Thales: Racial Bonuses

[Dyrr 137]

Human's shouldn't get a PvP bonus in my opinion. Like I've said in all my other posts on this thread, they have more people than any other race, and easily more than the opposing side during a large battle. Pretty silly to put that in, if you ask me.

 

(And no, I'm not a biased non-human. I play a human on my main.) 

[Shar'ku/jenspelao 410]

Before I left for 6 months I was always against it because people would obviously flame at eachother. I always told gm's to kinda use the plugin vaq made in aegis (Don't confuse with the one in asulon with Unarmed and stealth being op and the dumb crafting restrictions) it was kinda simple and really good, I said to use a rip off. Old vaq's plugin made gold swords really strong, but since they would break so quickly it made gold useful, not like now you just throw the gold into the barbage, and farming was really nice, remember using iron blocks as anvils and leveling up blacksmithing by melting ores, oh and I miss the old crafting screen were you could do **** really quick, you could still rp smithing the swords and the armor if you had someone near like vonaulus back in aegis, but now you cant because the armor takes hours to craft.

 

Other kinda cool thing vaq did was the slowness on the armor, they made it really balanced with the armor slowness, not like now you are honestly like a paralized retard or like a turtle while wearing iron armor. I would recommend making those 3 weapong type skills: Axemastery, Swordsmanship and Archery, like it or not this being an RP server when you were bored and had nothing to do back then in aegis you would go to the unpermed land and slay mobs to increase your level or get a decent amount of money and it was fun.

 

And to be honest, it's way easier for new players to use the old crafting system, because new players the first thing they do is make a house, and then move to the cities and meet people, but they cant because you cant even make a pickaxe to get cobblestone normally.

 

I shall never change my opinion.

[hellfiazz 879]

All the things in Jistuma's post are how things are in lore and roleplay, and therefore they should be the things in the plugin. It's not about making sure one race is better than another, or can stand up to another, it's about actually representing the lore and physiology of the different races in a mechanical way.

 

Looks like I have to repeat myself again folks. Learn to read people. Learn to read.

[Hydra 515]

Humans should not get pvp buff there are the base line of all other races

Elves run faster than human

Orcs compared to humans are stronger

Not to mention how many people play humans

[Trips 344]

I like how Kha have no drawbacks at all..

[Samson Option 9652]

 

Nah, not really.  Let's not make use of the appeal to nature argument quite yet. The extent of warfare on the fringe has been 4 nations combined against Oren - the Dwarves, the Sariants, Alras, and you, so this hypothesis that "Oren is the big bad meanie with all the extra numbers" is beyond skewed.  As the war's leader in effect, I am speaking from a personal account of all the action I've seen.  In order to mitigate "Oren's numbers", the Bloc would frequently attack when none of us were online, i.e at around 10 AM to 1 PM PST, where the majority of Orenians are working, have school, or are simply busy with our lives.  That's not really an advantage.

 

At that point, Big Bad Evil Oren's numbers are no longer an issue because all 4 nations inevitably outnumber us.  Explain to me how "humans having a numerical advantage" matters if you attack when very few of us are online.  Now, I hate to argue over mechanics about such things, but since this is concerning "combat handicaps", more or less, I've got no choice but to delve myself in.  Further, what do you think makes it fair for those smaller warbands with, say, 10 dwarves to attack 10 humans of equal stock in equipment and militancy skill, and the dwarves win because of the fact that they have a mechanical handicap that makes them more effective in PVP, while their characters may not actually be as skilled as those humans?  When you realize you're defending every other race having cute perks and humanity having the only combat disadvantage, your points start to make less and less sense.  To me, this sounds like a way to isolate humanity on LOTC as much as possible.

 

 

 

If one average Orc can best one average human, surely said Orc player should have the genuine skill to do so, rather than have to rely on mechanical handicaps.  You're basically implying that Orcs are incapable of beating humans without mechanical assistance, and here I am trying really hard to believe otherwise.

 

 

 

Hence why the buff applying in general against other players as opposed to "only against mobs!" makes perfect sense.  Oren does not always have numerical superiority, and as stated, it has been not 1 or 2, but 4 nations attacking us constantly - this buff would fit us perfectly, and I assume that's why many are rushing to defend against the mishap of us not having it.

 

 

"Middle ground race" is a pretty incredibly vast generalization.  The purpose of humanity is for each own human to decide for him or herself, and that most often involves sky-reaching ambitions in war, empires and civics.  No human is the same as every other, which is what makes humanity the most unique yet most competitive race, and competition breeds strength.  The purpose of humanity on a minecraft online roleplay fantasy server is not for you, a non-human player, to decide.  Sorry bud.

 

 

 

Why is it a problem if humans get a pvp bonus whilst every other races does, ser?  Further, why are we capping humanity's buffs and not capping that of every other race?  Would you not say this is a double standard?

