Your View - Firearms on LotC

[Will (TauFirewarrior) 2466]

Just now, argonian said:

if we’re speaking mechanically, crossbows already allow pre-load

 

if we’re speaking in CRP, you just ban pre-loading as powergaming the same way we banned pre-loading for crossbows waaaay back in 2012

 

people just want muskets and stuff for flavour. mechanically they should be represented as crossbows and therefore function the same as them. in CRP they should be given strict rules to make them basically the same as crossbows are in CRP right now. then they can co-exist with swords and other weapons the same way they do in world of warcraft and warhammer. 

Not speaking mechanically because lets face it most mechanical combat on this server is dead and its just gonna continue to die due to the server instability. The only thing that matters in this debate is CRP, since that is basically the only way conflict will occur from now on. I already stated my position of just put some rules and buff magic a bit because despite your comment about “Sole Elven Mage”, as far as I can see Magic is absolutely gimped, but at the same time I would like the standard of magic to be raised to make magic magical.

[Harri 4815]

all the people saying ‘guns cant exist in fantasy’ have an extremely slim view of what fantasy can entail

 

the reason guns are bad is literally because i dont trust the mod team to take an active and smart way at balancing the system for it

 

anyone remember ggt abusing medeusculors (the magic guns) before and just causing the entire server to go into chaos as people did 1 shot drive bys

[argonian 14254]

1 minute ago, Epistile said:

I’ve never even seen a reason for crossbows to be on the server originally, and I don’t think it should’ve scurried past the techlock.

Are you for real? People have literally been RP’ing crossbows since day one of the server. 

 

You guys are seriously going around talking about how we’re “ruining the theme” of the server, and then you complain about things that have been part of the server far longer than you have. 

[BenevolentManacles 2232]

If you don’t want firearms, you don’t have to use them.

 

We can easily make sure any combat is nerfed in the same way we nerf magic usage through specific emotes and power levels.

 

It’s fun RP for the groups that want to use them. It’s flavor RP, exciting and new. 

 

[Bawg 494]

My Opinion:
I believe extending the techlock to include cannons, flintlocks, steam engines, and possibly grenades would definitely be beneficial to the server and add roleplay to the server. A solution to stop technology from getting out of hand is to just stick the techlock a little bit further out. In other words, “you can now move 5 feet forward, but we are stopping it there”. If you can techlock once, you could always do it again and stop us from getting high tech vehicles or nuclear bombs.
 

More roleplay options for growth on LoTC:
Imagine the roleplay opportunities that people could have where they have to study this strange new material, roll for chances to experiment and see what makes it tick, the weapons start out crude and backfire often, then they start getting more sophisticated as we play with the idea more. We could techlock before we get them sophisticated until we figure out how much further we would like to go. Event team members could have more options to create events without having to solely rely on magic or bandit encounters

Make Guns CRP and Not a Mechanic:
A big argument I have heard is people getting this mechanically implemented in the server which in my opinion would be too time costly and take efforts away from more important things needed on the server. The best option would be to be able to use it in CRP and have a specified group or person that would produce these items that have been approved . Another option would be to have only Event Team Members cautiously distribute small rewards like a bag of 5 musketballs, so the player would have only 5 opportunities to use the 5 musketballs and on top of that have to roll for it to not backfire on you. 

TL;DR
Lets move the techlock a bit further then put it down again for a few new technologies. If you are able to place the techlock once, you can do it again and wait another 5 years before moving it again.
It would create roleplay for people, create more freedom for the event team members, and could be a new fresh experience for the server.
It should not be implemented as a mechanic, but it should be a heavily monitored CRP item. Items should be difficult and require a high roll to achieve the expected outcome.

[Legoboy7984 3155]

Gonna comment one more time for another reason instead of just editing it. Personally, it’s already bad enough with people wearings wigs on the fantasy medieval RP server and bringing factories around. I DO NOT wanna see people with wigs doing firing lines. Also, this will just be another plugin that may lead the server being more lag and etc. The people that mostly wants the guns/muskets are the Crownlands in Oren because they’re the only ones going with the wigs, factories, and etc. 

 

I’ve been playing on this server since 2013, and we seriously don’t need guns. Why ruin the servers main goal of it being a fantasy medieval roleplay server because people thinks the LoTC years are IRL? The worst part about this is once the server years hi the 1900s to 2000s people will be asking for machine guns, cars, and etc. People has been asking for guns for years and the Admins always said no. Now since it has gathered more momentum and being shoved in your faces once more you’re slowly starting to bend your backbone on it. My recommendation will be stick to what server is meant to be and say NO to guns.

[Harri 4815]

1 minute ago, BenevolentManacles said:

If you don’t want firearms, you don’t have to use them.

 

We can easily make sure any combat is nerfed in the same way we nerf magic usage through specific emotes and power levels.

 

It’s fun RP for the groups that want to use them. It’s flavor RP, exciting and new. 

 

really poor argument, as the people who dont want them can choose not to use them, but cant choose to not interact with the ones pointed at them

[argonian 14254]

1 minute ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said:

Not speaking mechanically because lets face it most mechanical combat on this server is dead and its just gonna continue to die due to the server instability. The only thing that matters in this debate is CRP, since that is basically the only way conflict will occur from now on.

