[Shelved]The Clerics Of Tahariae

[excited 10833]

I forgot to mention this, Hesh. Make it clear Clerics cannot fix people who're drowning, despite it being blatantly obvious I feel it needs to be made into a red line so that it's clearly outlined as impossible. Mostly due to the fact light cannot remove water from somebody's lungs, rofl. 

[Ventusyr 232]

After some investigation, I'm writing in the Three Mechanisms of Healing, an apparently established aspect of cleric magic that wasn't well known at all. The mechanisms are speed, pain, and scarring. A cleric can take the healing slow and carefully, causing minimal to no pain and reducing scarring at the cost of the spell being quite exhausting. It is exhausting because of the Aengulic energy you have summoned; it is bottled up inside of you and released slowly, which is difficult for the cleric to hold. The cleric can also release the energy all at once while performing the spell as well, making the healing far easier. However, although making the healing fast, it causes scarring and pain appropriate to the level of injury.

 

Clerics can focus on one or two of the mechanisms as well, reducing pain but maintaining the speed and scarring of the healing, for example. This allows for diversity in how clerics go about healing, and shall bring in more types of healing to cleric RP.

 

Gonna need a bit of time to add this into the OP and edit the emotes to reflect this.

 

I forgot to mention this, Hesh. Make it clear Clerics cannot fix people who're drowning, despite it being blatantly obvious I feel it needs to be made into a red line so that it's clearly outlined as impossible. Mostly due to the fact light cannot remove water from somebody's lungs, rofl. 

 

What the hecky. Yeah, I'll put that in the red lines. Thanks!

[excited 10833]

Make it clear that "self healing" is not allowed during combat, and that it is very impractical. Also the 'removing of one's blemishes.' The magic is intended for healing others, not yourself unless you're in the most dire of a situation after a combat scenario.

In general, self healing should be nigh on impossible, especially to fix one's looks. Hence why many Clerics in the past hold scars, missing eyes, and other remnants of fatal wounds in Tahariae's service.

make it a red line to misuse the magic out of personal greed for both War Cleric and Priest Healing. 

PS: Elaborate more on 'Clerical Depression' as well. 

AKA: DO NOT SQUANDER THE POWER OF TAHARIAE, A PHYSICAL IMPERFECTION IS NOT IMPURITY. USE THE AENGUDAEMON'S MAGIC FOR PRACTICAL AND SELFLESS DEEDS.

[Ventusyr 232]

Make it clear that "self healing" is not allowed during combat, and that it is very impractical. Also the 'removing of one's blemishes.' The magic is intended for healing others, not yourself unless you're in the most dire of a situation after a combat scenario.

In general, self healing should be nigh on impossible, especially to fix one's looks. Hence why many Clerics in the past hold scars, missing eyes, and other remnants of fatal wounds in Tahariae's service.

make it a red line to misuse the magic out of personal greed for both War Cleric and Priest Healing. 

PS: Elaborate more on 'Clerical Depression' as well. 

 

What the hecky?! Yeah, people can't heal during combat; takes too much focus. Self-healing is also always far more difficult, since pain is very distracting. I'll clarify that, thank you for bringing that up!

 

With the blemishes thing, healing yourself of scars should be impractical, but healing others' scars should be all right within, say, an Elven week of the injury received? Would that be fair?

 

Could you clarify what you mean about personal greed for the cleric magics? Do you mean using war cleric magic to achieve your own mortal goals, and only using priest healing on people you know and nobody else? Things like that?

 

Could you elaborate on what you mean by Clerical Depression? Do you mean the depression that occurs after disconnection?

[ℤ∃ʁ∅ 823]

If we are talking as passive healing as self healing that should be a NO.

But clerics healing themselves should stay.

To understand healing it's better to try on yourself. That's been a good way to help new clerics as well. But the toll is you use more energy. That's how I've been taught and seen many others.

I find it logically correct to be able to heal yourself. And as war clerics Hopser taught me, that you can heal small things to continue fighting. Not something like using healing then switch to war clericism to attack. That would be hard for someone to even try to pull.

If someone was to back off for a while while others fight as the war cleric heals himself then get back into the fight. That would make sense because the time frame. Nothing instant.

[excited 10833]

What the hecky?! Yeah, people can't heal during combat; takes too much focus. Self-healing is also always far more difficult, since pain is very distracting. I'll clarify that, thank you for bringing that up!

