Cobbler 809 Share Posted April 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said: Turning this into “Our community vs their community” is a really mature and well minded way of going about this debate, I am predominately an Elf and I couldn’t give a **** if humans get guns. Now wipe the dribble off your chin and use your brain when engaging in this debate. Here is my thing, despite magic itself being incredibly boring and useless, to the point where people aren’t even scared or amazed by it anymore in roleplay, humans can’t even learn it properly. Humans live incredibly short lives, and while getting T5 in any magic takes around 20+ years, it will leave the user with a physically weak body. Humans legit are stuck to only doing slice of life roleplay. There is zero inventing that we can do without hitting a techlock, and opening up flintlocks is the only viable option for us to move forward. This isn’t even a debate at this point, it should be straight facts that someone has re-discovered the uses of gunpowder if we legit just raided a fort with grenades and explosive powder in it. Ridiculous. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 14254 Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 minute ago, ReveredOwl said: Same with magic tbh. The powergaming argument is incredibly stupid. If people powergame you report them like you do normally. This. I never got to choose to reject all the 100 million dumbass CA creatures and evil event monsters we had added down the years just because I didn’t want to interact with them. No regard was given for my view of the “setting and theme” when dozens of different kinds of magic where added and the mage population ballooned out of control(there were legitimately like 5 mages total early on in the server). No regard was given for our regard of the "setting and theme” when cat-people were added. Those things ruined the medieval setting far more than weapons which were already beginning to see their first use at the tail-end of the medieval period. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taketheshot 3834 Share Posted April 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, JuliusAakerlund said: I personally don’t like firearms but i’d also fight to the death for your right to have them if that’s what the server wants. That is the responsibility we take on as staff members. We are here to serve the community and to do right by them. That’s just my piece on it ?♂️ A noble gesture my man, I wish all staff members were like you, thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkgasm 267 Share Posted April 19, 2020 We are already losing sight of what it is to a medieval fantasy Roleplay server. This will just drag us further from GOD's light. I vote no. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaii 572 Share Posted April 19, 2020 No, It’s a Medieval RolePlay, It wouldn’t fit to have Firearms for LOTC. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickrocky213 792 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Don’t add guns, period. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esterlen 4499 Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said: Not speaking mechanically because lets face it most mechanical combat on this server is dead and its just gonna continue to die due to the server instability. The only thing that matters in this debate is CRP, since that is basically the only way conflict will occur from now on. I already stated my position of just put some rules and buff magic a bit because despite your comment about “Sole Elven Mage”, as far as I can see Magic is absolutely gimped, but at the same time I would like the standard of magic to be raised to make magic magical. Okay, let’s take mechanics out of it and take this only in respect to CRP. Still no more powerful than a crossbow. And I’m sure, if guns were introduced, that the ST would add in all sorts of provisions for CRP with them – no pre-loading, a minimum number of emotes to ram the bullet down the barrel, etcetera. A lot of the magic RPers who are incredibly hostile to this idea (And who are particularly vocal on this thread) fundamentally misunderstand the reasons why most people who want firearms want them. It isn’t to get an edge over people in CRP. I don’t know how many times we have to make that clear. It is simply a matter of people wanting a different flavor for their RP. That’s it. It is purely cosmetic – there is nothing utilitarian about it. If this was any other purely cosmetic topic where somebody wanted a different flavor to their RP, detractors from that would have no real right to complain. All they could really do is take a policy of avoiding and not engaging with it. But because it’s this hot button firearms issue suddenly it concerns everyone who has a forum account. By the way: 8 minutes ago, bungo said: This entire thread is people complaining about things that will not affect them. A gun is as strong as a bow or crossbow mechanically however a great deal of these people complaining can conjure a comet to obliterate me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Muffles 21 Share Posted April 19, 2020 I personally feel that matchlock muskets would work fine. Primitive, experimental and unreliable gunpowder weapons are great for RP, and you can’t powergame with them, really-wandering around with a loaded matchlock or flintlock is impossible, the former because of the necessity to have a burning wick, the latter because the powder would escape the pan, so it’s just as easy to enforce RP-reasonable emote requirements to fire muskets. Besides, muskets are a really cool part of a ~~fifteenth century-analogous battlefield, and as a military-rp fan I would love to see pike-and-shot formations clashing. Just my two cents. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LotsOfMuffins 1358 Share Posted April 19, 2020 No. It’s a fantasy server. Anyone who says we’re nearing the 1800s and should get more tech need to understand that we don’t line up our timeline with the real world’s, and the real world has been around a lot longer than 2020 years. Either way, this is a fantasy server. We’re like Lord of the Rings or Elder Scrolls and stuff like that. So yeah. In my opinion, guns don’t belong on this server. That’s my personal opinion. Don’t like the idea. 