Pantheon Project Player Input

[Zarsies 6024]

Howdy!

 

(This will firstly be an info dump and an input opportunity at the end.)

 

As touched on here by Flam, the ST has working on a large overhaul of the pantheon canon to update, refine, and add depth to each deity and their patrons to replace poor writing and correct bad use of the past all within the wider narrative. This will set the aenguls and daemons further back in the scene and bring their patrons closer to the front; deities can and will still bestow magic but they will no longer be able to be directly contacted or interacted with and their patrons will act as their emissaries. The wider front for deities will take the form of shrines and boons for their covenants.

 

Covenants are the five ‘factions’ or groups in which the aenguls and daemons cluster within made of like-minded/complementary deities. There is a deeper scheme of intraparty and interparty politics and conflict but the covenants act as moderate alliances between those most conceptually related on a cosmic scale, exemplified in their names*; the houses of mercy, tears, scales, smoke, and lore. While all deities have their own goals and aspirations, the covenants have a unified and general goal which they peddle which takes form with shrines and boons.
(* subject to change)

 

Shrines and boons are the locations/objects whereupon prayer and rituals are performed and their rewards respectively. Shrines vary in shape from covenant to covenant but can either be committed to a general covenant or a particular few or single deity within them (meaning existing places or objects of worship needn’t change). Boons are household magic style feats the covenants grant to those who dedicate themselves to the mortal goals that respective covenant promotes, be it spreading camaraderie or supporting growth for the House of Mercy or propagating deception or acts of thievery for the House of Smoke. A character can only benefit from one boon at a time and changing them is difficult and infrequent (as they’re intended to promote their given sphere of roleplay from character faith and not be minmaxed / flavor of the month). Excessive completion/fulfillment of a covenant or singular deity’s mortal goals, usually repeatedly in groups, will allow the given party to reach out and contact a patron (sometimes selected by choice, sometimes by chance) which can end up doing various things of various difficulty and frequency such as providing assistance for something physical, giving advice, or giving information. Through the same manner worshippers can support a patron to succeed their deity or in some events even have a player character ascend to patronhood (and, potentially, godhood through the previous method). Note that boons will widely exist merely as feats and the events are much harder to come by.  

 

All of the changes presented in the pantheon project’s overhaul of the lore is justified by a story to support it (as well as the Void project’s changes). The team decided the fates of each deity between 4 categories: to keep the deity as-is for the vast majority and merely update their lore to the new format and consolidate multiple threads into one, to rework the deity by retaining their main original concept and making small changes, to rewrite the deity and redress them head to toe with elements of their original lore but have large changes, or to kill the deity and thereby axe them completely and put their lore to bed and, depending on the case, replace them with a successor as both an end-of-an-era event to justify drastic changes. As to not pull any overwhelming surprises on anyone down the line I’ll start by share it now:

 

The current kill list includes Gazardiel, Asura, Metztli, Valaen, Aeriel, and Iblees.

 

Four new deities (two aenguls, two daemons) will also be introduced, three of which will be directly imposed successors to the killed gods (Gazardiel, Aeriel, and Iblees). In Metztli’s case later events will decide which of her patrons end up succeeding her but Asura and Valaen will not have replacements.

 

The rest of the lists look like this:
 

Spoiler

Keep:
-The Aspects
-Xan
-Apohet
-Dragur (minor change)
-Lyes (pending involvement with FinalHazard)
-Llahir
-Garumdir (minor change)
-Vaasek

 

Rework:
-Yeu Rthulu (pending current rewrite and changes)
-Malchediael
-Tahariae
-Ydea

 

Rewrite:
-Wyvrun
-Eshtael
-Tayl
-The Old Ones

 

Here is the input part. Mostly regarding those slated to be reworked and rewritten, if you have any thoughts or insights to how you believe those deities ought to be written this thread’s comments, my forum inbox, and Discord PMs (Zarsies#6396) are open channels for you to express them. If you are seeking discussion please opt for forum or Discord PMs. All of the given deities already have directions we want to take them but your input is gladly heard to be considered and incorporated. 
 