 

With the blemishes thing, healing yourself of scars should be impractical, but healing others' scars should be all right within, say, an Elven week of the injury received? Would that be fair?

 

Could you clarify what you mean about personal greed for the cleric magics? Do you mean using war cleric magic to achieve your own mortal goals, and only using priest healing on people you know and nobody else? Things like that?

 

Could you elaborate on what you mean by Clerical Depression? Do you mean the depression that occurs after disconnection?

 

The disconnection, yes. The 'depression' that follows. I think Tahariae would see healing scars as an impractical waste of his mana/energies and would be like "lolno" to those who wished to try.

If we are talking as passive healing as self healing that should be a NO.

But clerics healing themselves should stay.

To understand healing it's better to try on yourself. That's been a good way to help new clerics as well. But the toll is you use more energy. That's how I've been taught and seen many others.

I find it logically correct to be able to heal yourself. And as war clerics Hopser taught me, that you can heal small things to continue fighting. Not something like using healing then switch to war clericism to attack. That would be hard for someone to even try to pull.

If someone was to back off for a while while others fight as the war cleric heals himself then get back into the fight. That would make sense because the time frame. Nothing instant.

Don't get me wrong, I was a priest healer of Tahariae for a good while. In general you shouldn't be able to heal yourself, it's a vain waste. Especially considering how many Clerics there are and how easily they are replaced. If you're in pain, you're unable to cast. That's it for a void mage, that's it for a Cleric, that's it for anybody who utilizes magic. It requires a lot of focus, and that little bit of pain can eradicate any chance of focusing.

War Clerics already hold the ability to insta kill most dark creatures, they don't need a healing buff or ability. Even the small scrapes should stay, all the dark creatures get wiped out because of how many abilities you guys have. It's as if the darkness is meant to lose, both sides are player characters and should be treated the same. 

 

 

 

Could you clarify what you mean about personal greed for the cleric magics? Do you mean using war cleric magic to achieve your own mortal goals, and only using priest healing on people you know and nobody else? Things like that?

Most Clerics I've seen only heal their buddies, or the people in their rp hub. The greed is that these people want to save the people they love, and only them. A Cleric as I was told, is meant to uphold their oaths of purity and endure the torment issued by those who'd see Tahariae's influence on the mortal world destroyed. Right now Clerics have a lot of lee-way to abuse their magic as long as they murder dark creatures as well, but people should obey different sets of tenants and prayers. 

An example, Itharel should be chaste. They don't feel emotion, after all. Yet I see the Itharel running about procreating and a bunch of other hokey pokey, it's pretty f-cked up. Many players use Clericism as their path to Old Style Malinorian Greed, by this I mean the "im special and deserve to be looked at" syndrome that many individuals within the Caliphate and Aeroch-nor possess. 

Clerics come in two kinds, and neither of them fit within that model.

- Paladins: The arrogant one man bastion against the darkness, a War Cleric seeking to purge Tahariae's enemies. Examples include Daniel and Braxis.

- The Benevolent: A well done upholder of the Faith and healer of men's wounds, they wander the land purging the blight and mending the wounds of the many aloof Descendants across the world. Examples include Hosper, Aegor, and many others.

As for the inter-Clerical marriages, I don't know too much on how the Patrons look at each other, but isn't it possible that Xan and Tahariae are rivals? As for Aeriel, she seems to get along with both. I think that upholding chasity should be somewhat vital for an aspiring Cleric, as well as abiding by monogamous relationships. 

Tl;dr

Many people utilize Clericism in a way to express how special they are rather than for their character's actual alignment. Hence the many issues that arise with Clerics shifting allegiances at rapid times and switching between different AenguDaemons to regain their "special snowflake" status. 

 

[Ventusyr 232]

Snipitty snip

 

 

To be honest, I feel like the effects of disconnection shouldn't be healable through clerical therapy. If someone is going to give up their patronage, even to submit to another deity, they should still feel the effects. Therapy helps problems with the mind; disconnection rips your soul. I will elaborate more on it in the OP. This won't apply to those who have already been disconnected and got the therapy for it, but disconnection should be a horrific, literally-soul scarring experience that there is no recovering from. I find jumps between deities very silly and ridiculous as well, so just keep the effects of disconnection.

 

Your point about scars is very good. I'll put in the OP that clerics can't heal scars.