 

Here's a better solution for you all - remove combat buffs, they're absolutely stupid to begin with and make a character's military skills become mechanical rather than true to their character.  Take a game like Warband which has realistic melee combat physics and you see that it takes a hefty amount of skill to be good, hell, you have to keep playing to stay good.  There aren't really any "critical hits" or "passive racial damage bonuses", you need to know how to swing or block in order to win.

 

For those of you shilling hard to capitalize in the name of humans getting a PVP disadvantage, and for those on the side, I'd like to state that if such a disadvantage were put upon the races that you play on, you would have a completely different outlook.  Come now - I'm asking you all to be realistic.  Not here whining, just trying to set things fair for all parties.

 

 

Reminds me of most arguments, people can't even collect their intellect enough to actually try to respond. They just turn cheek and spew opinions. Anyone mind actually responding to vulcus?

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

 

 

To Hellfiazz: Everyone needs to actually confirm one thing or the other. Will we be molded from pre-determined, biased, and convoluted variables or are we basing this plugin from the history and progress of the races? Funnily enough, most people hark the herald about "roleplay! roleplay! roleplay! character development o' my!". If that is the case, Humans definitely deserve to be rewarded for their mastery of character development to the point of forming great nations and military organizations. You may complain that "o you have the Flays!!!" albeit the fact remains that as a whole organizational unit, the Humans have kept the most solid, functional system alive for longest and have proven a great structure.

[✿Honeybear✿ 84]

 

 

Isn't there a way to have a custom race such as Golem mask over another race for it's perks?

Was this ever answered? Like, for those playing magical constructs, creatures, nonconformist races, etc., will GMs be able to set a custom name to mask over a race’s buffs/debuffs? So, for example, a Shade can still list themselves as such in their bio whilst also having access to their elven racial perks.

[Neri 3590]

Nah, not really.  Let's not make use of the appeal to nature argument quite yet. The extent of warfare on the fringe has been 4 nations combined against Oren - the Dwarves, the Sariants, Alras, and you, so this hypothesis that "Oren is the big bad meanie with all the extra numbers" is beyond skewed.  As the war's leader in effect, I am speaking from a personal account of all the action I've seen.  In order to mitigate "Oren's numbers", the Bloc would frequently attack when none of us were online, i.e at around 10 AM to 1 PM PST, where the majority of Orenians are working, have school, or are simply busy with our lives.  That's not really an advantage.

At that point, Big Bad Evil Oren's numbers are no longer an issue because all 4 nations inevitably outnumber us. Explain to me how "humans having a numerical advantage" matters if you attack when very few of us are online. Now, I hate to argue over mechanics about such things, but since this is concerning "combat handicaps", more or less, I've got no choice but to delve myself in. Further, what do you think makes it fair for those smaller warbands with, say, 10 dwarves to attack 10 humans of equal stock in equipment and militancy skill, and the dwarves win because of the fact that they have a mechanical handicap that makes them more effective in PVP, while their characters may not actually be as skilled as those humans? When you realize you're defending every other race having cute perks and humanity having the only combat disadvantage, your points start to make less and less sense. To me, this sounds like a way to isolate humanity on LOTC as much as possible.

 

You're correct in that Oren /can/ be outnumbered, but as it stands, Humans are the most numerous playerbase and always will be due to around 3/4 new players becoming one. We can't base buffs/debuffs off of one scenario when in future it won't be like that. Also, the raiding at off-hours is a problem with the war system (or rather, the lack of it) that endorses and allows scumbag tactics like that, not really to do with the topic at hand.

 

To the second part... LOTC is not your competitive PVP ELO-based skill-reliant game or what have you, it's a RP server with PVP aspects that have been blown way out of proportion by over-competitive individuals. If you're saying that we should cater only to a player's personal PVP skill (an OOC factor) rather than any lore or common sense (an IC factor), then you're just as bad as the people you're criticizing who propose the opposite. You propose to throw out all lore and simply make LOTC's combat 'team deathmatch with different coloured skins and ears'. I don't put stock in that idea.

 

I'd prefer to have an equal mix of cohesive lore-based mechanics, with a player's skill at utilizing their racial mechanics being a contributing factor to success, rather than just pure PVP skill. 

 

 

If one average Orc can best one average human, surely said Orc player should have the genuine skill to do so, rather than have to rely on mechanical handicaps.  You're basically implying that Orcs are incapable of beating humans without mechanical assistance, and here I am trying really hard to believe otherwise.

 

So, let me get this straight, you say that someone's ability in battle should be entirely determined by their PVP skill?

 

Forgive the possible strawman, but would that still apply, say, if someone was roleplaying Iblees, then their power should rely entirely on how well they can PVP?

 

Don't mob me with pitchforks and torches, but yes, I believe LOTC should not be a level playing field. A single average Orc should be stronger than a single average human, since that's what lore dictates. Of course, other factors do need to come into play, such as each combatant's skills in weapons, fighting, etc. I'm not saying that every Orc should kill every Human in 1v1 combat, but the battle will always be slightly weighted in the Orc's favour.