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHITECUS 4788 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Firearms have existed simultaneously alongside bows in the same settings within both fantasy and reality. One example of a fictional world employing this in a balanced manner is Warhammer Fantasy. Many players on LotC have taken inspiration from this setting where gunpowder weaponry is deployed with and against bows, crossbows, magic, and monsters. One historical example is eastern Europe between the 16th and 18th centuries, where Russians, Poles, Turks, and many more saw bullets and arrows on the same field. Haense, which has a deep history tracing from old Raevir lore including cossacks, could find direct inspiration from these real settings. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will (TauFirewarrior) 2466 Share Posted April 19, 2020 Just now, Arundlt said: Here is my thing, despite magic itself being incredibly boring and useless, to the point where people aren’t even scared or amazed by it anymore in roleplay, humans can’t even learn it properly. Humans live incredibly short lives, and while getting T5 in any magic takes around 20+ years, it will leave the user with a physically weak body. Humans legit are stuck to only doing slice of life roleplay. There is zero inventing that we can do without hitting a techlock, and opening up flintlocks is the only viable option for us to move forward. This isn’t even a debate at this point, it should be straight facts that someone has re-discovered the uses of gunpowder if we legit just raided a fort with grenades and explosive powder in it. Ridiculous. Thank you for engaging your brain, full disclosure that most non-humans do not learn magic and fewer still only learn combat magic. So framing the debate of “Well the non-human communities have this magic” when its hardly comparable to the destructive force of firearms. However I am as prior mentioned open to the debate should there be proper systems put in place to limit or not allow insta one shot kills that would be powergaming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epistile 856 Share Posted April 19, 2020 1 minute ago, LotsOfMuffins said: If you want guns, go to School RP. yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonian 14254 Share Posted April 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, LotsOfMuffins said: No. It’s a fantasy server. Anyone who says we’re nearing the 1800s and should get more tech need to understand that we don’t line up our timeline with the real world’s, and the real world has been around a lot longer than 2020 years. Either way, this is a fantasy server. We’re like Lord of the Rings or Elder Scrolls and stuff like that. If you want guns, go to School RP. Elder Scrolls which has airships btw. And no the server timeline doesn’t line up with the real world timeline. Because we’ve had magic guns, magic robots, magic atomic freaking bombs. We’ve gone to 21st level tech and beyond with magic, but we can’t even reinvent cannons(which we had back in 2012 btw) without magic. If you guys seriously cared about the “original theme” of the server, all these magic abominations. Johannesburg literally getting hiroshima’d ruined the setting of the server far more than reskinned crossbows(also been around in 2012) ever would. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luciloo 2680 Share Posted April 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Arundlt said: Humans live incredibly short lives, and while getting T5 in any magic takes around 20+ years, it will leave the user with a physically weak body. Deity magics do not have this effect. Certain dark magics have other effects. Small nitpick, but personally I think human Paladins would be a cool thing to see on the server. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedeadoor 109 Share Posted April 19, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Esterlen said: snip Ok so my response is largely in part to the OP and the whole topic, though Esterlen makes a point here I’d like to address. First, I think one of the biggest concerns on this topic is flintlocks being added and being used unfairly and being used in “cringe” ways. We already have instances where people emote bows in such ways. I don’t think anybody wants to be rping their character walking down a road when “Billy ‘F*ck you’ Johnson” the bandit comes along to emote shooting your character for being an Imperial, or worse, an elf. As to address Esterlen’s point more specifically, at least the one part, in which he says “there is no one solid theme of LOTC”, I see that point but I disagree in this argument. The levels of fantasy and realism are mixed in a very unique way but I think it’s very reasonable to say we have unspoken lines at the least. Will LOTC ever have cars and trains? Gatling guns? Well I hope not, that’s clearly not the era we have established and I don’t believe it’s the kind of RP that’s expected here. While technically, we could lead LOTC in that direction, I don’t believe many want to. I could be wrong but that’s from my experience. With that, I think another big fear is just that, where flintlocks and/or muskets would then lead to. Would we see votes eventually for even more advanced tech? Better guns and so on? With the argument of “Well, we have flintlocks already, so”. Flintlocks are a step into a new tech level, where as right now, we are fantasy and medieval, magic and swords. So where I stand is, sure, add flintlocks and/or muskets if the community wants them but I’d only want to see them under certain terms: 1: They must be used in a strict manner and not let up to freedom of the user. There is a response in this thread with how rolling could work with them, which seems well thought out and fair 2: We have a line of tech we don’t cross in LOTC. I don’t really wish to see LOTC turn more modern than flintlocks tech wise. There could be some exceptions for things perhaps but weaponry is pretty significant. Would it hurt LOTC though if someone invents some magical toaster? I mean, not really. Cars, planes, trains, fully automatic weapons, these are things that would dramatically change the RP of LoTC, obviously and these are the things I wouldn’t want to see ever. Flintlocks are a step into Edited April 19, 2020 by Thedeadoor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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