux machismo ego was challenged. If ferries spent as much time trying to build something productive and deep for the server as they do trying to destroy things or prop up terrible ooc back-door dealers, the server wouldn’t be in current state. 
 

Just do something constructive it isn’t hard, you guys could’ve forged your own kingdom and built something unique and set a trend; instead it’s just alt migration to other countries to prop up the junta of the week. It doesn’t matter if the people in the ferries are “chill” if their actions are ultimately detrimental. I will INVEST in $FRRY if they make something for once that isn’t zzz.

The side swapping thing is not a ferrymen problem any longer. This was an issue while Masouri was leading the group while i was on a 1-year break. I agree that it was a shady part of our history and just like any other group, we care about being seen as reliable. In regards to us not building anything; we had a really good shot at it with a settlement called Myrine that was extremely active for a couple months, yet i couldn't find anyone to carry on my work so it ultimately died off. If you have any ideas as to what you would do with the resources we have, dm me. I'm here to build. If you want me to elaborate further, work with me, set up some cool conflict stuff. Hit me up!

 

 

[AlternisJ 381]

Ferrymen were one the first groups on the server I interacted with on a rp and pvp basic, joined to fight the war in Veletz. After the Veletz war, ended up joining them for a couple of more raids before moving to Lurin. After I joined them on said raids, got banned from more LOTC discords then I can count. These guys are awesome and cool oocly, always willing to help me back when I first joined.

[wolfdwg 2677]

As the father of Mickaelhz, I’m proud of his little band of merry ferrybois.

[Mickaelhz 4300]

27 minutes ago, Ibn Khaldun said:

 

That is a gold standard question right there.

 

The enjoyment of this server comes from the fictional potential & fictional ideal both in your control (as a player, not you specifically @Unwillingly ) & through the reality that you as a player are engaging in a multiplayer video game and thus there are a lot more chefs in the kitchen so to speak. Related to this topic on the Ferrymen, I remember back in 2.0/3.0 watching a player-group that I developed in 1.0 (the Teutonic Order) get absolutely torn apart by Coastercam's Flays through one of the most riveting wars & history-making periods on the server. Having already the healthy separation required between "the ideal" that I brought to life in-game on the previous map and "the reality" that is that entity being interacted with by many other players; I thought it was one of the coolest things to see - the history nerd in me saw the rise, plateau, & fall of a "kingdom".

 

For this server and its premise to have the maximally enjoyable effect, we all need to buy into the notion that you should make an effort to creatively engage with the server while also recognizing that you are not owed your personal ideal outcome because we are playing a multiplayer game.

People often dont consider for a second if the encounter is enjoyable for the villains of the server. It's hard for us to make an interaction fun and interesting when the other side does everything in their power to obstruct us/be as annoying as possible to us. This includes literally breaking rules/cheating/blatant staff bias. 

 

On a side note, I have a lot of respect for people like you specifically, you've added more to the server than 99% of people. You're an inspiration to many. Thank you for your comment.

 

18 minutes ago, Destructokeith said:

Imo its 50/50

I have had good run ins with you all in the past from non bandit talks before the veletz war to needing to leave bandit rp due to irl illness and being let log without a d20

But at the same time i have seen/heard of other members of your group doing nothing more then shit teir banditry, a recent example was a few of your guys rolling up and trying to rob a friend while they were in LC.

I have no hate for a band of mercs who work for the highest bidder but i do have hate for what feels like a band of bandits who rob and kill people just to keep their rp hours high enough to fight in warclaims

Thems my thoughts, sorry its formatted poorly im on my phone at work LOL

Oh small edit here, might want to talk to some of your number about powergaming. Most people can take getting bandited, fewer can take getting bandited because of clear powergaming

I was specifically involved with the LC bandit you're talking about. Under 60th's administration, people in LC were allowed to be banditted. We were not made aware of this rule change. I apologized to Olox privately to make sure he understands we don't mean any harm. We're not perfect, but people must understand that when we do something that's wrong, it's never to cause any real harm and damage. This was my conversation with olox right after the LC bandit.

 

 

also, in regards to the powergaming. If you have any examples of powergamers/poor conduct of our guys. DM me. I try to keep my guys unbanned as much as i can, and making sure they're fair in their rp is a big part of this.

 

23 minutes ago, Xarkly said:

What Islam said.

 

Generally, Ferrymen provide a sense of looming danger to the server that I doubt would be there otherwise. Like ideally, nations would raid and fight each other with their own actual armies, but I feel like the server climate just doesn't really allow that with the way it's currently set up. The threat of Ferrymen raids etc. is what gives armies the little fuel they have left, and PvP-readiness. 

 

That said, it's been like 4 years now and if we're talking about the state of conflict in general it would be cool to see you guys use your muscle to like actually take the server in a new direction like some of you want to (that might have been the intention with Veletz, not sure) instead of just the usual raiding events, ransoming XYZ lord, etc. Don't get me wrong there's nothing inherently wrong with this - as much as nations will find it annoying (guilty of it myself), ultimately a sense of danger now and again is a good thing - but at some point it does just feel like the same old and dance, and the idea of conflict becomes pretty stale outside of the yearly war. 

 

Conflict is usually a good thing because it leads to new and fresh things. Conflict for conflict sake is good for that sense of danger, but it only goes so far before it becomes stale itself. 

 

Obviously every group/nation is guilty of staleness in their own way, but if you're asking for feedback, that's what I'd say, and we can all agree it'd be nice to see some new shit. 

 

If you do end up warring Haense or Aaun whoever in the future and win, would be much cooler to see something new and different carved out of nation staleness instead of just teabagging, making a video and calling it a day. That's a lot to do with server rules and what you can actually do as well, but you get what I mean.

First of all you're a horrible person for trying to cheese me with minimize starmie. second of all thank you for your comment.

 

We've worked together before (especially in myrine), if you want to theorize about any cool things you think our group could do, my dms are always open to old friends.

 

23 minutes ago, wowj said:

Myrine was a pretty good shot at Ferrymen attempting to build their own Kingdom, it had good potential  and was sorta active for a short time but died fairly quick

I tried, but nobody shared the same ambition as me. Do you sometimes still long for your hole under our bridge?

 

15 minutes ago, annanicole__ said:

Personally, I do not think the ferrymen are bad. I've had both good and bad experiences with them. I honestly believe it is simply a matter of who you deal with. Mic smells, though.
 

I would specifically describe my scent as 12 cps ferrymob-boss megademon minecraft stevekiller 300