[Shelved]The Clerics Of Tahariae

[Ford 1990]

Though I've already expressed my thoughts on Itheral in the Cleric Skype chat, I must admit they still feel lacking -- an unnecessary asset to a magic group that is already capable of purging evil efficiently, with only faltering numbers to keep them from rising up to what they can actually achieve. I still recall the day when they came about. In Mid-Anthos, when the Harbingers were waging their antagonist campaign, Wraiths came about and then within the very same week, Itheral, whom held no accepted lore and appeared almost directly derivative of Diablo 3's angels, soon followed. As I saw it, it was a skewed attempt at recreating the Ascended to combat the new forces of darkness that had come about. They were still illegitimate, and I dare say still are, as they never had proper approval in the first place. I see their purpose has been lost and yet they linger on as grounded, approved entities - why? Though the point seems terse, it's apparent they have no use besides acting as a leaders and heroes to swoop in and save the day from sinister beings and unsavory individuals whom are versed in the Dark Arts. It's a bit of an offset, considering things are supposed to be dynamic and that the side the Itheral fight have no viable counter to them. You can say Wraiths, but, well, it's not Wraiths.

I recall a discussion with Hesh on turning Itheral into more passive, prophetic figures who hold less superpowers and more "fair" advantages, like holy blood, or amplified healing powers, or something creative and contributive to roleplay that doesn't involve vigorously beating hooded gents down with weapons made of light. I would hope that this is still a plan, even though it effects Itheral of the other Clerical patrons as well.

Preach it my niqqa. 

 

I feel like some changes should be made to the clerics/itharels/paladins, but additionally, what we really need?

 

A NEW LINGERING DAEMON

 

the only actual daemon i can name that was equivalent in power to Aeriel was Iblees. This happened so long ago, though. 

 

I want Ikuras to be approved as a daemon. I really do. Ikuras would be a great belligerent force in this battle between dark arts users and divine magic users. Ikuras even came with its own magic, Phobism. 

 

But, unfortunately, guess what happened? Clerics got approval (unofficially, as you said) and paladins as well. 

 

But Ikuras as a daemon? DENIED.

 

Phobism as a corollary power that could be used by worshippers of Ikuras? DENIED.

 

very unfair imo

[DISCOLIQUID 1963]

Though I've already expressed my thoughts on Itheral in the Cleric Skype chat, I must admit they still feel lacking -- an unnecessary asset to a magic group that is already capable of purging evil efficiently, with only faltering numbers to keep them from rising up to what they can actually achieve. I still recall the day when they came about. In Mid-Anthos, when the Harbingers were waging their antagonist campaign, Wraiths came about and then within the very same week, Itheral, whom held no accepted lore and appeared almost directly derivative of Diablo 3's angels, soon followed. As I saw it, it was a skewed attempt at recreating the Ascended to combat the new forces of darkness that had come about. They were still illegitimate, and I dare say still are, as they never had proper approval in the first place. I see their purpose has been lost and yet they linger on as grounded, approved entities - why? Though the point seems terse, it's apparent they have no use besides acting as a leaders and heroes to swoop in and save the day from sinister beings and unsavory individuals whom are versed in the Dark Arts. It's a bit of an offset, considering things are supposed to be dynamic and that the side the Itheral fight have no viable counter to them. You can say Wraiths, but, well, it's not Wraiths.

I recall a discussion with Hesh on turning Itheral into more passive, prophetic figures who hold less superpowers and more "fair" advantages, like holy blood, or amplified healing powers, or something creative and contributive to roleplay that doesn't involve vigorously beating hooded gents down with weapons made of light. I would hope that this is still a plan, even though it effects Itheral of the other Clerical patrons as well.

 

 

SWGRclan has already stated the points that I would, but I feel that I should reiterate points that stick out to me.

 

Itharel have no true counter. They are beings of living ichor that can bring holy armor to materialize around themselves with little to no effort. Their healing powers, if they have access to such, are relatively unparalleled. An Itharel effectively destroys Dread Knights, Wraiths, Undead, Ghouls, and other Dark Arts practitioners with little to no effort. The side of 'evil', as a roleplaying group, has little to offer to combat these paragons of light, and as such, battles are relatively one sided, unfair, and unenjoyable as a dark arts player. 

