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IS IT ME, OR WARS DON'T FEEL THE SAME?


MadOne
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Good post and it brings up a lot of valid points.  I'm a SOL role-player and really I have rarely taken part in wars.  But I do have to say, the general lack of conflict (or at least the absence of a sense of conflict) going on around the map has even begun to seep into our communities as well.  While SOL people rarely take part in conflict itself, having it going on in the background does also affect to flow of every day things. 

 

Overarching story lines shape what we talk about over tea, the type of events we put on, the way we RP within our communities and honestly one can only talk about the weather or how so-and-so's kid is doing so many times before it grows stale.  Gossiping about what nations may fall to another, hosting events where we learn how to make emergency kits in case of evacuation, talking in hushed voices about when soldiers may descend on our homes is fun.

As a leader in a community that thrives on SOL roleplay I have found myself having to insert some sort of conflict into our village just so we have something to interact with.  While getting raided every day isn't the most fun, it at least gave us something to do and sorta rally around; with the crackdown on conflict rules I can't remember the last time we got raided or bandited.  Even Halflings love a good world-changing war every now and then, and it feels as if the days where those actually happened are behind us.

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44 minutes ago, Harold said:

I’ll keep this short as it’s 6am.

 

The players who create the most activity, roleplay, etc are not the PvP goons and nation leadership who jump around the square. Removing nations by way of war, does not align to slice of life roleplayers and they do leave in droves when these things happen, have happened in the past. It also makes wars extremely toxic, especially when the war for example is rooted within race. 
 

I would agree with you that it stagnates roleplay, there is no progression without consequential war. This was always my case when me and @Telanir discussed this topic, but in reality - this is the kicker - the slice of life roleplayers vote, pay the bills, and create a roleplay atmosphere. You remove them from the equation due to toxic clicking wars, you can see why we are where we are now.

 

I may not like it, but I definitely understand it. 

 

 

I initially leaned against responding to this thread, but since my fellow old-head weighed in with something convincing and more or less along the lines of how I think - I figured why not and hope to contribute something worth considering in addition to what Harold said:

 

When I recently returned, I talked to a few old friends who I've met on the server to refresh my memory about rules especially related to combat. Combat roleplay has always been my bread-and-butter and what has been most 'fun' for me; conflict typically gives me a lot to work with when I am creatively writing. I learned that wars on the server had been restrained primarily because of the Out-of-Character antagonism groups of people showed each other in the last war (name escapes me, forgive my boomer brain).

 

I've only come back to play a meagre character for hobby fun, avoiding any form of out-of-character "administration" if you will. I remember all too well the first powderkeg which, if I had to be honest and since hindsight is 20/20, led me to leave the first player-group I formed and led - the Teutonic Order. A lot of the same behaviors peaked when we had "conquered" and split the Kingdom of Oren in half towards the end of the 1.0 map: OOC antagonism, verbal (over Teamspeak3 at the time) & written obnoxious & harassing behavior, passive-aggressive forum posts that thinly veiled contempt or at least attempts to annoy others, sophistry in the form of appealing to "it is just roleplay" when people admitted behind closed doors that they were doing x in an attempt to harass or annoy Player Y. I left because I simply didn't have the interest nor the willingness to put myself mentally through trying to handle the increasingly hostile environment as a player and some of this antagonism I began to reflect back on others. A lot of players tend to look at that part of my past with rose-tinted goggles, admiring what our guys (Teutonic Order) managed to do, but not realizing that it had a lot of repercussions and negative effects.

 

Those of us who do combat roleplay, whether preferring PvP or emote-combat (I personally prefer PvP unbeknownst to some, even if I am not the best at it), have to understand that though there are a number of players like us and are like-minded in our preference - we share a server with a whole host of others who prefer other types of roleplay. I personally don't do 'slice of life' roleplay, but I am not above making room for people who do prefer that. I personally don't do marriage/family roleplay, but I am not going to push those kinds of players away. I think understanding this as a player will help mend at least some of the broken fences as it pertains to people "not wanting consequences" on the server.

 

I think if you are wanting to introduce consequential conflict, coming to some out-of-character handshake before starting conflict may get both staff to back off from intervening and overall rebuild trust. It it something that I am mulling over in my head as I get involved with the current war.

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3 hours ago, MailC3p said:

tfw   person not fighting in war and who's  nation has not been raided during this  war complains  about lack of war.

 

I don't know, I've been having fun. Not sure what you mean when you say there's a lack of road banditry - we've had skirms on the roads almost daily for the past week. GMs have intentionally removed the cooldowns on roads to encourage banditry. The Grand King of Urguan and the AC of Oren were both kidnapped by the enemy in huge knockout pvp battles.

 

I think you're speaking way too prematurely about a "lack of consequences" with this current war, which has barely even started. A tile is up for grabs, attackers can continue to drive towards Providence or take more land if they win (and cough up the money to maintain their conquering armies.) I think it's super revealing when you complain about things you haven't tried, like playing a "conquering horselord" ( @DeepDarkSamuraiis already RPing a pastoral nomadic culture - why don't you hit him up?)

 

If the server seems stagnant, if the only thing you and your 30 guys can seem to do is join a nation and listen to someone else tell you what to think, that's because it's what players choose. Players choose to join a nation, choose to roleplay nobility and intrigue their way into comfortable positions as the ruling cliques. This is all a self-perpetuating system that, as you said, can't be fixed from the top down. You have to choose to break out of it, choose to do something else.