[Andustar 2115]

Could you further elaborate on the deities you wish to remove and why it’s your policy to do so?  I think it’s appropriate you explain your reasoning behind this with greater depth.  Also, will we be allowed to deliver input on the deities you’re proposing for removal? @Zarsies

[Hiebe 2475]

Missed all of the dwarven gods....

[𝕾𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖌𝖚𝖘𝖍 2236]

I think it’d be nice to see the aspects of an Aengul or Daemon to be more specific and set on some kind of standard on what they represent and the powers they give. Some are pretty out there for example, a Daemon of Time is acceptable for a group but it would cause trouble for a shaman if they meddled with a Elemental of Time.

As for the axing of Aerial and Iblees I find to be a bit discouraging. I have always seen them as a balance of the Aengu-daemons with Aerial as Arch-Aengul and Iblees as Arch-Daemon and everything good/evil falls between the two. I’m not exactly sure how one could kill/remove a top tier Deity, but i’m also not sure what would be worth replacing with and still make sense. I understand why people might jump on a end-of-an-era bandwagon, but these are immortal deities made by the Creator that are meant to last centuries over. New generations and characters give rise, but learn the ancient teachings of their ancestors.

[Man of Respect 5430]

Boons can work if there’s no way for players to min-max them, maybe give a blessing with a curse at the same time?

[ScreamingDingo 16792]

3 hours ago, Stargush said:

I think it’d be nice to see the aspects of an Aengul or Daemon to be more specific and set on some kind of standard on what they represent and the powers they give. Some are pretty out there for example, a Daemon of Time is acceptable for a group but it would cause trouble for a shaman if they meddled with a Elemental of Time.

As for the axing of Aerial and Iblees I find to be a bit discouraging. I have always seen them as a balance of the Aengu-daemons with Aerial as Arch-Aengul and Iblees as Arch-Daemon and everything good/evil falls between the two. I’m not exactly sure how one could kill/remove a top tier Deity, but i’m also not sure what would be worth replacing with and still make sense. I understand why people might jump on a end-of-an-era bandwagon, but these are immortal deities made by the Creator that are meant to last centuries over. New generations and characters give rise, but learn the ancient teachings of their ancestors.

 

Realistically, the mantra of arch-aengul/arch-daemon is pretty dated and limits how gods and other powers can manuever themselves within lore. Iblees is already basically "dead" and has been for a few maps, and Aeriels role has descended from being the head of the pantheon to a glorified mouthpiece to be abused and referenced. There's a definite reorientation away from the ideas of the "angels and demons" and it's something that will fit lotc better imo. And they've been around for at least previous to recorded time, they've been around for at least 2000+ in the scheme of things. Since all the aengudaemonic formation and creator stuff was prior to the original brother cursing and ****

 

also spirits are useless they're just Apohets poo nuggets x

[Katherine1 362]

Given the Aspects are, in fact, two (plus one “secret”) distinct aengudaemons, how do they fit with these new covenants? Are they a covenant? Are they grouped together under a larger covenant? Are they split between covenants but still working together when it comes to nature? What’s the plan here?

[DragonofTaters 470]

Letting players have the option of becoming a patron or a god is a horrendous idea. You should never allow a player character that kind of power.

[Old-Rattlesnake 1477]

Inb4 half the ST make their characters gods

[argonian 12836]

there is only one god

[Katherine1 362]

30 minutes ago, shoahinsnowyfields said:

there is only one god

Saying that won’t make it so ?

[argonian 12836]

11 minutes ago, Katherine1 said:

Saying that won’t make it so ?

the lore makes it so 

[Katherine1 362]

16 minutes ago, shoahinsnowyfields said:

the lore makes it so 

Please, we all know he’s a Voidal Horror ?

[Sorcerio 4594]

2 hours ago, MiaKestrel said:

Letting players have the option of becoming a patron or a god is a horrendous idea. You should never allow a player character that kind of power.

This should really only apply if the character is dead and unplayable by normal players.

[Katherine1 362]

36 minutes ago, Alpheus said:

This should really only apply if the character is dead and unplayable by normal players.

And even then with characters from staff, becoming a patron/god should render the character unplayable to them as well, requiring other staff members to RP them, or else it’s just a path to godhood for the staff.

 

I don’t like it. I see attempts to dethrone the current gods in our future if this follower->patron->god pipeline remains in place.