 

A wraith, who some may consider the pinnacle of dark arts power, is essentially the big bad evil guy of the player run side of darkness. In contrast, the Itharel are the big bad good guys of the player run side of light. It would make sense that an Itharel and a Wraith should have epic combat, but the combat between a Wraith and an Itharel might go something like this.

 

Wraith Bob, who is a master of necromancy, attempts to drain the Itharel.

[!] The Itharel, Sally, has no life-force capable of being drained.

Wraith Bob, noticing this, uses earth evocation to blast a spike of earth at the Itharel.

[!] Sally's armor takes the hit. Sally stumbles back, gathers her focus, and blasts a ray of light at Wraith Bob.

[!] Wraith Bob demanifests almost instantly.

 

There is no need for the side of light to have such an impossibly strong counter to all of the Dark Arts. At this point, all it would take to defeat an entire gathering of the dark arts players on the server would be an Itharel, two golems, and perhaps four other clerics.

 

I am a fan of dynamic role-play. With the current strength of Itharel and Clerics alike, there is no dynamic -- there is only defeat. I hope for, as SWGRclan put it, "something creative and contributive to roleplay that doesn't involve vigorously beating hooded gents down with weapons made of light. "

[Arkelos 1027]

 There is also Kyral, who betrayed Tah to become something and is now a Druid. Her symptoms were banished by Herun (citation needed, can't remember her explanation fully, but it was one of the Xan Itharel thingies). Straight-up banished. 

 

I never said any of this, where did I say this? Who did you ask about this? You're going to have to talk to me over Skype Hesh, this whole thing was taken out of context.

 

Edit: She also became a Druid because the Aspects are Neutral. Just throwing that out there.

[Delmodan 852]

 

 

 There is also Kyral, who betrayed Tah to become something and is now a Druid. Her symptoms were banished by Herun (citation needed, can't remember her explanation fully, but it was one of the Xan Itharel thingies). Straight-up banished. 

I am making a correction here. In this case, Herun had risk a PK in order to heal Kyral of all her scars and whatever blight was within her (blight being that from the harbinger she fought beforehand), but the negative effects upon getting disconnected from a deity's magic is still there and cannot be undone.

[Ventusyr 232]

After discussion with the player of Kyral, it's been clarified it was a temporary relief from the insanity caused by the disconnection, not a permanent erasure of symptoms. They returned after a few days. In the RP where Arkelos' character told my character, the part where the symptoms eventually returned was not mentioned.

As for Itharel, they have been reworked, I just need to update the thread. They are now far weaker: they no longer have access to priest healing magic (instead, they have to reform like Dread Knights over long periods of time), and they are very vulnerable to any and all weapons provided it makes it through their armor (their ichor is like blood, only kept in by the skin. If that is cut, and the Itharel bleeds out, they go into a comatose state to reform that can take several elven days). They are also being renamed to the Venators. So, much to (I hope) the joy of our darker community, they have indeed been nerfed quite a bit, and are actually killable (sort of) now.

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

If you're letting an Itharel wreck you, you're doing something wrong lol. Take a crossbow and pop a bolt in their face, decapitate them, smash them with a warhammer, tons of ways to take care of them. If you're a wraith or something strong in dark arts, you're going to be weaker to the light. There are ways to counter that though, seek out anti-deity gear and smack an Itharel while they cast. If they're insta-casting holy fire, they're powergaming. Or use magic to halt their casting like your example. Although, in that, why are you attacking something in armor head on like that? That's just poor combat skills by the wraith. Aim a sharp rock for the back of the Itharel's knee, boom they're disabled for a moment and then you sweep in with something else. Nothing is invincible, there are plenty of ways to kill "OP" creatures like Itharel or Wraiths or things along those lines. What I do agree about though is the lack of lifeforce to drain. Which I haven't seen mentioned in what Hesh said above.

 

tl;dr - Itharels, wraiths, "OP" creatures ain't anything special and can be taken care of easily if you stop and think for a moment. Oh, and fix the lifeforce thing.