 

Self-healing shouldn't be possible beyond a T2 heal. You cannot focus through the pain. If healing anything more than a small cut was done on the battlefield, the cleric would likely be too exhausted from the healing to return to the battle. The adrenaline and general thrill of the fight would make concentrating too difficult to summon healing light and heal something after just backing out of a fight. Heal it after the battle is over, and through mundane methods or via an another cleric would be best.

 

Itharel being married has always really confused me. It's... Kind of embarrassing and doesn't help the cleric rep of holy men who want to bone everything. Itharel should not have a sex drive or be involved in romance in any way. If they did, I don't think it would be unreasonable to have their Itharelhood removed, because their dedication to purity is held back by their affections (which, if they are incapable of love, are literally using the mortals for purely sexual pleasure, which is even worse for clerical rep).

 

Inter-Aengulic relations are interesting. Xan and Tahariae are considered brothers; the last vision from Tahariae was Him telling clerics to ally with Paladins in another Sacred Light type thing. I recently wrote a sort of bible for clerics, and one of the doctrines is that clerics should not marry, unless their spouse is a fellow Aengudaemon worshipper who is devoted to purity as well. If they focus more on their romance than wandering about healing, or making themselves available for patients, then they would be disconnected.

[Gone 868]

-snip-

 

-snip-

 

Healing yourself in the middle of combat is indeed something I'd think impossible, as you're currently focusing on fighting. So unless you stepped out of the fight to heal yourself, you couldn't focus on it.

However, if you're not in a fight I see no reason not to heal yourself if you're hurt. Not only is this often how some are taught to heal at first, by cutting themselves and then healing that cut, it also wouldn't make sense not to heal it. That right there is good practice for the beginners and for those more advanced, wouldn't Tahariae want his children to be in good condition? Instead you're saying he'd just replace them? Wtf? I'm sorry but no. All of my no.

 

I've not seen anyone get healed to 'fix' their looks... So not sure where that's coming from. 

Missing an eye messes with depth perception and of course leaves you with a literal blind spot on that side. So I wouldn't call that fixing your looks. And scars, depending on where they are and how bad they are, can actually mess with your movements since the flesh there is tight and messed up. 

I have an irl back issue that could easily be fixed with surgery however I was told that the scar tissue from said surgery would then have to be removed every so often otherwise it would leave me partially paralyzed. So yeah, scars can **** you up depending on certain factors. Thus I'd say healing some scars should be okay, if it is badly affecting the person.

 

As for the 'greed' bit... So you want people to be punished for only healing those they're around? I'm sorry what? How is it bad that they heal people in the town they're in? Maybe they're only supposed to keep an eye on that area? Maybe an elven cleric doesn't wanna travel to Oren and risk getting killed? Since when is healing people in the rp hub that you match a bad thing? 

 

Okay moving on down the second post, Itharel procreating? I looked up the literal definition of procreating for this one and: 

Uh... Itharel are sterile... So none of them are going around makin tiny Itharels. Did you mean intercourse? I'm assuming you meant intercourse. 

I was gonna go further on that but then I saw you literally mentioning playerbases that you don't like and I just... Nope not touching just gonna move on now.

 

And now you're trying to say all clerics must fit into one of two stereotypes... Do I honestly have to explain why that's wrong? I'm gonna just to make sure. Guess what, sometimes people don't fit stereotypes! To be honest, so long as they're getting the job done, I don't think Tahariae gives a ****. 

 

Xan and Tahariae are more like brothers. Hence the two orders working together a lot. And you're mentioning chastity again but not why... Tahariae has never come down and told his people not to get laid. Hey it helps reduce stress and they're people too. Let 'em have their fun I say.

 

"Clerics shifting allegiances at rapid times and switching between different AenguDaemons to regain their "special snowflake" status."

What. Who?

 

-snip-

 

Who had disconnection healed with therapy? I've had Cheza messed up in the head ever since she was disconnected... Never heard of any special light therapy.

 

No, no no, please bring back scars but specify only if the scar is one badly affecting the person such as hindering movement. As I stated above, sometimes scars can badly **** with you and thus you'd need help. A warrior who got a scar on his back for example would have a harder time moving in battle thus he'd either risk injury, have to retire, or get it healed. Please bring back scars just keep track of why said scar is being healed.

