[Your View] Metagaming

[Harri 4815]

3 minutes ago, DPM said:

Does this apply to groups poking a message in discord and asking people to rally for events or warclaims?

0

Upvote

 

please read the thread

[Unknown User 316]

I am glad this issue is being addressed. I find myself teetering on both sides of this argument, though.

 

I am happy that the staff are wanting to remove or edit the instant-message system to add a more realistic way of sending letters and such. It doesn't necessarily have to be birds - though back then that would've been the fastest way to send a message. I'd like to see some way of intercepting a message and being able to read it or even edit it before sending it off to its original recipient. Perhaps it could even be a skill in which the more XP you have for it, the less obvious it is that your letter was tampered with or intercepted. This would make for some good villain/spy RP. 

 

To address the metagaming through Skype. I have always been against people screaming in third party chats for people to rally and fight, but sometimes it's actually the most realistic thing to do. People complain about guards metagaming and swarming them after beating up a single soldier in GenericCity#1. But you have to think of this realistically. You enter a city - a bastion of modern society with its own guard force and civilians going about their days. If you, a single person, decide that you can kill or attack a guard or a soldier on duty, surely you have to expect that either other guards will see this and attempt to help their comrade, or that a civilian will scamper off and alert them. You're not Conan the Barbarian or Captain America or Hafthor Bjornsson from Game of Thrones who can take on an entire city by yourself.

 

That being said, I agree that the metagaming through third party chats or even in-game messages needs to stop. But there HAS to be some way of alerting guards or soldiers in a CITY or TOWN that there's a scrap going down. Outside of a city, it makes sense that nobody would know unless you're an idiot and attack someone on a main road. 

 

 

A lot of the problems involving combat and such in the server is that everyone tries to play the hardest, baddest motherfucker around. The 20 year old 6'5'' 250 lbs of muscle meathead northerner who doesn't react to cold weather 'cause he grew up in the north and killed three men by the age of 6. Reality Check: 15-25 year olds are green boys who're still learning to march and use a sword, not hardened veteran warriors.

 

People gotta realize that it's OK to lose an RP fight and it's OK to give up and surrender. It's also OK to allow yourself to be arrested. If there's one thing severely lacking, it's the amount of people who actually let themselves be arrested like civilized people instead of wildly swinging their sword and fighting to the death over some petty argument or random scrap.

 

[NotEvilAtAll 10906]

I do agree that rallies are often unfair, but in certain situations it's the only way to make sure half your population isn't enslaved by Orcs. 

 

As far as birds go, maybe we could create a simple bird plugin IDK, it'd be fun to RP running an avairy after all. 

[Jake the Dog 290]

Boo hoo villain rp players. It's so hard for them when they try to murder someone in the middle of the street in a densely populated city. We must make it so when they do perform blatant acts of crime, no one can respond. Yes!

[fighting evil by moonlight 455]

This will only be done for ic messages right? I'm concerned that if we change the messaging system it'll make talking to staff members or friends OOCly on the server awful

[Wendigo 786]

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/forums/topic/157488-disallow-birds-whilst-in-rp-combative-got-qualms-with-bird-mechanics/?page=3

Just gonna toss this out there..

 

Meta-gaming has been an issue since I joined the server nearly 4-5 years ago. People make up excuses, you disprove the excuses which then they come up with more which you further disprove and all that's done is a GM tells them not to do it again and the rp is voided. There should be much harsher penalties for such actions.

 

Meta-gaming is basically cheating, except on a worse scale in this case as it's a multiplayer server. It ruins a lot of carefully crafted rp and therefore fun for not only the target of the meta-gaming but the people they were also involved with. It's a disease to put it lightly. I can't count the number of times to I've had to Sherlock Holmes track down people because they somehow knew about my shade through so and so and then it turns out the person never even knew in the first place.

 

It got to the point I would start making lists on a word doc of people who knew, and then had the other shades practice the same thing because it's gotten THAT BAD. It's really rather sad.

 

Here's the thing though, people have been complaining for god knows how long about meta-gaming and nothings been done through the years. I'd be surprised if anything at all results from this thread.

[Disheartened 809]

Sooo.... raiders can really to attack a city but the city cannot call upon their guards to defend even if they logged out inside the city? Hm... sounds like there would be a lot of lost raids happening at 11pm every night. I have seen a bird plugin in action before, though. They're pretty cool. 

[rukio 8924]

I mean, I think you shouldn't be allowed to send birds if you're already in a conflict. If I want to send a bird to tell a friend where to meet me so we can discuss how they're feeling or something though, I don't see why that would be an issue. Why punish people who use birds outside of conflict situations too? I've always roleplayed my bird's existence too, it would "hurt" (read: Make no sense to my character. I barely use him at this point though.) to see him no longer have a use if messenger birds were removed. 

[_Sug 2809]

4 hours ago, Harrison said:

wanted to RP… something else… between two romantically involved characters.)

"It's your emote btw."

In all honesty it's nice to see this metagaming situation being addressed.

[Nathan_Barnett36 1564]

Of course skype rallying should be allowed. You live in a place which is being raided, in roleplay you would know about it but because you're offline, you don't know. People voting against this clearly have never been raided or have raided.

5 hours ago, Harrison said:

simply put, if you are not there, you are not there ICly

Since we're so focused on roleplay where does your character go, in roleplay and sticks with lotc lore, when you log off?

[Cilantro 18]

27 minutes ago, Nathan_Barnett36 said:

where does your character go, when you log off?