[DISCOLIQUID 1963]

If you're letting an Itharel wreck you, you're doing something wrong lol. Take a crossbow and pop a bolt in their face, decapitate them, smash them with a warhammer, tons of ways to take care of them. If you're a wraith or something strong in dark arts, you're going to be weaker to the light. There are ways to counter that though, seek out anti-deity gear and smack an Itharel while they cast. If they're insta-casting holy fire, they're powergaming. Or use magic to halt their casting like your example. Although, in that, why are you attacking something in armor head on like that? That's just poor combat skills by the wraith. Aim a sharp rock for the back of the Itharel's knee, boom they're disabled for a moment and then you sweep in with something else. Nothing is invincible, there are plenty of ways to kill "OP" creatures like Itharel or Wraiths or things along those lines. What I do agree about though is the lack of lifeforce to drain. Which I haven't seen mentioned in what Hesh said above.

 

tl;dr - Itharels, wraiths, "OP" creatures ain't anything special and can be taken care of easily if you stop and think for a moment. Oh, and fix the lifeforce thing.

Lifeforce thing is mainly my main complaint, to be honest. If that was fixed, Wraiths and Itharel could actually have epic combat. 

[Ventusyr 232]

I'm very skeptical about the life force drain.

First of all, it is quite OP. A T5 necromancer can kill someone in agonizing ways IMMEDIATELY if they come within a few feet of them, and slowly (but still painfully) if they are further. The pain is such that whoever is suffering from it won't be able to summon their magic or do anything except writhe and scream. So, no, I don't think Itharel should have life force to drain. That won't make epic battles, that'll just be wraiths insta-killing Itharel slightly slower than they can insta-kill everybody else. Katari was right in saying there are plenty of ways to kill an Itharel, especially mundane ways, and THOSE will actually bring some roleplay to battles rather than a life drain that can't be countered. At all.

I only listed a couple of the changes that will be made to Itharel. There are going to be many, and I'll publish them into the lore. Trust me, these guys are most definitely defeatable now.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Незнакомец

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

I'm very skeptical about the life force drain.

First of all, it is quite OP. A T5 necromancer can kill someone in agonizing ways IMMEDIATELY if they come within a few feet of them, and slowly (but still painfully) if they are further. The pain is such that whoever is suffering from it won't be able to summon their magic or do anything except writhe and scream. So, no, I don't think Itharel should have life force to drain. That won't make epic battles, that'll just be wraiths insta-killing Itharel slightly slower than they can insta-kill everybody else. Katari was right in saying there are plenty of ways to kill an Itharel, especially mundane ways, and THOSE will actually bring some roleplay to battles rather than a life drain that can't be countered. At all.

I only listed a couple of the changes that will be made to Itharel. There are going to be many, and I'll publish them into the lore. Trust me, these guys are most definitely defeatable now.

I'm not saying to give the Itharel lifeforce that can be insta-drained like normal folks. It'd have to be tweaked and whatnot due to them being holy beings and whatnot. But until I see all the changes I suppose I can't speak on if it's actually needed.

 

So I'll wait and until then I'll stand by my previous statement about there already being plenty of ways to stomp an Itharel.

[dandan1350 479]

Lore has been changed on the Itharel, adapted and what not and is being tweaked with each review. They've always been stronk, they're supposed to be stronk, they were made to kill stronkerer things then normal. With the new changes you shouldn't be getting into combat with Itharel unless you've drawn their attention in someway due to recent changes in their reasons for being. So if you find yourself in single combat with an Itharel, you dun' fudged up by confronting it from now on. Don't move and they can't see you!

[Ford 1990]

I'm very skeptical about the life force drain.

First of all, it is quite OP. A T5 necromancer can kill someone in agonizing ways IMMEDIATELY if they come within a few feet of them, and slowly (but still painfully) if they are further. The pain is such that whoever is suffering from it won't be able to summon their magic or do anything except writhe and scream. So, no, I don't think Itharel should have life force to drain. That won't make epic battles, that'll just be wraiths insta-killing Itharel slightly slower than they can insta-kill everybody else. Katari was right in saying there are plenty of ways to kill an Itharel, especially mundane ways, and THOSE will actually bring some roleplay to battles rather than a life drain that can't be countered. At all.

I only listed a couple of the changes that will be made to Itharel. There are going to be many, and I'll publish them into the lore. Trust me, these guys are most definitely defeatable now.

That's not even true about necromancers.

 

Where did you even get that from.