[ski_king3 0]

Expect feedback from the Lore Team shortly!

[Ventusyr 232]

Snip

 

Your argument for scar healing is pretty good. If we can heal some scar tissue, I don't suppose there's any problem with healing all, though. It would just be kind of a waste of cleric magic to heal a scar that doesn't affect the patient negatively, but we can leave that to the cleric's discretion.

 

Clerics being romantics has kind of ruined our IC and OOC reputation. If a cleric is spending their time flirting and trying to get it on with the local fertile elvish women, or devoting their time to a family rather than their mission to establish purity in the realm, I'm definitely sure Tahariae would have issues with it. It can easily be interpreted as breaking the Second Tenet, and not properly accomplishing the Third. This should especially apply to Itharel.

 

As for disconnection healing with therapy, and the shifting of deities, we have Skale, who got disconnected from the clerics to join Xan. Got the therapy from the Itharel Rosencratz. There is also Kyral, who betrayed Tah to become something and is now a Druid. Her symptoms were banished by Herun (citation needed, can't remember her explanation fully, but it was one of the Xan Itharel thingies). Straight-up banished. Beros used runesmithing or something to disconnect himself and become a runesmither, and from what I've seen has suffered no side effects. Had numerous clerics let me know they are pursuing becoming an Ascended... It's pretty common to jump ship on Tahariae for a new one.

[Ventusyr 232]

Expect feedback from the Lore Team shortly!

 

Thank you! I look forward to it!

[ski_king3 0]

Hail my Clerical friends. To premise this, we're glad to see an attempt being made to clarify that which is unclear and/or inconsistent, and properly document the lore for Clerics. That being said, in attempt to clarify ambiguities, there were some places in which the Lore Team feels you've contradicted existing lore. This makes sense, given that there have been some ambiguities regarding the magic for quite some time after the MAT disbanded, but it’s important that they are clarified and discussed prior to a verdict being posted on the lore.

 

As such, here are some of these issues:

• Clerical light has always matched a character’s aura color, barring those which signify evil, and are capable of changing. As such, Clerics shouldn’t be barred to four colors for their holy light. There have been Clerics in the past with red and green light as well.

• Likewise, given some inaccuracies in the history (particularly that revolving around the timing and source of “Creator Cleric” decline, this history can’t be considered totally canon. That being said, it’s written as an IC view on the history of Clerics, so I imagine that was the assumption anyways.

• The lore doesn’t accurately describe the process of starting and stopping one’s holy light. Healing is very similar to evocation; the Cleric connects to their patron, draws light, makes it do its healing, and lets it dissipate. However, if they are distracted, the light merely dissipates and the healing stops. It is a conscious act generally, but not a difficult one, and the default if one loses focus.

• There should not be aspects of Clerical magic bound exclusively within the Order. If there are characters who draw their magic from Tahariae, their abilities should not be limited as such (this is in reference to a specific skill that was listed as being for Order Clerics only)

• Priest healing is no effective weapon, but it causes significant pain to tainted beings, not mere mild discomfort. Taint and holy light basically go to war on contact, to put it crudely. There isn’t any mildness about that.

• Timelines for tiers should not be canon, they’re up to whatever the teacher and student agree upon. We don’t have that for other magics, so this is not going to be an official timeline, but rather an example one.

• Purging taint should not remain a Tier 5 only spell, because all holy light tries to purge taint when they come into contact. To do so effectively for larger areas, one must be rather skilled, but there are many situations where one not quite so high tier would be able to do so effectively, or at least assist.

• Sustained healing over time can have an impact on mental illness, at the player's discretion. This would be long and drawn out, but it's an extension of a cleric's ability to sooth someone's mind (which also wasn't mentioned as far as I saw, but is a thing clerics can do).

• Why can’t you achieve mastery in War Clericism and Priest Healing? To my knowledge, that has never been a thing before, and seems like a very harsh way to encourage specialization.

• You don't need to be a war cleric to create blessings with your magic, priest healers alone can learn to do it as well.

• Having Tah inform high ranking Clerics of any breaking of the tenets is really just an excuse for metagaming, which shouldn’t be happening. As such, these visions will only happen if the LT or MAT deem the character a real problem Cleric, otherwise such transgressions must be found out IC. If you think that someone is due for disconnection but have no reasonable knowledge IC, you can approach either team to discuss it with them.