That’s just not true and it shows that you’re in a bubble. Human nations, and the Orcs too I’m sure, still regularly have PVP tourneys and events – almost daily. Every day there’s a raid somewhere that’s settled by PVP. Every day there’s a fight in Helena – and many of those end in PVP even now. Even at the height of 1.14 chunk lag they did. 

 

1 minute ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said:

I already stated my position of just put some rules and buff magic a bit because despite your comment about “Sole Elven Mage”, as far as I can see Magic is absolutely gimped, but at the same time I would like the standard of magic to be raised to make magic magical.

Ok agreed. 

[ReveredOwl 5639]

Just now, Harrison said:

really poor argument, as the people who dont want them can choose not to use them, but cant choose to not interact with the ones pointed at them

Same with magic tbh. The powergaming argument is incredibly stupid. If people powergame you report them like you do normally.

[Harri 4815]

Just now, ReveredOwl said:

Same with magic tbh. The powergaming argument is incredibly stupid. If people powergame you report them like you do normally.

yeah as ive said above multiple times i agree that its fine to add them

 

the only downside is that EVERYONE will want to use them because ‘’’’’OMG GUNS’’’’’’ and do gang gang drive by roleplay gonna be really epic

[JuliusAakerlund 2402]

I personally don’t like firearms but i’d also fight to the death for your right to have them if that’s what the server wants. That is the responsibility we take on as staff members. We are here to serve the community and to do right by them. That’s just my piece on it ?‍♂️

[_Jandy_ 3519]

To keep things short- Everybody says that firearms are on par with crossbows or arbalests, then they should just use one of those. The entire discussion boils down to a preference of server thematic if the topic of balance is obsolete. Given that the technology is simply non-magical then we shouldn’t hold it up to magics and the sort and say ‘If x community can have y magic then why can’t we have guns?’

Do firearms fit in with the medieval thematic that people know?

I’d say no, when you see movies or shows take place in a typical medieval setting you really don’t see guns. Lord of the Rings to start with, given that’s what new players expect when they begin. Game of Thrones. Robin Hood. Anything about the crusades or even King Arthur. A movie like The King (highly suggested). Even games like Mordhau or For Honor or Bannerlord or The Witcher don’t have any firearms afaik. Really the only game I see with firearms is Mount and Blade, which in their wiki they quickly compare them to being like the crossbow. 

I don’t think guns fit and hope not to see them implemented.

Spoiler

Though if they are added for some ungodly reason then they should be allowed to scale up according to who wields them, meaning that olog hand cannons? Yeah, they’re just cannons in hands.

 

[Pureimp10 5691]

there have already been systems, player written systems, that have been used to rp firearms (though those people did get banned RIP yoppl and maly for your duel). these systems worked because they made sense irp, and can easily be moderated by anyone, players or gm team

 

the “this can be powergamed to ****” argument can be applied to everything on this server. you can (and people do) powergame crossbows. you can (and people do) powergame magic and medicine and swordplay and armor and parkour and exhaustion, etc etc

[monkeypoacher 8055]

I don’t believe the addition of firearms would actually disturb the “fantasy medieval” setting of our server. Firearms do not need to transform LoTC’s fantasy world in the way they transformed real-world history. Firearms do not need to be more powerful than magic, or elven archery, or whatever. Your group does not need to accept firearms. If you would like to roleplay a particular setting, there’s no reason that setting can’t exist somewhere on Arcas, just because someone somewhere else is roleplaying a powdered wig or a musket. 

 

Swap out “firearms” for any other technology and there’s the argument against the techlock. There’s no reason any given technology has to be roleplayed by the whole server. It’s much worse to force everyone to roleplay someone’s narrow conception of “fantasy medieval” than it is to let everyone have their own interpretation of it. Could you imagine the furor from certain players if their anachronistic medical roleplay was tech-locked, and they had to permakill their characters from minor wounds getting infected?

[Cracker 4570]

I will agree that any firearm RP would need an intense moderation or even soft techlock process to trial. I’m not interested in seeing the existing bandit communities being tied with firearms – but my standing issue is that players are actively banned for tastefully roleplaying these things within their own communities.

 

Part of what makes LotC great is its lack of standard. Unlike the countless pretenders – we don’t have any meaningful server canon to base off of. If we were a Lord of the Rings server, a Game of Thrones server, a Berserk server, or a Warhammer Fantasy server, we would have died out ages ago, as our mechanics aren’t interesting enough to justify being trapped within an IP. Our success comes from our open creative platform. A player on LotC can take anything from the world they find fascinating, and flesh out their own vision of it on the server, to test it and see if its creatively successful. Up until maybe 2014, this was an immensely liberal standard. I remember roleplay a 12^th century knight and 14^th century Slavic boyar against the Warhammer 40k-esque Teutonic Order, complete with death spires, power armor, chainsaws, and weapons of mass destruction. As much as those conflicts were OOCly aligned as well as RPly – I’d never had wanted those players banned for attempting a standard different from my own. If you disagreed with a standard, you came up with a roleplay reason why to distance yourself from it, not demand bans and staff investigation.

 

It was immensely more fun, nuanced, and original than the Dreadlander conflicts I roleplayed post tech-lock, where the same cycle of medieval bandits/pagans invade in coalition with the same reference images for years on end. I want to capture that spirit of innovation again, and I would want to see it done thoughtfully and tastefully, and above all else, not punishable by staff mandate, because I think anything less is insulting to what LotC is fundamentally about.