 

They have to be touching or very close to the person they're draining for the process to actually take place. And, honestly, the way I see it, what can you do but writhe and scream when someone shoots a bolt in your spine? a dagger to your back or lower neck (collarbone height)? Sneaking up behind someone and then beginning the process of draining them still takes a moment, in which interval of time you can swipe at their hand and or move away or attack. But yeah, basically while you're being drained by a T5 it's difficult to wiggle away. There's nothing too OP with that, and it all depends on how large of a person you are. Usually weaker people won't be able to escape at all, while larger, buffer people might stand a better chance. 

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

Where did you even get that from.

"The Masters of Necromancy have broadened the range and capabilities of the drain. The target is no longer required to be immobile for the drain to begin, but needs to be within 7-8 feet (3-4 blocks) of the Necromancer. Upon beginning, it will immediately paralyze the victim, as the body pulls blood to the vital organs in an attempt to keep them running, the area of the drain’s focus will blacken, as the skin directly under it begins to perish."

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/90363-necromancy-guide/ From here, Ford. 

[Ventusyr 232]

That's not even true about necromancers.

 

Where did you even get that from.

 

They have to be touching or very close to the person they're draining for the process to actually take place. And, honestly, the way I see it, what can you do but writhe and scream when someone shoots a bolt in your spine? a dagger to your back or lower neck (collarbone height)? Sneaking up behind someone and then beginning the process of draining them still takes a moment, in which interval of time you can swipe at their hand and or move away or attack. But yeah, basically while you're being drained by a T5 it's difficult to wiggle away. There's nothing too OP with that, and it all depends on how large of a person you are. Usually weaker people won't be able to escape at all, while larger, buffer people might stand a better chance. 

"The Masters of Necromancy have broadened the range and capabilities of the drain. The target is no longer required to be immobile for the drain to begin, but needs to be within 7-8 feet (3-4 blocks) of the Necromancer. Upon beginning, it will immediately paralyze the victim, as the body pulls blood to the vital organs in an attempt to keep them running, the area of the drain’s focus will blacken, as the skin directly under it begins to perish. A burning sensation will cover their body, as excruciating pain floods down their arms and legs, the skin of their extremities dying, and beginning to peel off in small sheets. Their nervous system will begin shutting down, blinding them, they would be deafened, being unable to even hear themselves. Their sense of smell and taste will be overwhelmed with the stench of sulphur, as searing heat covers their throat and lungs. The body will attempt to rapidly burn any excess of fat, trying to supply energy to the failing organs. After a few minutes, the victim will perish."

 

"Masters of Necromancy have increased the range of which they can tether onto targets, being able to do so if the target is within five-six feet of the Necromancer, they have also perfected a way of transferring the tether. If a corpse comes in physical contact of an individual, the Necromancer can switch the tether supplying the corpse from himself to the target, so that the corpse is fueling off the life-force of the target instead of that of the Necromancer. This tether will be broken if the target flees back 7-10 feet (5-6 blocks) from the corpse, or if the corpse’s head is removed/crushed. Targets who are tethered will immediately feel fatigued and dizzy. Their heart-rate will increase

drastically, but their movements themselves will become sluggish and slowed. Physical strain will cause the target excruciating pain, flaring up around the joints. Their eyesight will become dimmed, shadows and flashes replacing it, if the tether is held for a long period of time, they would be temporarily blinded. Their hearing would be replaced with a ringing, itself fading out into deafness. Their mouth will dry, and their breathes will fill like sand running across their throat. The skin on the arms and legs would turn ashen as it begins to perish, layers of it beginning peel off in sheets. If the target runs 18-20 feet (9-10 blocks) from the necromancer, he’ll be unable to keep the the tether, causing it to dissipate. Though the effects of the tether would continue for a few minutes after it is broken. Masters can have up to maintain up to six of these Tethers as once."

 

I got it from your guide...? And being killed by a necro in such a way?

 

Even if it isn't OP, it doesn't produce roleplay for a necro or wraith to drain an Itharel, as it is as effective as stabbing them in the back. I'm against forced backstabbing for RP fights, as that isn't an RP fight but an instakill that produces no roleplay. If you guys are truly concerned with creating roleplay between clerics and necros, or wraiths and Itharel, then tone down the abilities, don't pursue giving Itharel drainable life force, or make it so clerics can break tethers and such with holy light.

[Ricky 320]

Rickard Ireton is the godking of the Clerics

[Stephensj 327]

From a outside view, remember I know little about this magic, but Cleric/Holy Magic seems very OP to me.