• The Calming Light spell within priest healing is far too offensive and over-powered, as one literally just touches the person and they drop. Such a spell could be used for healing, gradually calming an injured person and putting them to rest so their pain doesn’t cause them to struggle while being healed, but should not be used offensively as a way to drop people.

• Though disconnection was not always a ritual, it would seem that it’s become the status quo for it to be a ritual. As such, from now on it must be learned/taught in order to be performed, but anyone who was granted Clerical Magic prior to the old MAT being dissolved would know the ritual. This stops characters who had this ability pre-ritual from losing it, while also maintaining the ritual.

 

We realize this is a lot of feedback and desired changes for this lore, but it’s extensive and meant to clarify that which has been unclear, so we wanted to make sure it was done right. If everything seems fine to you, feel free to just post below saying such. If not, we can set up a skype chat of sorts to discuss issues.

Sorry for the delay, and thanks for your patience!

[Ventusyr 232]

After some discussion, the explanation for healing is staying. It's the channeling of Aengulic power that is overwhelming and having it just be a simple thing in the context of the difficulty of first connections, and since 2014 losing focus has brought disastrous consequences. The calming light shall not be removed either, but the drawbacks of it shall be more clear and the energy drain shall increase, so that such a spell in combat would hardly be convenient, except to prevent it.

 

Alright, so gonna make a checklist on things left to do for the lore:

 

[   ] Finish implementing Three Mechanisms of Healing

[   ] Expand on effects of disconnection

[   ] Write in changes to Itharel.

[   ] Add that clerics can have more than four colors

[   ] Fix Creator cleric origin

[   ] Remove Order-specific cleric abilities

[   ] Edit that priest healing is still burning to dark beings

[   ] Edit that war cleric light is the same burning, you can just hold it for longer periods of time

[   ] Clarify that the times spent in each tier are an example, and not a canonized thing

[   ] Change taint purging so it can be done by clerics of all tiers, to varying degrees of skill, as our magic was made to destroy taint

[   ] Add in that PH can do taint healing (This is after discussion with druids. A tier 5 priest could do about as much tainted land as a body would occupy, so this is still blight healer's domain. Blight healers can also legally purge bodily taint if we get to do any land taint.)

[   ] Add in mental healing, with an accompanying example emote

[   ] Add in that you can be T5 in both WC and PH

[   ] Edit that blessing can be learned by both WC and PH

[   ] Remove the vision thing for disconnection, unless the MAT/LT deems a cleric a poor RPer, in which case proof of their inability to properly RP a cleric must be brought up prior to vision/disconnection

[   ] Nerf the Light of Calming spell

[   ] Clarify clerics from all walks of life and from the last MAT can disconnect

 

I'll put in little green Os or something in the boxes when I finish em. I'm going to need some time; college has just started for me. Again, I thank you for all the feedback y'all have given me!

[Pandan 1448]

Moved to roleplay ideas whilst its being worked upon. 

[Swgrclan 2633]

Though I've already expressed my thoughts on Itheral in the Cleric Skype chat, I must admit they still feel lacking -- an unnecessary asset to a magic group that is already capable of purging evil efficiently, with only faltering numbers to keep them from rising up to what they can actually achieve. I still recall the day when they came about. In Mid-Anthos, when the Harbingers were waging their antagonist campaign, Wraiths came about and then within the very same week, Itheral, whom held no accepted lore and appeared almost directly derivative of Diablo 3's angels, soon followed. As I saw it, it was a skewed attempt at recreating the Ascended to combat the new forces of darkness that had come about. They were still illegitimate, and I dare say still are, as they never had proper approval in the first place. I see their purpose has been lost and yet they linger on as grounded, approved entities - why? Though the point seems terse, it's apparent they have no use besides acting as a leaders and heroes to swoop in and save the day from sinister beings and unsavory individuals whom are versed in the Dark Arts. It's a bit of an offset, considering things are supposed to be dynamic and that the side the Itheral fight have no viable counter to them. You can say Wraiths, but, well, it's not Wraiths.

I recall a discussion with Hesh on turning Itheral into more passive, prophetic figures who hold less superpowers and more "fair" advantages, like holy blood, or amplified healing powers, or something creative and contributive to roleplay that doesn't involve vigorously beating hooded gents down with weapons made of light. I would hope that this is still a plan, even though it effects Itheral of the other Clerical patrons as well.