 

If you really wanted you could forge out and try to create your own new niche. The staff have made it difficult, but not impossible; Yong Ping and Elysium are examples. 

 

This war has generally been pretty sportsmanlike and open. I have high hopes for it moving the story of LoTC, which has been utterly stagnant for the past 4 years, slowly forward. I really don't get the concern besides a vague sense that "things aren't as fun as they used to be" but I mean of course. W2emps happened. A lot of players quit because of it. The people who were in power after the war happened are the people who are in power now, they've just traded hats.

 

Players have chosen to make the server stagnant and repetitive, because they want to sit on thrones in fancy castles with their own special titles and heraldry ripped from old dead nations, and they don't like giving any of that up.

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And incredibly insightful take I never would have expected, Mad. I disagree with some of your points, but agree with the general argument that wars on LotC have been completely sanitized. A group shouldn't be bullied off the server, but what we have now is akin to lightly prodding each other on the shoulder even though there's a major war going on.

 

@HaroldConflict and the consequences that stem from it are the lifeblood of the server. War can be bad, but tea RP can never be good.

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Short version: Yes. They don't feel the same.

 

I feel they're less toxic. And I'm so happy about it.

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lack of road banditing…. have you worked oren roads after 4pm EST lately?

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War of the two emps 🤤

 

the end of glory

 

the beginning of poop

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Most rules on LOTC stem from people being irresponsible with the freedoms they were once given. If enough people abuse said freedom, then there are rules added to combat or remove it.

 

Maybe back in the war of 2 emperors we could do all of what you said responsibility, but now a lot of the time both parties are trying to get by with shady shit more often than not.  Can't play with your toys? They get taken away. 

 

Kind of neutral on this issue as I believe conflict is needed to incite change, but i also know that wars conducted in good faith are few and far between. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Duke's War anybody?

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10 hours ago, Gaius Marius said:

 

I initially leaned against responding to this thread, but since my fellow old-head weighed in with something convincing and more or less along the lines of how I think - I figured why not and hope to contribute something worth considering in addition to what Harold said:

 

When I recently returned, I talked to a few old friends who I've met on the server to refresh my memory about rules especially related to combat. Combat roleplay has always been my bread-and-butter and what has been most 'fun' for me; conflict typically gives me a lot to work with when I am creatively writing. I learned that wars on the server had been restrained primarily because of the Out-of-Character antagonism groups of people showed each other in the last war (name escapes me, forgive my boomer brain).

 

I've only come back to play a meagre character for hobby fun, avoiding any form of out-of-character "administration" if you will. I remember all too well the first powderkeg which, if I had to be honest and since hindsight is 20/20, led me to leave the first player-group I formed and led - the Teutonic Order. A lot of the same behaviors peaked when we had "conquered" and split the Kingdom of Oren in half towards the end of the 1.0 map: OOC antagonism, verbal (over Teamspeak3 at the time) & written obnoxious & harassing behavior, passive-aggressive forum posts that thinly veiled contempt or at least attempts to annoy others, sophistry in the form of appealing to "it is just roleplay" when people admitted behind closed doors that they were doing x in an attempt to harass or annoy Player Y. I left because I simply didn't have the interest nor the willingness to put myself mentally through trying to handle the increasingly hostile environment as a player and some of this antagonism I began to reflect back on others. A lot of players tend to look at that part of my past with rose-tinted goggles, admiring what our guys (Teutonic Order) managed to do, but not realizing that it had a lot of repercussions and negative effects.

 

Those of us who do combat roleplay, whether preferring PvP or emote-combat (I personally prefer PvP unbeknownst to some, even if I am not the best at it), have to understand that though there are a number of players like us and are like-minded in our preference - we share a server with a whole host of others who prefer other types of roleplay. I personally don't do 'slice of life' roleplay, but I am not above making room for people who do prefer that. I personally don't do marriage/family roleplay, but I am not going to push those kinds of players away. I think understanding this as a player will help mend at least some of the broken fences as it pertains to people "not wanting consequences" on the server.

 

I think if you are wanting to introduce consequential conflict, coming to some out-of-character handshake before starting conflict may get both staff to back off from intervening and overall rebuild trust. It it something that I am mulling over in my head as I get involved with the current war.

 

This is an inexorable fact. My friends Hedonism, Defy, and I played during Two Emps. It was fun in the way texting your vicious ex-girlfriend who cuckolded you is fun. Maybe, yeah, you get to make her mald. But is it really worth the time? 

 

Did I get satisfaction from bleeding "enemy" players of valuable time and resources? Yes.

Most people do.

 

And that is why LoTC suffers with regards to war, all tech issues aside.

A competitive game ought to have competitive mechanics.

 

LoTC has none of those things. So the game becomes about psychological warfare and rally numbers. 

War is Zzzzz. 

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The staff I know that are pushing for competent war rules and conflict on the server is @Mio  @itdontmatta @GMRO @Mirvam Based individuals on the server, bless them. I just hope their dreams aren't shot down by staff who think conflict is bad and "its not a factions server"

Funny how the server has had the highest numbers recently because of the Oren Urguan War.

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14 hours ago, MailC3p said:

tfw   person not fighting in war and who's  nation has not been raided during this  war complains  about lack of war.

Mad is a fantastic war machine who knows what he is on about. I can agree with this post, though I understand why staff don't want nations being conquered, for fear of entire nation playerbases quitting, but the thing is everyone is addicted and will come back in a few months regardless and rebuild. 

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In wars now you get a free participation medal for doing nothing and I hate it.

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