 

"Middle ground race" is a pretty incredibly vast generalization.  The purpose of humanity is for each own human to decide for him or herself, and that most often involves sky-reaching ambitions in war, empires and civics.  No human is the same as every other, which is what makes humanity the most unique yet most competitive race, and competition breeds strength.  The purpose of humanity on a minecraft online roleplay fantasy server is not for you, a non-human player, to decide.  Sorry bud.

 

Neither is it up to you, bud. It's up to the staff teams to decide. We gathered opinions from people on what they think their race's abilities and racial bonuses etc. should be, but we're not going to let any players decide simply because everyone is inherently biased to their own factions. Humans in lore are the middle ground race. They have the ability to become good at many trades and skills with ease, only limited by their lifespans. They have a drive to succeed that the other, longer-living races lack, and that manifests in their racial ability - being able to become masters in three trades, a massive benefit compared to the other race's two, as well as having no penalties in any trade. I wish dark elves had that, the race I play.

 

Here's a better solution for you all - remove combat buffs, they're absolutely stupid to begin with and make a character's military skills become mechanical rather than true to their character.  Take a game like Warband which has realistic melee combat physics and you see that it takes a hefty amount of skill to be good, hell, you have to keep playing to stay good.  There aren't really any "critical hits" or "passive racial damage bonuses", you need to know how to swing or block in order to win.

 

That's not a valid example, because warband is a realistic medieval game, LOTC is not. I must admit though, the combat system is good. LOTC shouldn't be a competitive PVP game though, that's what'll be the death of it. It breeds OOC competition as well as IC. Look at most PVP competitive game's communities for proof. They're all toxic cesspools. 

 

Anyways, if Warband had Orcs, they'd probably hit harder than a human, because that'd be realistic inside the universe of the game.

 

For those of you shilling hard to capitalize in the name of humans getting a PVP disadvantage, and for those on the side, I'd like to state that if such a disadvantage were put upon the races that you play on, you would have a completely different outlook.  Come now - I'm asking you all to be realistic.  Not here whining, just trying to set things fair for all parties.

 

I wish my character's race had 100+ constant players, but no, we don't. That's a pretty massive disadvantage in my eyes. We have like 5 players maximum at any time. We'll never have a proper nation. I don't blame people though, as not everyone wants to play a Darkie.

 

Anyways that my rambling reply since Gaius incited me into replying.

[Picklerage 7]

For those of you shilling hard to capitalize in the name of humans getting a PVP disadvantage, and for those on the side, I'd like to state that if such a disadvantage were put upon the races that you play on, you would have a completely different outlook.  Come now - I'm asking you all to be realistic.  Not here whining, just trying to set things fair for all parties.

 

Hmm, let's see. You think humans are at a disadvantage in PvP? Let's look at halflings for a moment. No PvP bonus, no power in numbers (one of the smallest races on the server), and guess what, a PvP debuff. So yeah, I think we're being "realistic", not to mention humans don't actually get a PvP disadvantage, just no advantage. Try not to have a victim complex. Also what Freya said is incredibly true and important.

[blindmind 350]

Freya pretty much has it right. I'd +1 but I ran out of ammo.

[Nefarious Aus Shitpost 891]

Okay, for the love of God... no permament speed debuff for dwarves; I don't want to spend a year crossing the map... that is literally the plague.

[Mucky 443]

Human's with all their % ****, are currently better smiths than Dwarves...

And their combat boost for every 4 humans, means they can 1 shot people, if there is enough of them.

[Destroyer_Bravo 1054]

please make human buff cap out at like +2 halfhearts damage or something

 

humans should not be better smiths than dwarves by default

 

otherwise humans can mob too op.

 

also

 

dwarves are orgainized

 

orcs are orgainized

 

recently elves became orgainized

 

humans arent the only orgainized army vulcus, and that makes your argument start cracking

[Dmajikes 46]

It has come to my attention that some humans think that they can 1v1 orcs. Us Uruks are not like the Uruk’Hai in the Lord of the Rings as depicted here

Us orcs are, on average, up to eight feet tall, a foot taller than Shaquille O’Neal and at least one hundred pounds heavier than a sumo wrestler. Many orcs, if they try hard enough, can rip an elf in half with their bare hands. When anyone confronts an orc in battle it should be with fear at the fact that a beast one and a half times your size and three times your weight is confronting you. I understand that not any people can install the More Player Models Mod to see the size, but when an orc punches a human in the gut or hits their head then the human will hurt like the dickens and be sore for the next year. Some humans even Role play pushing orcs over such as *attempts to push the Uruk over, or *tries to tackles the orc. THESE SHOULD NEVER HAPPEN. When you can push over and tackle Shaq then attempt to tackle me, who is much bigger. So next time a human takes on an orc in a 1v1 then remember that a more even match would be  two armed humans against an orc with a club

[Agith 224]

Weesa biiiiiiiiig