0

Upvote

 

 

[Gallic 1066]

Alright so I really dig that Aviary stuff. The idea of people actually needing to go to the aviary to write a messenger bird and that bird going to a predestined place, I feel, is a lot easier to RP and a lot less capable of meta. I hope it's ( relatively ) easy to get aviaries, though, so that rich people and guilds can get their own if they want it. I also hope that they can be used to message offline players so that, y'know, you don't have to move to Skype if you need to send a letter to someone who isn't on.

 

However, that's were I kind'a stop supporting things. If the town has an alarm bell or whatever, then all the guards SHOULD be crawling out of the woodwork to meet whatever caused it if it's used. I don't think it's cool when five guys happen to walk up on something sketchy, but if they live in the place then they should have some way of being alerted when someone rings the "****'s going down" bell. I mean, don't get me wrong; I've had tons of people accuse me of being the meta squad so I know full well this is a problem, I just don't think banning skype rallies outright is gonna fix it at all. The meta squads will just personally message people.

 

( Also, Skype rallies are used for more than just threats; They're used to gather for events and stuff and that'd straight-up be getting in the way of RP if you don't allow people to gather folks to attend them and they just have to rely on who happened to remember or be around at the given time. )

 

Okay and here's the last thing; I'm confused about what Skype RP is banned here, because you say that "roleplay that didn't occur on the server didn't occur at all" yet say that roleplay that doesn't effect others doesn't count? I might be ignorant here, but isn't small-scale RP that doesn't effect anyone else the entire point of Skype RP? So why would it be banned in the first place, then? Who suggested this rule and what does it serve?

 

I've personally only done it a few times; To RP with my character's mother, to teach a dedicant who lacked a computer, and to send elaborate letters of significance to people. Would those now be breaking the rules if they were acknowledged on the server?

[Gone 869]

5 hours ago, Harrison said:

Rallying, however: no. Just logging in to deal with someone, after being told about them on skype, in the city to immediately log off is not allowed as of this post. It's unfair on villainous role-players as it makes it near impossible to achieve anything.

0
 

 

I love you

 

I've always thought of and rpd offline people as being either asleep, out of town, or working on something elsewhere. Isn't that difficult to come up with an excuse for people being away and abrupt Skype rallies are cancer. 

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

This is the linandria main square.

 

https://gyazo.com/b265ae28ae28c82344e421e9a314ecaa

 

As you can see, it is not very big.

 

It also happens to be where everyone in the city loiters, AFKs or hangs out as our central hub of RP. To prove this, here are a few screenshots.

 

https://gyazo.com/c21e104abe672d1ff87c21b664eeef06

https://gyazo.com/28a89a8c55024f0ff0d6e58399f11ee7

https://gyazo.com/a64891796338032e2f628cd2ddaf4e5c

https://gyazo.com/c1dd795d7b60495ceece7b0ed7571914

 

95% of raids, banditry, and general conflict happens in this square, or within its line of sight. I assume most cities also have an equivalent central area.

 

When conflict occurs in this area of the city, and I require backup, I go on skype and I ask the Sirame (our guard force, who lives in the city, and whose characters still live in the city even when their players are offline) to log on and help out. Rarely if ever do I even specify on skype where the conflict is happening, because they know by probability alone its going to be in the main square.

 

I will not stop rallying Sirame on skype for this purpose, and will ignore any rule that forbids me from doing so. Guards who live in the city should be rallyable through skype VIA asking them to log on. In RP, they live there, and if the conflict is happening in a public location then there is absolutely no reason that they should not be able to RPly respond to the situation.

 

The "if you aren't online when the conflict starts, you aren't there in RP" mentality is bullshit. So my character, who lives in the city, ceases to exist if a fight breaks out in his city while he is offline? Usually when I am offline, I RP my character doing mundane ****. Eating, shitting, sleeping, living out his day to day life. Are you forcing us to basically "off-screen" RP that they're OUTSIDE of the city they LIVE IN and are somehow for some dumb reason unable to respond every single time people attack its most public square?

 

Not only is that forcing an RP scenario on us regardless of how much it makes sense for our characters, that's very farfetched, and I'm not buying it nor will I abide by it. Think of when it comes up in RP.

 

"Soldier! Our city was plundered by bandits! Why weren't you there to fight for us?!"

 

"I dont know sergeant. By all accounts I SHOULD have been there. I live in this city, the bandits were in a public area we hang out in all the time so its not like finding them would have been hard for me, and I had plenty of time to respond. I guess some otherworldly force put its invisible hand on me and dragged me into the void for the duration of the fight. Hand of  the skygods sir, you know how it is."

 

"I see, perfectly understandable, soldier."

 

No, that'd be retarded.

 

Now, on the flipside, if conflict breaks out in a more obscure part of the city (in Linandria, its usually within its tree-houses area or upper plateau. Really, its quite a small city), then I do not send guards over to help. This doubly applies if a conflict is happening outside the city, on the roads or in the forest. In this, the people in support of the new rules are correct. Characters should not suddenly rally to places they would not usually be.

 

But, a public area in a public city by guards who live there and whose day job is to protect it? No. Rallying people on skype for that is reasonable, and will always be done whether or not you like it.

 

I'll end on this note. Metagaming is the use of OOC information to benefit you in RP. Keyword, OOC into RP.

 

Logging on is not an act of RP.

 

Being told exactly where a conflict is and where to go OOCly, and acting on it in RP, is infact, metagaming.

 

Being asked to log on and find the conflict yourself (when usually its in the most populated, obvious area of a city) is not metagaming.

 

Go ahead and ban me if you like. I wont be following a rule that cripples a guard forces ability to defend its own city.

 

[zaezae 1098]

How about this, guards can only be skype rallied only if in the exact moment they log in, their persona is actually in the city?